Baptist considering Catholic faith, role of music

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Sugarloaf

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I’m not sure if this is the right category, this is my first post.

My husband and I consider ourselves Baptist, but for various reasons we have recently felt even more confused as to where we belong. My husband graduated a Christian Bible college with a degree in Worship ministry, and he was the music and worship pastor at several churches before we officially left the ministry over 5 years ago. Since then we have floundered, unable to find our place in a church and him being continually confused as to what to do with his gift of music. It seems every church we join isn’t interested in utilizing his gifts, they don’t need him as they already have their teams and are not interested in anything he has to offer. This is a big deal for my husband, who finds special connection in worship when he is offering his gifts for the Lords use.

We are becoming increasingly disillusioned by the evangelical church. So many are only looking for worship leaders to lead the congregation into what seems a blatant mockery of what worship should be. We cannot accept this, and yet the churches who are not willing to compromise in this way often take the other approach where no effort is made in music because it is deemed unimportant, secondary to preaching.

My question for Catholics is, in practice does the Catholic Church uphold the gift of music and seek to use it in worship? Are members who are gifted and want to serve appreciated and encouraged or regulated to seasonally choirs only? I am aware each parish might handle this issue differently, but on the whole what is the general attitude and more importantly, do you think there is a place for us?
 
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In my region all Catholic choirs are unpaid unfortunately. But on the other hand I see some real talent being displayed at certain parishes. My local Latin Mass parish puts together a small gregorian concert every week. Very dedicated organist/ choir leader.
 
Mostly in the Catholic churches the music is entrusted to volunteers and can vary in ‘flavor’ from contemporary to a more traditional Gregorian music.
There are some paid positions in Cathedrals, Archdioceses etc. usually listed under the name of director of music ministry or director of liturgical music. I think in general people in these kind of positions need to have a good understanding of the Catholic liturgy and already some connections in the field.
 
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I should add that he’s not interested in being paid for anything, just volunteering and offering his gifts to the church.
 
Where I live, the style of music at Mass is rather traditional (think organ and soloists/choirs, sometimes, very occasionally, a piano). So if your husband’s music style is rather “praise and worship”, not all parishes would be a good fit or on the look for someone.

I think this should not keep you from becoming Catholic, if you think that’s where God calls you. But I’m not sure it is wise to consider converting only in order to find a parish that needs him – after all, I’ve been an organist in all kinds of places, Catholic parishes as well, without being asked to convert.
 
First, I think you both should read up on Catholicism and really see if this is where God is leading you. There is a big difference in being a Baptist and being a
Catholic.

I am not sure what your husband’s musical gifts are, but most Catholic parishes havee their own kind of music ministry. For example, I attended a Basilica and I cannot tell you how beautiful the music ministry was there. Every Catholic church has a cantor, usually more than one, who participates in a part of the Mass.
Some Catholic churches might have a small group of musicians accompanying
the Mass, some might just have a guitarist, others only a pianist or organist.
Music is a big part of the Sunday Mass, but not the daily Mass.
 
Thanks for the replies!

I should also add that we are studying the catholic beliefs vs Protestant ones, and have thus far found ourselves in agreement with catholic theology- questioning our baptist beliefs is not easy. But I’m praying for guidance from the Lord. The issue of music was a personal one that I hope gives us peace as we continue to see if we should convert.
 
Sugarloaf said:
My question for Catholics is, in practice does the Catholic Church uphold the gift of music and seek to use it in worship? Are members who are gifted and want to serve appreciated and encouraged or regulated to seasonally choirs only? I am aware each parish might handle this issue differently, but on the whole what is the general attitude and more importantly, do you think there is a place for us?
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My church has spiritual worship musically in what could only be called the Baptist tradition with an organ and a choir. What music is featured in a Catholic church varies by parish and by the ethnicity of the parishioners.

This is from another parish on the south side:

 
Music does have a place in the liturgy. From chant to organ and choir and cantor to other types of musical instruments and choral groups. We were just starting a hand bell choir with the kids when COVID sidelined that.

In large parishes musicians and the ministry leader might be paid. In others it is a volunteer ministry.

Our parish is small and rural. We have one person who plays organ. And one cantor. If they are away or ill it’s a cappella for the congregation. They would be over the moon if someone with musical talent joined the parish.
 
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If your husband can read music, play one or more instruments, and sing, and if he even wants to be a volunteer instead of looking for a paid position, I imagine that most parish music ministries would be happy to have him.

If he plays piano or (especially) organ, I’m pretty darned sure that he could start putting the word out that he’s available as a substitute musician, right now. Same thing if he’s just a darned good male singer, regardless of instrument skills; people are always looking for reliable cantors. (Especially if they can sight read. Yup, Catholic parishes are not exactly picky about this, so the head music guy will be happy if he can.)

In general, it is best if a parish musician is a pious Catholic layperson who knows all kinds of Catholic stuff, etc. BUT without compromising on our faith, it’s pretty common for choirs and musicians in parishes to include “seekers” or people working toward becoming Catholic. Fr. Zuhlsdorf, who’s now a Catholic priest, started at St. Agnes as a Lutheran kid who was just interested in singing advanced choral music. So your husband doesn’t have to feel shy or feel any obligation about it; he should just let the music minister know, and not receive Communion without becoming Catholic first.

If he’s a drummer or plays electric instruments exclusively, that might be a more difficult fit for Mass music, depending on the parish or region. You would probably be looking for Masses or choirs described as “contemporary”, “Life Teen,” or possibly “urban”. There are Catholic parishes with Gospel choirs and Catholic Gospel hymnals, too (which are a lot more musical than Life Teen, usually, snark snark).

Most US parishes use assorted hymns, old and new, and especially from the 80’s and 90’s, along with assorted settings of Mass parts, and the psalms from the readings, along with a few super-simple Gregorian chants.

OTOH, there are Catholic parishes with a capella Latin choirs, sometimes all male ones, or which perform orchestral/choral Masses at Mass every month or so. (St. Agnes in St. Paul, MN, for example, or a lot of cathedrals.) The CMAA (Church Music Association of America – musicasacra.com) runs a colloquium every year and a lot of workshops, and they have a YouTube channel too. A lot of this stuff seems harder than it is, so don’t feel intimidated. (And if that’s what your husband likes, then yay!)

Catholic parishes are all over the place when it comes to music quality, genre, and whether or not it fits the formal definition of “sacred music.” This is not necessarily a bad thing, when it comes to finding a place for your husband to use his gifts, whatever his gifts may be, because it means you can look around and have room to grow, just like the rest of us.

Hope this helped!
 
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Just my opinion, but if you are seeking to become Catholic, then you should be seeking to become Catholic because it is God’s one true church and you want that truth, want to embrace Jesus in the Eucharist, and believe everything in the Catholic profession of faith.

You shouldn’t be doing it because you and your husband are looking for a place where he can lead the music ministry. That’s a totally wrong reason. And since music is less of a focus for Catholic worship than it is for Protestant evangelicals, it’s a side issue at best.

As for parish music ministries being happy to welcome your husband, it should be noted that what he’s allowed to do would vary between parishes, that he would likely have to conform to the wishes of the pastor or maybe even the congregation, and that a lot of Catholic churches don’t have a lot of money to pay someone to make music for their Masses - often they rely heavily on volunteer musicians. So like I said if you’re looking for a church that will make a career path for your husband, I wouldn’t count on Catholic churches doing that.

There are Protestants who do perform some kind of music ministry in Catholic churches without even converting to Catholic. Our parish organist for decades when I was a kid was a Lutheran. He played the organ at a few area churches, including ours. He pretty much just showed up and played the organ for Masses and choir practices, etc. and was paid to do so. It’s not like he had some big active role in the parish.
 
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She didn’t say he wanted to lead music ministry. Kinda the opposite. Same with making money – he wants to be a volunteer.

But if he did… well, I’m not saying people should convert to Catholicism because of music, but plenty of people have. Music is a legit part of our liturgy, Christian heritage, etc. People do learn the faith through music, and experience prayer and know God through music, if we’re doing music right.

(And people have a right to want to get paid for hard work with music, or to want to work for the Church and glorify God with their music.)

But yeah, music alone is obviously not what you want to lean on, in case of disappointment. Conversion and serving God is the important bit, even if we end up with our gifts silent for some inscrutable Divine reason.

And of course, the “problem” with the gift of music is that it’s a gift for helping others and for God’s pleasure, so one is bound to experience times when one doesn’t feel musical consolations, even (or especially) when other people are getting the most good out of one’s work with music. Lots of opportunities to offer it all up and keep going!

But yeah, the default form of Mass is to chant everything, including the Scripture readings. If more parishes did that (instead of very few), it would be more obvious that music is integral to worshipping God in the liturgy.

The angels and saints are present at every Mass, the whole cloud of witnesses. And the choir and the musicians represent their presence all the time, as well as representing the visible congregation, clergy not in vestments up by the altar, and so on, at various times. That’s what we do.

So in short, I think my parish musician card would be revoked if I didn’t ask this lady’s husband, “Hey, would you like to join the choir?” I have no shame. It is my (volunteer) job.
 
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I’m glad to hear y’all are studying up on theology. It is important to seek the Church for her own sake and not because of her music, as beautiful and wonderful as it may be. My childhood parish hired a Protestant woman to be our music minister, she eventually converted, and then when she moved away, she immediately rejoined a Protestant church. I just found it unfortunate, for her sake, that she never seemed to truly open herself to Catholicism.

In terms of the church and music, I have lived many places across the country and have always been welcomed in the music ministry. At that same church I mentioned above, I began cantoring at the age of 11. We literally had no one else. They never even considered having a choir. When we moved at 14, I ended up cantoring a capella for my new parish which didn’t even have an organist, much less a cantor. It was a huge culture shock when I moved to where I live now. Most churches in my area have multiple large choirs, some focusing more on the traditional hymns, while others are more Praise and Worship. I’d imagine most parishes would be happy to enhance their music ministry with new voices & certain instruments (some will have drums, guitars, horns, etc., while others may stick mostly to the piano/organ).

Singing is one of my favorite forms of prayer, and I’m sure that y’all would make wonderful additions to a parish’s music ministry. May God’s love and light be with you to guide your studies as you take up this journey towards our faith. If you get to the point of speaking with a priest about conversion, I’m sure he’d be happy to also discuss his parish’s music ministry and how you could get involved.
 
Rachel:

I have taught RCIA classes for many years and always tell the inquirers this:

There are lots of reasons to investigate the Catholic Church (fiancé, friend, or relative is Catholic, study of Church History, Scripture, or Patristics, etc.), but there is only one reason to become Catholic - and that is, if during this course of study and discernment and journeying with others you determine that this is the one Church that Jesus started.
If it is, nothing can stand in your way; if it’s not, more study, prayer and discernment is in your future.
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Great music, great preaching, beautiful liturgy, charming personality of the Pope, or your parish priest are all great things. But they aren’t the one thing that matters most.

This is Christ’s Church, and the one who possesses the 7 Sacraments He gave it.

Get in touch with a local parish for RCIA - if you need help, PM me.

Musically, most parishes have volunteer musicians, but some positions are paid (especially if he can play the organ or piano).

I often hire musicians ad hoc for weddings and funerals. That’s another way to get involved musically in a parish.

The Baptist churches are filled with devout, zealous people who love the Lord. It’s very likely God is using your musical talent to call you into the fullness of His Church; where you will be fed by Sacred Mysteries to grow closer to each other and closer to Jesus.

I will pray for your family.

I am the way, the truth, and the life, says the Lord,
Deacon Christopher
 
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Mintaka said:
And people have a right to want to get paid for hard work with music, or to want to work for the Church and glorify God with their music.
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You have a right to “want” things. That doesn’t mean it’s automatically going to happen for you, or that your wants are even realistic.

There are a lot of jobs I might have “wanted” to have. The reality is that there weren’t many such opportunities and the few available ones, I probably wasn’t going to get, or they would not be practical for me to have. So it’s important for people to be realistic, not just go around saying, “I have a right to want to do this and get paid for it.”

One also doesn’t base one’s religious beliefs or affiliation on whether one can get a job working for, or even volunteering for, a church in a certain position or field. At least not in the Catholic church.
 
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OddBird said:
I’ve been an organist in all kinds of places, Catholic parishes as well, without being asked to convert.
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Several posters here at CAF, over the years, have made the same point. There have been Catholics who play the organ and/or direct the choir at Protestant churches, and Protestants who perform the same duties in Catholic parishes. My impression, as a non-musician, is that @Sugarloaf’s husband might well find a Catholic parish that would be pleased to make use of his musical abilities and training, provided that both parties are in agreement on what kind of music is wanted. All other considerations would be secondary.
 
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Music and all the arts are very much valued by the Catholic Church. It has preserved them for centuries upon centuries, unlike many Protestant churches which regard the arts as detracting from the Bible. That in itself is a draw for me to the Catholic Church. We view sensory things as aids to worshiping God. As others have said, I hope you continue to explore the Catholic faith as the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ. Perhaps consider joining an RCIA group at your local Catholic parish–instruction usually starts in early Fall, so the timing is good. There’s no obligation to become Catholic at the end of the instruction. Meanwhile, I hope you will also consider delving into the long and rich tradition of Catholic music and Catholic composers, especially liturgical music, Palestrina, Mozart, Gregorian chant. It is marvelous!
 
Sugarloaf said:
My question for Catholics is, in practice does the Catholic Church uphold the gift of music and seek to use it in worship? Are members who are gifted and want to serve appreciated and encouraged or regulated to seasonally choirs only? I am aware each parish might handle this issue differently, but on the whole what is the general attitude and more importantly, do you think there is a place for us?
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My parish encourages music of all kinds. Our pastor recently (before COVID) asked that at least one hymn be a “contemporary” hymn. An example of a “contemporary hymn” that went over really well was “10,000 Reasons.” (I really like this hymn.) They also loved “How Beautiful” (the old Twila Parish song, so IMO, it’s not really “contemporary.”)

I play piano and have played in church since I was in 6th grade. I grew up Baptist, and my husband and I were uber-involved in various Evangelical churches until 2002, when a horrific event in our EFree church made us leave Evangelicalism forever. (I still have nightmares over it). Thankfully God led us to the Catholic church near our house, and after two years of study and prayer, we were received into the Catholic Church in 2004.

From the very beginning, I was encouraged and welcomed to play in my parish, and in parishes all over our area. In 2009, I decided to learn how to play the organ, since many Catholic parishes have a “traditional” Mass (sometimes ALL the Masses at various parishes are “traditional”), and also because I love the organ! So now I can play traditional organ for Mass, or traditional piano, or contemporary/praise piano, depending on what the priest prefers!

I know that your husband will be welcomed and BELOVED in most Catholic parishes! I am constantly being complimented on my piano and organ music in the parishes where I play. One lady who has become my friend tells me, “It’s always livelier when you play the Mass.” I try to play with the style that is appropriate for each hymn; e.g., Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee is “classical/high church” (and on the organ if the parish has an organ), while “Soon and Very Soon” is played ala Andrae Crouch with swing! The congregation seems to really enjoy this. And in case anyone is wondering, I have also played at the “traditional Latin Mass” parish in our city, and the people there also enjoy my organ.

I hope you decide to convert to Catholicism–if you know your Bible as well as most Baptists know their Bibles, you will see that the Catholic Church IS the Church that Jesus Christ founded.
 
In our area, a talented Music/ Music & Liturgy Director is practically always in high demand - and paid staff most of the time. If you have any talent with an organ, you could probably write your ticket as you wish. We have one of the highest rated Schools of Music in our Archdiocese, but finding these folks who know, appreciate, and understand liturgy and Catholic theology is still a major challenge. You could keep yourself as busy as you’d like to be. And on top of that, there are often requests for assistance from other liturgical churches (I assisted a local Methodist church find an organist for Christmas this past year) from among our short list of available folks.
 
As others have stated, your first and foremost reason for considering Catholicism should be because it is the one true Church established by Christ. I was Baptist until about 4 years ago. I was turned off by the style of music worship at my local Baptist Church - it was a showcase for the minister of music and the praise team. They music was all contemporary and void of tried and true hymns. Have you ever attended a Mass? You will find it so different than a Baptist Church service. Mass is not entertainment or what’s in it for me - the entire focus leads us to the Eucharist, joining ourselves with Christ and His sacrifice. Mass is not a social gathering - folks tend to arrive and pray silently, and do so after Mass (or leave quietly). I guess what I’m trying to say is that you will find the music/praise different from what your husband went to school for. Another suggestion would be to look through a Catholic Hymnal - do you recognize the songs? If you do convert, I’m sure your talents can be used. It just might be in a different way. Blessings.
 
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