Baptist take on spirituality

[Paul3144]

Janet, just out of curiosity, why did you become Baptist?

 

[morriec]

I think that if I were a baptist, and I believe “once saved always saved” what’s the point of spirituality? I would not be on a quest for holiness, in no need of the sacraments. So what if my prayer life is near non-existent?

This does not mean that Catholics earn the way to heaven, it just means that with the grace of God and our cooperation (spiritual life), we establish a relationship with God.

 

[Zenas]

Sometimes there are good reasons to reject certain things… Mainly because they are unbiblical like these…
Only Jesus Christ ever showed Himself after His death and that was only until He was taken up…
The only assumption that I have is that these so called apparitions you are talking about go in the same category as the talks with deceased family members via a spiritist… If you want to talk to a demon go there… They know enough about you and the one you want to talk to… It’s a demon hotline.

After death appearances are rare but not limited to Jesus Christ, as you say. The New Testament gives at least two other instances of this.

The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:52:53.

And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah, who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. Luke 9:30-31.

Janet, the reason I suggested you read up on these phenomena before trashing them is that your post I quoted seems to dismiss them as if you knew nothing about them. I don’t see how you can dismiss something as well documented as Fatima by saying it is somehow connected to demonology.

 

[Janet1983]

Janet, just out of curiosity, why did you become Baptist?

I was Christian before I became Southern Baptist. I lived on a military post in Europe, got saved and baptized while my husband was in Iraq and I studied theology and achieved a degree. After we moved to the US we had to find ourselves a church. My husband was already Southern Baptist and my studies were evangelical. Looking at scripture and then at the preaching we took a while to find the right church. We did end up in a Southern Baptist church with good and sound Gospel preaching. Our church is relatively small which I see as a sign of good doctrine as I know that the truth is not accepted by the masses. Why should they go to a small church and get sound doctrine when they can go to the mega church around the corner to get their ears tickled in a motivational speech?

 

[Janet1983]

I think that if I were a baptist, and I believe “once saved always saved” what’s the point of spirituality? I would not be on a quest for holiness, in no need of the sacraments. So what if my prayer life is near non-existent?

This does not mean that Catholics earn the way to heaven, it just means that with the grace of God and our cooperation (spiritual life), we establish a relationship with God.

Why would you not be in a quest for holiness? Somebody who is truly saved has an intimate relationship with God. He so wants to be like Jesus Christ that he sometimes doesn’t even know what he is asking for. God will mold them and shape them after breaking them. He will use them for His purpose.
Getting saved means to be able to please God and it is also accompanied by an immense gratitude. He saved me! Now I live for Him!

 

[allischalmers]

• They believe that God leads, loves and also chastises them. All true believers endure to the end, because HE will keep them. A true Christian can sin and he can backslide, but he cannot stay there if he is truly a child of God.
• They believe in a new birth of man’s spirit by God’s Holy Spirit. That is being born again. (One does not have to engage in barking and flapping on the ground as if in seizure. If in a congregation with different nationalities present everybody could clearly understand me in their language I would consider myself speaking in tongues.)
• They believe in God changing somebody’s heart completely, giving him the ability to serve God in the first place

If that does not sound spiritual in a scriptural way…
Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God’s grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.

Well said, words of a true Baptist.

 

[Janet1983]

After death appearances are rare but not limited to Jesus Christ, as you say. The New Testament gives at least two other instances of this. Janet, the reason I suggested you read up on these phenomena before trashing them is that your post I quoted seems to dismiss them as if you knew nothing about them. I don’t see how you can dismiss something as well documented as Fatima by saying it is somehow connected to demonology.

You are right. Those were to be seen by mortal men and this is biblical. I was wrong and I apologize. I did not really take too much time to study into the subject and I should have.

Concerning apparitions of Mary we still have to be discerning however and see whether they are truly from God.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

What I need to ask is this: Are they trustworthy?
This is a very important question because there are demons out there and we can see their activity. Undoubtedly there is a very good chance of supernatural things being demonic.
I cannot reflect on their conduct. What I can do however is test whether or not they line up with the Word of God in scripture. They should if they were from God and not demonic.
In the following I will not get into detail about the “angel” even though this one could be disputed too.

Fatima, May 13, 1917:

“Do not be afraid, I will do you no harm… I am from Heaven.” That does not tell us anything unfortunately. Many spirits said that they were somebody else in the past…
“I have come to ask you to come here for six months in succession, on the 13th day, at the same hour. Later on, I will tell you who I am and what I want” Well that doesn’t say much either, but I put it here to be consistent.

“Are you willing to offer yourselves to God and bear all the sufferings He wills to send you, as an act of reparation for the sins by which He is offended, and in supplication for the conversion of sinners?” That’s just preposterous. Jesus Christ did bear all the sufferings on the cross. Past present and future sins of those who repent and believe are already paid.
This way we can be reconciled to God.
2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

“Pray the Rosary every day in order to obtain peace for the world, and the end of the war.”
I know that this is supposed to be a meditation, but there is something wrong about this:
Meditations are not prayer. The rosary is a prayer.
Matthew 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

“O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fire of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who have most need of Thy mercy.” We are all in need of His mercy. There is none that is without sin. By His mercy we can get saved here and now.

Then there is the next “apparition”. There were about 70 people present, though only the children could see the apparition. She told the youngsters that many souls go to hell because they have no one to pray and make sacrifices for them. Nobody does go to hell because there is nobody to pray, but because they did not pray themselves to get saved. Salvation comes to us by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. “But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.” (Acts 15:11)

“God wishes you to remain in the world for some time because He wants to use you to establish in the world the devotion to my Immaculate Heart. I promise salvation to those who embrace it, and their souls will be loved by God as flowers placed by myself to adorn His throne.” Even if she was who she said, she cannot promise salvation to anyone. Only God can assure someone of their salvation. This actually sounds too much like what some misguided preachers do. They pray a prayer with someone and then popishly declare them saved.

“O my Jesus, I offer this for love of Thee, for the conversion of poor sinners, and in reparation for all the sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.” How is the love of the Lord shown in deifying the woman who bore Him by saying her heart is immaculate? Mary was in need of the Saviour as much as we are, for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one. (Romans 3:10) In Luke’s gospel, Mary herself admits that she was a sinner. Otherwise she would never have concluded that she needed a Saviour: “And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” Luke 1:46-47
In this light the following is more than just mere repetition of a fallacy. It is simply untrue and convicting the spirit that led many astray through these words:
“You have seen Hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish, in the world, devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If people do what I tell you, many souls will be saved and there will be peace.” We are not to devote to Mary, but we are to devote our lives to Jesus Christ Himself. Anything else is the worst case of idolatry.

 

[SedesDomi]

I was Christian before I became Southern Baptist.

Why did you stop being Christian?

 

[Janet1983]

Why did you stop being Christian?

Funny… I was and am a Christian. I was just already saved before I joined a Southern Baptist Church… Mainly for lack of one in the neighbourhood. I was saved and got baptized in a military chapel in Germany and according to regulations they are not allowed to baptize into any denomination. I was therefore a Protestant believer without denomination until I moved to the US and physically joined a church.

 

[mark_a]

“We already have people accusing us of trying to smuggle a kind of Roman Catholic approach to faith into an evangelical seminary,” said Haykin. “What we are saying is that the Protestant reformers were trying to get past the whole medieval Catholic world and reconnect with the ancient church and its approach to the spiritual life. That’s what we are trying to do, too.”

Perhaps some other ancient Church might do.

When Whitney and his colleagues talk about spirituality, they emphasize images of the great Charles Spurgeon spending hours in Bible study before preaching, laypeople meditating on the symbolism in John Bunyan’s “The Pilgrim’s Progress” and missionaries weeping while praying for the lost…

“We believe that biblical, Evangelical spirituality has not been tried and found wanting. It simply has not been tried

.”…

Looks like Whitney and his colleagues have been reading Chesterton!

%between%

 

[Paul3144]

I think that if I were a baptist, and I believe “once saved always saved” what’s the point of spirituality? I would not be on a quest for holiness, in no need of the sacraments. So what if my prayer life is near non-existent?

A few comments about this:

1- You don’t understand the doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints.
2- The idea is to love and serve the God who has given all for me. That is greater than all things.
3- Regeneration involves a change of heart. After that, how can you not serve God? A regenerate person won’t “live like hell.” Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.

 

[Janet1983]

A few comments about this:

1- You don’t understand the doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints.
2- The idea is to love and serve the God who has given all for me. That is greater than all things.
3- Regeneration involves a change of heart. After that, how can you not serve God? A regenerate person won’t “live like hell.” Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.

Amen to that.

 

[Zenas]

A few comments about this:

1- You don’t understand the doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints.
2- The idea is to love and serve the God who has given all for me. That is greater than all things.
3- Regeneration involves a change of heart. After that, how can you not serve God? A regenerate person won’t “live like hell.” Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.

Perseverance of the Saints is wishful thinking and goes against not only what the Bible teaches but also against human experience. Surely you have seen many devout Christians who for one reason or another just walked away from their faith. If you haven’t, you haven’t lived very long. In order to justify this doctrine scripturally, you must go to a selected few verses and take them out of context. The overwhelming evidence of the N.T. portrays a doctrine of conditional security, i.e., you will remain secure in your salvation if and only if you persevere in the faith.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Another spirtual phenomenon Baptists reject is apparitions. I was over 60 years old before I ever heard of anything like Fatima, Lourdes or Guadalupe.

These “apparitions” come complete with miracles, and exquisite timing for their purposes. How do they explain them away?

At Zeitoun in Egypt, literally millions of people witnessed Eve above the Coptic Church.

And who do the Baptists think is the woman in Chapter 12 of Revelation?

 

[rev_kevin]

Sometimes there are good reasons to reject certain things… Mainly because they are unbiblical like these…
Only Jesus Christ ever showed Himself after His death and that was only until He was taken up…
The only assumption that I have is that these so called apparitions you are talking about go in the same category as the talks with deceased family members via a spiritist… If you want to talk to a demon go there… They know enough about you and the one you want to talk to… It’s a demon hotline.

No Jesus wasn’t the only one to show himself after died. In Matthew 17:1-13 is the affermation. See Jesus, Peter, James and John went up the mountain. While th e 3 disciples were there Moses and Elijah appeaaraed with Jesus infront of Peter, James and John. Both Moses and Elijah have been dead for some time. Remember Jesus didn’t appear to everyone Just a select few.