Baptist Communion?

[PeterT]

Hello all, first time poster here, although I’ve lurked for a while.

I want to point out that some Baptist congregations consider it a “Celebration of the Lord’s supper.” They consider it a memorial service, not “communion” in the traditional sense and literal definition.

I don’t know if that changes it for a Catholic. Can a Catholic participate in an inter-denominational memorial service?

Yes it does, and I think this might be the reason why her pastor said it would not be a sin if she chose to participate in it.

The key here is that both she and the Baptist church DOES NOT consider this rite to be equivalent to the actual and real Holy Communion as practiced by the Catholic Church. It would be wrong for her to participate if the Baptist Church did think it was an equivalent rite. And it would be very wrong if she believed that it was equivalent. But because neither she nor that Baptist Church believe that their communion service is the same (or anything even remotely close to what the Catholic Church’s Rite of Holy Communion is), there’s no harm therefore no foul and no sin as her pastor had advised her.

But since she’s uncomfortable in receiving this bread and juice from the Baptist Church, she should continue to abstain from it since that’s a perfectly acceptable course of action, regardless what other members of that Baptist church might think.

 

[sudy]

Soul freedom relates to baptism and the Lord’s Supper in that a person’s participation in each ought to be voluntary, never forced. Baptists have consistently advocated freedom of religion, insisting that no one be coerced to participate in any religious act, such as baptism or the Lord’s Supper.

source: https://www.baptistdistinctives.org/resources/articles/two-ordinances-baptism-and-the-lords-supper/

 

[lilypadrees]

thistle:

It is NOT permitted for a Catholic to receive Communion in a Protestant church.

Do you have that statement on “auto-type?” And, yep, another like from lilypadrees! And, you say this is getting boring about 25 posts ago. LOL!

We’ll repeat it as many times as is necessary, @rondirect. Since you claim to believe everything the Church believes and teaches, why are you unable to accept the truth in this matter? So what if her priest said it wasn’t a sin to receive in her husband’s church. If he truly said what the OP says he said, he is wrong. And she is right in her decision to continue not receiving and to pray for everyone in her husband’s church.

I agree with every Catholic who speaks the truth about our beloved Church’s teachings. When you speak truth about the Church’s teachings instead of trying to find excuses for someone to disobey them, I will give you the affirmative “like” as well.

 

[thistle]

Do you have that statement on “auto-type?” And, yep, another like from lilypadrees! And, you say this is getting boring about 25 posts ago. LOL!

I will keep saying it until you get it into your head that a Catholic may not receive Communion in any Protestant church no matter what.
THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS!

 

[sudy]

ccc 1400

Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders."239 It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory."240

 

[rondirect]

I will keep saying it until you get it into your head that a Catholic may not receive Communion in any Protestant church no matter what.
THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS!

This is getting more interesting than anticipated. First of all, my post was in jest. I have been respectfully posting to both of you without malice, but it is apparent that you and Miss Lily have taken this on as a “fight” until I learn the truth. Thistle: you can say your auto-response all you want, but to say “until you get it into your head,” is rather putting yourself in a superiority class for which no PIP belongs. Your shouting, “THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS!” is wrong.

From the Canon Law on Sacraments:

§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

Now we can discuss which protestant churches have valid “sacraments” until the cows come home, but many here have spoken up regarding their “valid” communion already. In my research, this subject is one of the biggest issues facing the church today; so here we are.

I have also sent you a portion of an article from the US Catholic that states, “In the end, this may be fulfilling the “spirit” of canon law while going against the letter.” However, you and Miss Lily refuse to respond to that article. Why? Because it is not fall within your “NO EXCEPTIONS” statement as does the excerpt from Canon Law on Sacraments above.

I could say that I will continue repeating these EXCEPTIONS until you get it into your head that there are, but I won’t say that! LOL! Now, just for the record, this last sentence was in jest!

 

[rondirect]

We’ll repeat it as many times as is necessary, @rondirect. Since you claim to believe everything the Church believes and teaches, why are you unable to accept the truth in this matter? So what if her priest said it wasn’t a sin to receive in her husband’s church. If he truly said what the OP says he said, he is wrong. And she is right in her decision to continue not receiving and to pray for everyone in her husband’s church.

I agree with every Catholic who speaks the truth about our beloved Church’s teachings. When you speak truth about the Church’s teachings instead of trying to find excuses for someone to disobey them, I will give you the affirmative “like” as well.

“We’ll repeat?” Is this a conspiracy? LOL!

I know you read my response to your friend, so you know my answer to “why are you unable to accept the truth in this matter?” Truth?" Again, I have cited a portion of an article from the US Catholic, but you, also, have not addressed it and as stated to thistle, I understand why. I also added a portion of the Canon Law on Sacraments, so the " NO EXCEPTIONS" rule is not truth.

I have repeatedly responded to you with respect and love as a fellow Catholic, but don’t understand why you have this bone to pick with me regarding this subject. To say, “the Church’s teachings instead of trying to find excuses for someone to disobey them,” is rather disrespectful. I was only trying to help the OP, just like you were. I have my reasons as stated by now 2 exceptions, you have yours; and, I truly respect that and those of thistles.

As for the “likes:” I just found it amusing and my response was just joking around. I am not playing a game to rack up “likes.” LOL! Since you used “We’ll,” I’ll use “Both.” Both of you need to lighten up and we can have a civilized conversation. There is no need to shout or make accusations. If either of you have taken anything I said as offensive, my intent was not to be taken that way, but apologize anyway.

Peace,
Ron

 

[Gorgias]

Disciple:

Another thought. A little off topic but somewhat related. I believe a Catholic chaplain can serve communion to a protestant soldier and a Catholic soldier can receive communion from a protestant chaplain? Is this true?

Not only Chaplains in the military, but Chaplains in hospitals, hospices, nursing facilities, etc are trained to serve all Christians.

Hang on a second, before we go too far down this rabbit hole:

• military chaplains are expected to minister to all
• the U.S. military doesn’t speak to intercommunion, per se (but correct me if I’m wrong!)
• but… the military doesn’t require a minister to perform actions contrary to his Church’s rules. There have been instances in which a chaplain’s chain of command expressed a desire that may have run counter to a denomination’s guidelines, but AFAIK, hasn’t enforced it. (The USN and USAF come to mind.)

Anyway, it’s not my understanding that the military requires Catholic priests to distribute communion to non-Catholics. What an individual Catholic does, in services s/he attends, is up to their own conscience, as s/he sees it.

 

[rondirect]

Could be. But, the point being the law is not specific and other denominations (typical of Canon and GIRM) will argue that their Communion is valid. Also, it refutes the animate shouting of “NO EXCEPTIONS.”

In my research on this topic, it is true that this is a big issue within in Catholic Church today; a lot of division.

 

[Gorgias]

Now we can discuss which protestant churches have valid “sacraments”

We can? Isn’t the answer is simple “none”? (I mean, in an exceptional case, a particular priest may validly confect the Eucharist, but that only happens when a Catholic priest leaves the Church and becomes a cleric in a Protestant denomination. That doesn’t mean that a “Protestant church” has valid sacraments, though.) One last caveat: all may baptize validly; however, we’re not talking about baptism here.

In my research, this subject is one of the biggest issues facing the church today; so here we are.

It is one of the thorniest issues in ecumenical dialogue. In fact, the bishops of Germany have again started asking the question, “is there a situation in which non-Catholics might receive the Eucharist?”, but that discussion hasn’t yet yielded answers. So, we find ourselves at a situation of ‘status quo’: Catholics may only receive sacraments from a non-Catholic cleric in extraordinary cases, and non-Catholic Christians may only receive sacraments in likewise similar situations. (One other situation: if a Catholic bishop deems it warranted, then he may allow it. That’s how the bishops of Germany are framing up their question, currently.)

I have also sent you a portion of an article from the US Catholic that states, “In the end, this may be fulfilling the “spirit” of canon law while going against the letter.”

Yep. “Against the letter.” At least the author admits it. But, since the question is the reception of something that isn’t the Eucharist by Catholics, and canon law does not even permit that for any exceptional case, it’s difficult to see how one might make a “spirit of the law” case.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

There was an interesting piece today in CRUX about intercommunion. The Pope spoke to it the other day, or rather he spoke to the document that the German Bishops produced, opening the door to intercommunion. It is my understanding that the Vatican did not approve the German document, and we learned from the Pope that it was because it was not fleshed out enough, and that he was in favor of each local Bishop making the decision rather than having the entire province/jurisdiction making a blanket rule. But all in all, the Pope is fine with the concept of intercommunion in certain cases.

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2018/06...ishop-should-make-the-call-on-intercommunion/

 

[TexasPhilPeeno]

I am a Catholic Chaplain Assistant for the military. All the chaplains I assist are protestants of different beliefs. Sometimes I attend their service if it does not conflict with my other duties. Many of those pastors have good solid Christian message. I was asked one time why I didn’t take their communion. I was honest and told them that I don’t believe that their communion is the true body and blood, soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. I asked them if they believed that it is. We all know the answer to that. I don’t think I’ve offended any one but I did get some inquiry about the Catholic mass.

Funny story: I was helping with the set up of a Protestant service and I was arranging the “crackers and grape juice”. One of the of chaplains asked me if what I am doing is okay and that I will not burst in to flames. Of course I said “no”. Besides me helping them I may be able to convince them to convert to the one true church. We both laugh so hard that people start to stare.

 

[rondirect]

Totally agree. The issue as I see it (again, the Canon and the GIRM with ambiguity at times), there is no “list” of valid denominations that the Catholic Church recognizes. So, we go to our pastor and ask. Do they really know? Usually, the easy out is for them to say, “no problem, no sin, go…” And, so this communication continues to circle about with no real answer.

 

[rondirect]

It is one of the thorniest issues in ecumenical dialogue.

Yep. This issue is so typical like I have pointed out when referring to the Canon and GIRM. I just love it when the GIRM states, we should do this, unless…then we may do that…then, for pastoral reasons, it’s OK to do this!

 

[rondirect]

Thank you for sharing this. If you read my previous posts to others regarding the hard line against this and the “confusion” surrounding it: who’s right, who’s wrong, is there any exceptions, hopefully, we can all get a clearing understanding of what this issue.

 

[Pup7]

ComplineSanFran:

Disciple:

Another thought. A little off topic but somewhat related. I believe a Catholic chaplain can serve communion to a protestant soldier and a Catholic soldier can receive communion from a protestant chaplain? Is this true?

Not only Chaplains in the military, but Chaplains in hospitals, hospices, nursing facilities, etc are trained to serve all Christians.

Hang on a second, before we go too far down this rabbit hole:

• military chaplains are expected to minister to all
• the U.S. military doesn’t speak to intercommunion, per se (but correct me if I’m wrong!)
• but… the military doesn’t require a minister to perform actions contrary to his Church’s rules. There have been instances in which a chaplain’s chain of command expressed a desire that may have run counter to a denomination’s guidelines, but AFAIK, hasn’t enforced it. (The USN and USAF come to mind.)

Anyway, it’s not my understanding that the military requires Catholic priests to distribute communion to non-Catholics. What an individual Catholic does, in services s/he attends, is up to their own conscience, as s/he sees it.

Spot on.

(AFAIK, they can’t enforce it and a chaplain cannot be forced to go against his or her denomination’s teachings. The other bonus for chaplains is all of them are basically covered by a sort of modified seal of confession: ANYTHING anyone, not just active duty but dependents/beneficiaries as well, tells to a chaplain cannot be repeated and cannot be forced to be revealed. Doesn’t have to be during confession and the chaplain doesn’t have to be Catholic. I tell folks all the time - if you’re not going to go to mental health, go talk to a chaplain - it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with taking care of you.)

 

[rondirect]

Hey Pup7. I knew you where going to respond when I read “military chaplain!” LOL! Hope all is well on the music front.

 

[Pup7]

You know me - wanting correct information and staying until the last note, as always.

 

[rondirect]

Yeah, thanks, letting me hang out there to dry! Ha! This subject is so controversial. All is good!

 

[lilypadrees]

My view of that article is that you misinterpreted the meaning of its contents. That’s all I have to say about it since another poster explained the true meaning so eloquently.

There is nothing disrespectful about stating the truth, @rondirect. You keep encouraging the OP to participate in and receive a symbol only Communion based on the excuse that her priest said it wasn’t a sin to receive in her husband’s church despite the fact that a number of Catholic posters have stated that we are not to receive in their churches.

It’s disrespectful to continue to contradict Church teaching. Yes, her priest stated it isn’t a sin to receive in her husband’s church. My priests have all said we are notto receive Protestant churches.

As Catholics, are we to listen to a priest who tells us what we want to hear or to the priest who tells us the truth? The answer, of course, is we are to listen to the priest who tells us the truth.