Baptist says we aren't "biblical".

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Jack_Bauer said:
Make sure you stock the** 1622 Edition.** It contains the deuterocanon. That’s the original KJV, not this one we see offered in modern times after the fundamentalists began to strip it down further.
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Jack,

That would be the 1611 version. It can be found here online at…

sceti.library.upenn.edu/sceti/printedbooksNew/index.cfm?textID=kjbible&PagePosition=1

me…👍

The deuterocanonicals were stripped from the KJV

By consensus of all Protestants?
By convening of a Synod?
By Royal Decree?
By meeting and argument that was settled by taking them out by a local Pastor?

Well Pilgrim, by no means, for to the OHCAC was given the utterance of Scripture and the Protestant succumbed to the whims of a Bible printing press, the same press they hold in such high esteem. I would suggest that the Protestant have all their ecclesial communities filled with stained glass windows of a printing press the highest authority that printed the Bible for them to read and the same press that was used to remove the DB because of expense. Gives the notion of Economy of salvation a whole new meaning.
 
Isn’t the entire mass based off of scripture? I am always confused when people claim Catholics are not following the bible. Every single mass I have ever attended is based off of scripture.
 
JRKH said:
As I was going through my subscribed threads list I saw this title once again and my first thought was -

“Funny but that is the same argument that the Judaizers used against the Gentile converts in Antioch”.

The Jewish converts were upset that Paul (and others) were saying that the Gentiles did not need to be circumcised etc. in order to become Christians. Their argument quite logically followed the line that Jesus was a Jew, that “The Way” (Christianity) flowed from Judaism and that the “eternal covenant”, the Divine Law as recorded in Holy Scripture, needed to be followed - including circumcision.

So the Jewish converts quite logically accused the Gentile converts of not being biblical…

Peace
James
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And Paul points out that the Jew was given the utterance of God, Scripture…
1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
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and from this point forward chapter 3 of Romans until Romans 11
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. **Wot ye not what the scripture saith of **Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
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They had the Scripture and for 8 Chapters Paul explains the Scripture in a way they had never understood…and why he points out in Chapter 7 that the Old Covenant is dead…

The New Covenant is alive and well…and to us the OHCAC have been given the utterances of Scripture and we have the correct interpretation…the Baptists are offspring and rebels in the New Covenant.
 
CopticChristian said:
Jack,

That would be the 1611 version. It can be found here online at…

sceti.library.upenn.edu/sceti/printedbooksNew/index.cfm?textID=kjbible&PagePosition=1

me…👍

The deuterocanonicals were stripped from the KJV

By consensus of all Protestants?
By convening of a Synod?
By Royal Decree?
By meeting and argument that was settled by taking them out by a local Pastor?

Well Pilgrim, by no means, for to the OHCAC was given the utterance of Scripture and the Protestant succumbed to the whims of a Bible printing press, the same press they hold in such high esteem. I would suggest that the Protestant have all their ecclesial communities filled with stained glass windows of a printing press the highest authority that printed the Bible for them to read and the same press that was used to remove the DB because of expense. Gives the notion of Economy of salvation a whole new meaning.
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My bad. I haven’t looked at mine in a while. It’s only here to show my family in case they bring up the KJV arguments again. My other KJV’s are hand me downs. Used to walk that walk and talk that talk. I never realized the KJV orginally contained the DB until about 5 years ago.
 
eo_chibears said:
Isn’t the entire mass based off of scripture? I am always confused when people claim Catholics are not following the bible. Every single mass I have ever attended is based off of scripture.
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Well, actually the mass is based off of sacred tradition and scripture is based off of sacred tradition. So many times I hear the use of the 3 leg stool theory to discuss the “Deposit of Faith.” It’s only an analogy. The truth is that the deposit of faith is actually Sacred Tradition, from which the magisterium [teaching authority] and the scriptures are derived.
 
Jack_Bauer said:
My bad. I haven’t looked at mine in a while. It’s only here to show my family in case they bring up the KJV arguments again. My other KJV’s are hand me downs. Used to walk that walk and talk that talk. I never realized the KJV orginally contained the DB until about 5 years ago.
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and many Protestants will tell you that Catholics added books to the bible…that is what they are taught…they have been taught one error and if one error is discovered there must be others…start with this one and ask any Protestant…

On what authority were these books removed?..also I suggest you visit my posting on “why Christians can’t read Scripture”…concerning the Protestant Bible…👍
 
Jack_Bauer said:
Well, actually the mass is based off of sacred tradition and scripture is based off of sacred tradition. So many times I hear the use of the 3 leg stool theory to discuss the “Deposit of Faith.” It’s only an analogy. The truth is that the deposit of faith is actually Sacred Tradition, from which the magisterium [teaching authority] and the scriptures are derived.
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You may want to visit some Orthodox sites for the explanation. The bible as we know it never existed bound as it was in the early Church. You know how the gospels are bound in one volume in Mass? Well in the Church there were scattered in variuos places all the elements of the Bible as we know it and used in worship in various ways…similar to what we do in Mass…Psalms, OT, Epistle, Gospel…etc…

The Church birthed the Bible…we can say councils and all that but the reality is that it was a product of the Church. The Church is the body of Christ. The Bible is the word of God. God spoke once and said “Christ”…Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ…The Body of Christ produced the Word.

Now when you consider that the Church is the mystery hidden for all ages and that there is the notion of the OT Church…then when Paul says…
1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2Much every way: chiefly, **because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. **3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
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The Jews were given the Scriptures and the Church was given the Scriptures and wrote what is called NT Scripture. They are inseperable. It is not the Bible or the Church. It is the Bible and the Church. How do you separate the Word of God from the Body of Christ? Is Christ not God? A body without a voice is a mute.
 
eo_chibears said:
Isn’t the entire mass based off of scripture? I am always confused when people claim Catholics are not following the bible. Every single mass I have ever attended is based off of scripture.
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That’s why when I am asked by an otherwise sincere Evangelical or Baptists about my Catholic beliefs - and it happens often here in the deep south - I look for an opportunity to invite them to Mass.

Just get them in the door and their love of scripture will do the rest. They typically spend half the Mass with their jaw on the floor going, “Hey, wasn’t that from Revelation!” “Wait, that’s from Luke!!!” “Did you guys just say what the centurion said in Matthew 8???”

Anyone who loves scripture is usually blown away by the Mass. That should be even more true now with the new translation.

-Tim-
 
On occasion I attend a Baptist church in Houston, and the Pastor frequently “jokes” about the early churches being “Baptist.” For example, he’ll refer to the First Baptist Church of Antioch, or the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem, etc.

While it’s understood as a tongue-in-cheek comment, it masks the genuine belief that the early believers were more like “Southern Baptists” than “Roman Catholics.” It also shows the extent to which some protestants will “protest” historical evidence.
 
stewstew03 said:
On occasion I attend a Baptist church in Houston, and the Pastor frequently “jokes” about the early churches being “Baptist.” For example, he’ll refer to the First Baptist Church of Antioch, or the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem, etc.

While it’s understood as a tongue-in-cheek comment, it masks the genuine belief that the early believers were more like “Southern Baptists” than “Roman Catholics.” It also shows the extent to which some protestants will “protest” historical evidence.
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The word for it is simplistic. People have an attatchment to something that looks and sounds familiar. They cannot relate to people thousands of years and miles apart. If Paul or Silas were to enter a time machine and show up in their hometown they would probably call Homeland Security!!!:eek:
 
CopticChristian said:
You may want to visit some Orthodox sites for the explanation. The bible as we know it never existed bound as it was in the early Church. You know how the gospels are bound in one volume in Mass? Well in the Church there were scattered in variuos places all the elements of the Bible as we know it and used in worship in various ways…similar to what we do in Mass…Psalms, OT, Epistle, Gospel…etc…
**
The Church birthed the Bible…we can say councils and all that but the reality is that it was a product of the Church. The Church is the body of Christ. The Bible is the word of God. God spoke once and said “Christ”….Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ…**…The Body of Christ produced the Word.

Now when you consider that the Church is the mystery hidden for all ages and that there is the notion of the OT Church…then when Paul says…

The Jews were given the Scriptures and the Church was given the Scriptures and wrote what is called NT Scripture. They are inseperable. It is not the Bible or the Church. It is the Bible and the Church. How do you separate the Word of God from the Body of Christ? Is Christ not God? A body without a voice is a mute.
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I’m quite familiar now with the events leading up to the canon. Sure, can’t quote off the top of my head, but I do know what happened. I’ve been studying scripture for 36 years. The more I learn the more I realize I really don’t know. The more I listen to newbies studying scripture the more I laugh inside, but encourage their endeavor with hopes they don’t mess up like I did in the early part of my studies. It’s really easy to become prideful in ones knowledge of scripture. Luther, and believe it or not, even St. Jerome as you quoted “ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ” made the same errors in wanted to remove the deuterocanon. The Church said NO. The rest is history.

What’s interesting to me is the fact that the Orthodox have a bit more than evidenced in Catholic bibles. 3 and 4 Maccabees for example. I’m not sure if there are other, but I do believe there are. Anyway. Good points. Right now I’m trying to emotionally deal with the fact that I’ve spent so much time and money in college and have little to show for it. I’m pondering this after a couple of discussion with 2 of my siblings who both dropped out of high school, procured a GED and are making $200,000 / year plus or minus. One makes $1000/day. I’m floored and embarrassed after trying to help them with my measly little income doing Civil engineering and GIS, making a 4th of their income. The Army has a saying “Life’s a b____ and then you die”. Boy is that owning up to its reputation. I’m scrambling to reevaluate what I should teach my children right now so that they don’t end up like me - poor. You know, pride is an awful thing. We try to inform ourselves to avoid what we perceive as mistakes of our fathers and end up doing worst in the process. The Protestants ought to rethink what they are doing… It’s kind of the same thing.
 
Jack_Bauer said:
I’m quite familiar now with the events leading up to the canon. Sure, can’t quote off the top of my head, but I do know what happened. I’ve been studying scripture for 36 years. The more I learn the more I realize I really don’t know. The more I listen to newbies studying scripture the more I laugh inside, but encourage their endeavor with hopes they don’t mess up like I did in the early part of my studies. It’s really easy to become prideful in ones knowledge of scripture. Luther, and believe it or not, even St. Jerome as you quoted “ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ” made the same errors in wanted to remove the deuterocanon. The Church said NO. The rest is history.
**
What’s interesting to me is the fact that the Orthodox have a bit more than evidenced in Catholic bibles. 3 and 4 Maccabees for example. I’m not sure if there are other, but I do believe there are.** Anyway. Good points. Right now I’m trying to emotionally deal with the fact that I’ve spent so much time and money in college and have little to show for it. I’m pondering this after a couple of discussion with 2 of my siblings who both dropped out of high school, procured a GED and are making $200,000 / year plus or minus. One makes $1000/day. I’m floored and embarrassed after trying to help them with my measly little income doing Civil engineering and GIS, making a 4th of their income. The Army has a saying “Life’s a b____ and then you die”. Boy is that owning up to its reputation. I’m scrambling to reevaluate what I should teach my children right now so that they don’t end up like me - poor. You know, pride is an awful thing. We try to inform ourselves to avoid what we perceive as mistakes of our fathers and end up doing worst in the process. The Protestants ought to rethink what they are doing… It’s kind of the same thing.
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You may want to visit my post “which Bible alone”…concerning that.
 
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