Baptist considering Catholic faith, role of music

[Usige]

My question for Catholics is, in practice does the Catholic Church uphold the gift of music and seek to use it in worship? Are members who are gifted and want to serve appreciated and encouraged or regulated to seasonally choirs only?

The Church does uphold.the use of music… but that doesn’t mean every (or most) parishes do. Basically the whole mass can be sung. I often serve with a priest that chants the majority of the mass and he has asked the deacons to chant their parts as well. I know other priest and parishes that minimize singing to perhaps the psalms.

One thing your husband would need to be aware of is that, because of the format of the mass, the cantor or choir can’t just choose what the want to sing and how many songs they will sing. If he is used to having 15-30+ minutes of singing praise and worship like many Baptist and evangelical churches near me do, then that won’t happen even in the most charismatic parish. The use of music is to support the elements of the mass, but it is not the main form or focus of worship.

 

[Todd_Easton]

My question for Catholics is, in practice does the Catholic Church uphold the gift of music and seek to use it in worship?

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a document in 2007 called, Sing to the Lord: Music in Divine Worship (pdf), that should give you an official view, though its implementation at the local parish level will vary.

 

[pnewton]

Former Baptist as well here. I too went to Houston Baptist and SW Seminary. I was ordained, but did a little music on the side, as a rank amateur. So I am coming from a similar background. I am a convert of theology, reason, and logic, at least those are the paths the Holy Spirit lead me. Depending on where you are, there is no one answer. I was fortunate (?) enough to have a parish for RCIA where few could play any instrument, and what they had (for English) was leaving. The priest there had no problem letting me jump in and lead music even before I completed RCIA. So, sure, it is possible.

That was twenty years ago. You have to understand though that the music in Mass is always supportive of the Mass, not a performance. That said, there are a lot of really great Catholic hymns that you probably never heard that are simply amazing. Most I learned from the older Catholics that kept telling me their favorites. There was even one poster her, benedictgal, that gave me some great direction.

 

[Peeps]

If he is used to having 15-30+ minutes of singing praise and worship like many Baptist and evangelical churches near me do, then that won’t happen even in the most charismatic parish.

Several years ago, my husband and I were in Michigan for a skating competition, and we attended Mass at a lovely (contemporary architecture) Catholic Church. Everything was according to the rubrics (no clowns or dancing girls, and no Let It Be (Beatles).

After Mass, we hung around as we usually do, and studied the various works of art and the windows in the nave. Then we noticed a group of people, around 20-30, all ages, some dressed to the nines and others in jeans and sweatshirts (Michigan Wolverines!) gathering around the piano, and a pianist sat down. We thought, “Maybe they’re practicing a choir number.”

Nope. For about a half hour, this eclectic group of Catholics sang their hearts out–all kinds of hymns, songs, and spiritual songs, while that wonderful pianist played with abandon! It was delightful, uplifting, and definitely glorified the Lord, not the people (since no one was listening except us–we sat down and enjoyed the music and the fellowship of the singers and pianist).

So…perhaps the OP’s husband might be able to get permission someday to start something like that. Some people remain after Mass to pray the Rosary or offer some other prayers or devotions, or to read the Bible readings again and contemplate them. And others apparently stay to sing praises to the Lord!

 

[Usige]

After Mass…

That is the key. As you say, it was after mass and not part of the liturgy. It certainly could happen as you describe, but in my experience it would likely be very rare.

Of the couple dozen pastors I know, not one of them would support what you describe in the main worship space after mass. Our choirs aren’t even allowed to warm up in the nave as most our priests see the nave and sanctuary as a place where people first and foremost pray (and by pray they mean pray in silence).

 

[felsguy]

Several posters here at CAF, over the years, have made the same point. There have been Catholics who play the organ and/or direct the choir at Protestant churches, and Protestants who perform the same duties in Catholic parishes. My impression, as a non-musician, is that @Sugarloaf’s husband might well find a Catholic parish that would be pleased to make use of his musical abilities and training, provided that both parties are in agreement on what kind of music is wanted. All other considerations would be secondary.

:+1:This!

(bold type above added by me)

 

[Peeps]

Of the couple dozen pastors I know, not one of them would support what you describe in the main worship space after mass. Our choirs aren’t even allowed to warm up in the nave as most our priests see the nave and sanctuary as a place where people first and foremost pray (and by pray they mean pray in silence).

.

I don’t get this at all.

I see nothing, NOTHING irreverent or inappropriate about Christians singing/playing in the nave in the Presence of the Lord Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

Psalm 100 says, “Come into His Presence with singing…”

I can understand that the priest might ask the singing pray-ers to wait until the silent pray-ers have finished their prayers–that makes practical sense to me and seems a considerate thing to do.

 

[27lw]

I’m wondering if Sugarloaf’s husband is a singer? Because the Church does need strong singers, especially men. Hopefully someone with proper vocal training. Because every Sunday Mass usually needs a Cantor. Keyboard isn’t really a requirement always, but technically a lot of the Mass is supposed to be chanted.
After all, Vatican II documents call for vocal / choral training of men and boys.

 

[Peeps]

After all, Vatican II documents call for vocal / choral training of men and boys.

Ahh! Finally–an explanation of why many have left the Church. They’re shocked and horrified at the idea of boys and men…singing! Euuugh!

(Joking! Don’t attack, please!)

Seriously, in recent years, there has been a serious decline in males (boys, teenaged boys, and men) in singing in choirs.

Our city used to have a world-famous boys’ choir that toured every year, and had hundreds of boys–they worked their way up through the choirs until they were able to audition for the touring choir. Their repertoire was huge, everything from chanted pieces to pop music, but mainly just good acapella and accompanied singing. They were amazing.

That choir is down to around 6 boys. I’m not kidding. It’s so sad.

I don’t know what happened. A lot of parents will whisper that “singing is gay” or that they are afraid that their sons will be influenced by a “gay” musician–I don’t even know what to say to this.

And a lot of men and boys scoff at singing and up until recently, they would say, “That’s so gay!” Nowadays, thank goodness, they would never be able to say something like that in public. But I believe they still think it.

I don’t get it. I think this is awful. I’m glad to be reminded that the Church calls for the training of boys and men in singing! But I suspect this will seldom happen except in the parishes that attract tourists, many in the big cities.

What’s so hilarious about this is that many of the male pop. country, and even rap/hip-hop musicians, got their start in singing IN CHURCH, and many have a formal education in music, including proper singing techniques. Many of these musicians have a broad education in musical styles, and they are famous in one style of singing (pop, country, rap, blues, etc.) because of practical reasons–they were making money at it before they were famous, and NOT making money in the other styles–so they stuck with it and climbed the ladder to fame and fortune. We certainly saw that with Lady Gaga–trained classically, sang pop to get rich and famous, and then demonstrated her vocal chops at the Super Bowl and with Tony Bennett–I fully expect her to sing on the opera stage some day, or as a soloist with a great classical piece (e.g., Carmina Burana).

 

[Usige]

I can understand that the priest might ask the singing pray-ers to wait until the silent pray-ers have finished their prayers–that makes practical sense to me and seems a considerate thing to do.

Well they’d be waiting a while since we have 7 masses on Sundays and generally have people there praying 30-45 minutes before and after mass. With baptisms, the Church is rarely empty for more than 5-10 minutes on Sundays. Saturdays are similarly filled with masses, baptisms, funerals and weddings.

Even with all that, our former long time pastor said he had complaints when people would stop in during the week to pray before the tabernacle and “there was a party going on”. This was directed at one of the youth choirs that practiced after school with guitars and drum kit.

 

[Bithynian]

I don’t get it. I think this is awful.

There’s been a fairly precipitous decline in most traditional Western art forms since the post-war period. Not just sacred music such as choral singing and organ studies, but also in terms of literature (poetry has flatlined), ancient languages (especially those of Christianity), and also various plastic arts such as metal spinning (that is, the fabrication of liturgical vessels such as chalices).

Partially, I think this is because there’s been an overwhelming focus on ‘vocational’ and ‘practical’ STEM subjects, with the corollary that negative perceptions have coalesced around some arts studies ('Poetry? That’s gay!). I think, also, that modernist/post-modernist/post-post-modernist art has become rather unintelligible to most people to the extent that many don’t see the point in dedicating time and effort.

 

[Peeps]

Well they’d be waiting a while since we have 7 masses on Sundays and generally have people there praying 30-45 minutes before and after mass. With baptisms, the Church is rarely empty for more than 5-10 minutes on Sundays. Saturdays are similarly filled with masses, baptisms, funerals and weddings.

Even with all that, our former long time pastor said he had complaints when people would stop in during the week to pray before the tabernacle and “there was a party going on”. This was directed at one of the youth choirs that practiced after school with guitars and drum kit.

It sounds like anyone who likes to sing would attend another parish rather than your parish. And that’s OK, right?

 

[MrsAngelala]

First, a little encouragement for your husband: though frustrating, the times in my life when I have been away from my (music) ministry have hands-down been the most fruitful for that ministry. If his dissatisfaction has you seriously considering converting to Catholicism, God is trying to use his trouble to work for your good.

That being said, the times in my life when the music has been the most important part of worship - especially when it’s been a reason to leave a church - have been times when I’ve been off-track. This may not be the case with your husband. However, I am now a music director, and if a new musician came up to me and told me this story, I would invite him to join the seasonal choir and talk with the pastor to ensure he was invited into another ministry as a primary place to be involved. His participation in the seasonal choir would enable me to stay engaged with him and reevaluate on a regular basis.

To see what the Church thinks about its music on the whole, you can read the pertinent sections of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, Musicam Sacram, and The Spirit of the Liturgy (two books with the same title, by Romano Guardini and Cardinal Ratzinger). There are others, which Amazon will suggest to you if you make these purchases.

But in many cases these larger philosophies don’t make it to the parish level. Every church has its own musical personality. If you’re wondering if you’ll find a Catholic church that thinks exactly as you do about music - you won’t. But as Catholics, we strive to take an opposite approach to such things than do evangelicals: technically, we don’t believe that our Church (or local church) should accommodate itself to us, but that we should accommodate ourselves to our C/church. It’s highly challenging. But it forges saints.

I do hope you’ll join us. The Eucharistic Jesus is the most beautiful person on earth, and he lives in every single one of our churches. He sits there in silence waiting for us to visit him, through millenia and all kinds of music.

 

[Sugarloaf]

I appreciate all of these replies immensely, thank you to each one who took the time to respond.

Music is not the reason we are considering the Catholic Church, but it is a part of it. My husband has always only had the desire to support the message with music when he was a minister, not to showcase, perform or revel in just being a musician. His philosophy of what worship music is and how it should be used, from the sounds of it, seems to align with the Catholic Church which is encouraging. It is wonderful to hear of all the ways music is used in Mass and outside of it. He definitely has an interest to study more of the history of music in the church.