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Mickey
Guest
Yes it is for adults who have accepted Christ–and adolescents–and toddlers–and infants. It’s for everybody! :banghead:
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12volt_man
Guest
Yes, some of them.
So, your pope’s understanding of Christ is better than the Holy Spirit’s?
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imroc
Guest
But you still haven’t told us where in the Bible it says that children and infants are banned from baptism. So unless you make this known, we cannot and will not believe your claim that such fathers aren’t in line with scripture. Heck, the funny thing is, some of these writers learned much of what they wrote before and during the writing of scripture.
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Lazerlike42
Guest
Where does the Bible teach allll that?
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12volt_man
Guest
No. The only example we see in scripture is of those adults who are baptised to make a public profession of faith in Christ.
Toddlers and infants cannot make a conscious decision to follow Christ.
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Eden
Guest
The Holy Spirit guides the Pope as Peter’s successor just as Peter was guided by the Holy Spirit. This is elementary Catholicism here. It’s not difficult to understand. I’m beginning to realize that you are not familiar with the biblical foundations for Apostolic Succession.
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imroc
Guest
No, but no pope has ever contradicted the true teaching of the Church through sacred tradition nor sacred scripture.
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Lazerlike42
Guest
Why? They were created by the Catholic Church, which split off from the true Church.
So, your pope’s understanding of Christ is better than the Holy Spirit’s?
You are dodging the question. We believe that the Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit.
But that has nothing to do with the issue. The point is this: a man who was taught by John the Apostle wrote things that disagree with your theology. How do you explain that other than by saying that you know better than a man who learned from John the Apostle?
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12volt_man
Guest
And until you show me any example of infant baptism in scripture, I will have to believe the Biblical accounts.
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imroc
Guest
Are you saying that you have scripture that explicitly cites all that happened in the Centurians home and shows how all in the household made a public profession of faith?
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12volt_man
Guest
The pope has the very same Holy Spirit given to every believer. No more, no less.
I don’t. I say that the Bible is the final authority, even for someone who learned from John.
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Lazerlike42
Guest
I cannot find an example of the sinner’s prayer in Scripture. I also cannot find an example of Christians gathering in church on Sunday in Scripture. I cannot find an example of a pastor being paid in Scripture, or of a sermon being given in Scripture. Why do baptists do these things?
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12volt_man
Guest
I am saying that we base our doctrine on what the Bible says, rather than what the Bible doesn’t necessarily say, but that we hope that it implies in order to back up our traditions.
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Lazerlike42
Guest
Well let’s put aside for a moment the fact that the men who learned from John didn’t have a Bible.
If someone who learned from John interpreted the Bible one way, and you interpreted it a different way, who would you say has the proper interpretation?
Here’s a better question. In John’s gospel, we read in John 20:20-23 a verse the you interpret one way. However, those who learned directly from John interpret it a different way. Who has the right interpretation, you, or the men who could have asked him what he meant?
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Eden
Guest
“Households being baptised” without qualifiers like “except infants” is a good clue as to whether or not they were. Plus, you acknowledge the Christianity of the Early Church Fathers and I’ve shown you examples of their writings in which infant baptism in early Christianity is clear.
You also haven’t acknowledged that Jesus said to bring children to the faith (which in Greek uses also the word for “infants”).
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Mickey
Guest
Bingo!
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Eden
Guest
So, you are a successor to the Apostles and have the authority to speak on matters of faith and so do I and so does my husband and so does my neighbor. We are all bishops now? Why aren’t we reaching the same conclusions?
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imroc
Guest
So you are implying that in Acts 16:15, Acts 16:33 and 1 Cor 1:16 that none of the people in the house were children or infants? And even when it is said in scripture that baptism replaces circumcision, you are implying, even though scripture does not say so, that 12 years or so must pass before the new covenant people can come to the Lord as opposed to the old covenant people coming to the Lord in as little as 8 days?
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Eden
Guest
Originally Posted by Lazerlike42
*
Here’s a better question. In John’s gospel, we read in John 20:20-23 a verse the you interpret one way. However, those who learned directly from John interpret it a different way. Who has the right interpretation, you, or the men who could have asked him what he meant?*
Mickey:
*
Here’s a better question. In John’s gospel, we read in John 20:20-23 a verse the you interpret one way. However, those who learned directly from John interpret it a different way. Who has the right interpretation, you, or the men who could have asked him what he meant?*
Missed that. Double bingo!Bingo!
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mercygate
Guest
How conscious does the decision to follow Christ have to be? How much rational awareness is required to respond to the Holy Spirit? John the Baptist leapt for joy in his mother’s womb when Mary, pregnant with the Savior, greeted Elizabeth. The faith does not subside exclusively in my personal relationship with Jesus but resides also in the common witness of the whole Church and in the Christian community and the family who transmit it to me.
“Me and Jesus and a book” is not Christian communion.
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