Baptist to Buddhist???

[hn160]

Met an Asian woman yesterday who announced that she had been raised Baptist, but converted along with her family to be Buddhists after becoming an adult.

Never had I ever heard of such a thing. Converting from believing in Jesus, real God and real man, into believing in reincarnation & we and everything is God.

How common is this?

What do you think about it?

I guess when she dies, she can see how Steve Jobs made out.

 

[Tony888]

My understanding of Buddhism, or at least some forms of it, is that the individual can beleive in a deity, as back in the day when it cropped up, and when it was being pushed around polytheistic religions, they found a lot of people wouldn’t convert becase they woulnd’t give up their deity/ancestor worship.

I think its a lot more common than people think, its a bit like church shopping I see a lot of Protestants do. I’m generalising, but in this day and age, people want a religion that doesn’t restrict them in their behaviour too much, or doesn’t demand too much adherance, or allows a lot of what they consider freedom.

My sister is dabbling in Buddhism. Its actually kind of amusing because she says to me “Oh, did you know Buddha said this…” and “the Deli Lama said that…” and it sounds an awful lot like what Christ said and what the Pope said.

I’ve got my fingers on the Rosary praying it gets her back to teh faith of her childhood.

Since Buddhism has been around for over 2,500 years, I think it is understandable that different denominations developed as it spread across Asia and the world.

Personally, I see it as a philosophy of self development rather than a true “religion”
While many points are not black & white, I don’t think it is easy to be a practising buddhist

 

[rossum]

My sister is dabbling in Buddhism. Its actually kind of amusing because she says to me “Oh, did you know Buddha said this…” and “the Deli Lama said that…” and it sounds an awful lot like what Christ said and what the Pope said.

But the Buddha said it first.

“Love others as you love yourself” - Bhadramayakaravyakarana sutra.

Given that the moral rules in most religions are basically similar, it isn’t surprising that there is a fair degree of overlap in what religious figures say. It is usually the theory, rather than the morality, where they differ most.

rossum

 

[Sufjon]

Never had I ever heard of such a thing. Converting from believing in Jesus, real God and real man, into believing in reincarnation & we and everything is God.

Hi ComeHome2Rome:

It sounds as though it is hard for you to understand how that could happen. Can you explain why? What logic (in your estimation) does it defy?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[tskrobacz]

Makes perfect sense to me. Buddhism is about enlightenment. Jesus said…stay awake. Someone attracted to Buddhism is probably on the path to awakening from their ego self to their true self. As Buddhism predates the birth of Our Lord by 500 years I’ve always thought that the Buddha in many ways was sent by God to prepare the way for Jesus. To set in motion new thinking so that Jesus could be understood (at least in part). Without the Buddha Jesus’ message may have been too much for the masses to grasp.

 

[Vis_Fati]

I guess when she dies, she can see how Steve Jobs made out.

If that’s a veiled (or not so veiled) attempt to say she’ll be burning in hell… be careful of your off-handed smugness, because even if you make it into heaven, you’ll have to account for it.

But then again, who’s to say that Steve Jobs is damned to hell?

I’m sorry if that’s not what you were implying… and then I retract my comment. But your post was pretty ambiguous.

 

[Telstar]

She should have become a Baptist-Buddhist, instead. Works for me.

You really remind me of someone I knew from another forum, several years back. In fact, I was tempted to ask if it was you. Your style of posting threads, and your opinions, seem very familiar in that regard.

So… have you ever been known in the past as the insider, ‘agent so-and-so’?

Just wonderin’.

 

[Ahimsa]

You really remind me of someone I knew from another forum, several years back. In fact, I was tempted to ask if it was you. Your style of posting threads, and your opinions, seem very familiar in that regard.

So… have you ever been known in the past as the insider, ‘agent so-and-so’?

Just wonderin’.

I’ve been on other forums, but never as “Agent So-and-so”.

 

[Telstar]

I’ve been on other forums, but never as “Agent So-and-so”.

OK… then I guess you might just have an internet doppelganger out there, somewhere. I (almost) always enjoyed his posts. I especially enjoyed his silly sense of humor. If you’re anything like him in that regard, then I’m sure we can get along, just fine.

BTW… I think he was Catholic, then Protestant, with a strong inclination toward Buddhism. I was never quite sure if he was actually Buddhist, but he often spoke of the similarities to what Jesus taught. That’s what tended to make it an even more interesting parallel between you and him.

 

[eddadonkey]

If all Truth belongs to Christ, and if this woman saw some element of Truth in Buddhism, which she did not happen to see in the form of Christianity that she was exposed to previously, then you can’t say that she “rejected” Christ, not knowing what’s in her Heart.

Actually, although you are right in that Christianity and Buddhism share some truths, Holly3278 is also right that Buddhism and Christianity are contradictory, since the two religions go their separate ways in such an early impasse in their fundamentals, and thus it is inconceivable, in my mind, how the two can be mixed together.

The most fundamental basis of Buddhism, from what I can understand about it, is the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism. A form of them are:

1. Suffering exists
2. Suffering arises from attachment to desires
3. Suffering ceases when attachment to desire ceases
4. Freedom from suffering is possible by practicing the Eightfold Path
   buddhaweb.org/

Now, of course, Christianity agrees with Truth 1. Suffering DOES exist. And Christianity also agrees (up to a point) with Truth 2: Suffering DOES come from attachment to desires of this world.

However, Christianity will NEVER agree with Truth 3. Christianity believes that each and every thing in this world is not just good, but very good: “And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good” Genesis 1:31, Therefore, even the desires of man are very good, which is opposite of Buddhism’s view wherein the desires of man are either inconsequential or downright evil.

But if this is so, then why do we have these desires? What are they for? Christianity’s answer is the polar opposite of Truth 3, and the content of Christianity’s minor objection to Buddhism’s Second Noble Truth: man suffers when he desires ONLY the world. And herein is the reason why I do not believe Buddhism can ever compare with Christianity: I believe that Buddhism is the greatest philosophy of the entire world, and yet it is only OF the world. Gautama Buddha’s genius truly grasped life’s dilemma of man’s insatiable desires which none of this world can satisfy, and since desire cannot be satisfied, desire is man’s main and—as Buddha ingeniously grasped—only source of suffering. In other words, despair is man’s lot in this world, and Buddha, with all of his intellect, wisdom, and experience, only saw embracing despair as the answer.

Nirvana is Siddhartha’s despair for something to love.

And herein lies Buddha’s weakness, for he had never known anything beyond this world. Man can never truly love anything of this world, or even the whole world, since his heart has a hole that cannot be filled by the entire universe, and the pleasures of this world can never fit the shape of that hole.

For you see, man’s heart has a hole in the size and shape of God.

“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength.” That is Christianity’s rebuttal to the Third Noble Truth: we are not to deny all of our desires, but we are actually to inflame and to build one desire, our True Desire, the desire that was given by the Creator that grasps beyond this world, til it reaches the highest heavens.

“So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

 

[Ahimsa]

Therefore, even the desires of man are very good, which is opposite of Buddhism’s view wherein the desires of man are either inconsequential or downright evil.

Your interpretation of the Four Noble Truths is largely incorrect. The second Noble truth is that the origin of suffering is “tanha”.

“Tanha” is not “desire”. “Tanha” is “thirstful craving”. Thirstful craving is the origin of “dukkha”, commonly translated as “suffering”, but more precisely “the feeling of dissatisfaction”.

“Desire” (“chanda”) is a broad category which includes both desires (compassion, generosity, non-violence, e.g.) that lead to “the highest Happiness/Joy”, or “Nibbana”; and desires that don’t lead to “the Highest Happiness/Joy”, or “Nibbana”. Thirstful craving (lust, hatred, e.g.) don’t lead to Nibbana.

A proper translation of the Four Noble Truths would be:

1. There is a sense of dissatisfaction that pervades most peoples’ lives.
2. This sense of dissatisfaction is caused by thirstful craving, seeking happiness from things that can never give happiness, nor give a sense of total and complete satisfaction.
3. This sense of dissatisfaction is not necessary.
4. The Noble Eightfold Path demonstrates the non-necessity of the sense of dissatisfaction.

 

[eddadonkey]

Your interpretation of the Four Noble Truths is largely incorrect. “Tanha” is not “desire”. “Tanha” is “thirstful craving”. Thirstful craving is the origin of “dukkha”, or “the feeling of dissatisfaction”. “Desire” (“chanda”) is a broad category which includes both desires that lead to “the highest Happiness/Joy”, or “Nirvana”; and desires that don’t lead to “the Highest Happiness/Joy”, or “Nirvana”. Thirstful craving (lust, hatred, e.g.) don’t lead to Nirvana.

A proper translation of the Four Noble Truths would be:

1. There is a sense of dissatisfaction that pervades most peoples’ lives.
2. This sense of dissatisfaction is caused by thirstful craving for that which can never give a sense of total and complete satisfaction.
3. This sense of dissatisfaction is not necessary.
4. The Noble Eightfold Path demonstrates the non-necessity of the sense of dissatisfaction.

AND I still cannot see how that reconciles Buddhism and Christianity.

Christianity’s greatest virtue, Charity, is a “thirstful craving” for God.

 

[Ahimsa]

AND I still cannot see how that reconciles Buddhism and Christianity.

I don’t think this thread is about reconciling Buddhism with Christianity.

Christianity’s greatest virtue, Charity, is a “thirstful craving” for God.

I see that you’re defining “thirstful craving” in a particular way, to mean a “craving” that can lead one to absolute Joy. If you want to define thirstful craving in that way, then I can re-translate the Buddhist Four Noble Truths and include one part of the Eightfold Path:

1. There is a sense of dissatisfaction that pervades most peoples’ lives.
2. This sense of dissatisfaction is caused by a thirstful craving that seeks Happiness in things that can never give Happiness.
3. This sense of dissatisfaction is not necessary.
4. The Noble Eightfold Path demonstrates the non-necessity of the sense of dissatisfaction.

The Noble Eightfold Path:
#6. Right Effort: Right effort is thirstful craving for Nibbana
Buddhism doesn’t historically apply “craving” in the context of the practice towards Nibbana, because “craving” in Buddhism has a very technical meaning that is connected to suffering/sense of dissatisfaction, not to Nibbana.

Instead of speaking of “craving” for Nibbana, Buddhism speaks of “dhamma-chanda” for Nibbana, or “the Righteous Desire” for Nibbana.

So, in English, whether one speaks of “craving” for Nibbana, or “Righteous Desire” for Nibbana, the same idea of striving for Nibbana is clear. And it becomes clear that “desire” is not “evil” in Buddhism.