Baptists can trace their history to NT times

[ExpectAMiracle]

Eden:

Good to see you are seeking Truth. I find it hard to believe anyone goes to RCIA just for kicks.

Actually it was for kicks. My truth lies in the Word of God not the rituals of a church. I just live among many catholics and have always had a curious nature as to where all these rituals came from. Plus I married a catholic, who was then saved in a protestant church and made the decision to follow Christ. She should be posting here more so than me. the tranformation in her life with Christ has been incredible. we are very blessed.

 

[Eden]

ExpectAMiracle:

Not debating that. But we don’t believe that a “miracle” is performed through the hands of a priest turning a man made object like a wafer into the body and blood of Christ.

Early Christians disagree with you. It’s right in the Bible, Christ’s institutes the Eucharist and it’s literal.

 

[Eden]

ExpectAMiracle:

Actually it was for kicks. My truth lies in the Word of God not the rituals of a church. I just live among many catholics and have always had a curious nature as to where all these rituals came from. Plus I married a catholic, who was then saved in a protestant church and made the decision to follow Christ. She should be posting here more so than me. the tranformation in her life with Christ has been incredible. we are very blessed.

I can’t see the transformation or the presence of Truth in you. You seem very angry and not at all at peace.

 

[JoeyWarren]

ExpectAMiracle:

Actually it was for kicks. My truth lies in the Word of God not the rituals of a church. I just live among many catholics and have always had a curious nature as to where all these rituals came from. Plus I married a catholic, who was then saved in a protestant church and made the decision to follow Christ. She should be posting here more so than me. the tranformation in her life with Christ has been incredible. we are very blessed.

Blessed? When you are so full of hate?

 

[MariaG]

bengal_fan:

Please inform us all on how baptists and anabaptists can trace their heritage to apostolic times. we’re listening, please tell us.

Focus people.

60 replies and counting and few are on even related to the OP question.

 

[ExpectAMiracle]

MariaG:

What about forum rules do you not comprehend?

Please explain? I asked an honest question. Why are you getting defensive?

 

[JoeyWarren]

I would then suggest no one respond to “ExpectAMiracle” for the remainder of the post.

 

[ExpectAMiracle]

JoeyWarren:

Blessed? When you are so full of hate?

Judge not. The origin of this post was filled with hate. I have really enjoyed the debate. I have no malice at all. I think a little debate is a good thing. My wife and I have had many of the same discussions. I think it’s good to challenge one’s belief’s from time to time and I have learned something for you all today as well.

 

[Mickey]

Again I entreat you, brethren, since God is love, he is not well-pleased by things that take place without love. How would God accept prayer, or gifts, or first fruits, or offering from a murderer, unless they first repented in accordance with God’s word? But you will no doubt say to me, ‘I am not a murderer.’ And I will prove to you that you are, or rather John the Theologian will convict you, when he says, ‘Every one who hates their brother is a homicide.’
St Ephrem the Syrian

 

[Eden]

Does anyone know when the “Trail of Blood” theory was created? Are it’s origins in the 20th century or a little earlier?

 

[rstegeman]

As a Catholic, I truly believe that my Church was the one that Christ charged Peter with leading. However, I don’t like to bash any other Christian congregation (or any other faith for that matter). I have known very good Christian people of most every denomination, likewise, if we choose to open our eyes, we would acknowledge that there are any hypocrites among every denomination as well. So many times, we like to focus on hypocrital types in other faiths to base our judgements on them. Therein lies the problem, we are JUDGING. Let’s instead be thankful that those who are leading good Christian lives, regardless of their denominational affiliation, have found Christ regardless of the path. Let us also pray for those of us who are not so strong in faith to find our way again.

Instead of trying to find the faults in other churches (which we can all do), let’s try to live according to our faith and lead by example. Regardless of what church you belong, if you believe and follow the teachings, you should be leading a good, respectable life. Not to sound hokey but…just live as Christ said in Luke 10:25-28: “…‘Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’ He said to him, ‘What is written in the law? How do you read?’ And he answered, ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heard, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.’ And he said to him, ‘You have answered right; do this, and you will live.’”

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Thank you to all who have stayed on topic in this thread.

Please continue to do so.

Rachel

 

[Mickey]

It is usually the landmarkist baptists who claim origin to apostolic times. However, most other baptists reject this claim.

 

[pnewton]

I think the best way to address the issue of the Baptist trail of blood theory is to examine the theology of the groups it passes through. Many of which had bizarre and decidely un-Baptist ideas. If anyone every promulgates this notion (unlikely), then do a quick search on some of the groups they claim as precursors to their faith. The only on I remember off hand is the Waldenses.

The biggest problem you may fun into is when some one suggest that for a few hundred years at a time the Baptist were all hidden because of Catholic persecution. This is a losing battle since you can not something that is supposed to be hidden.

I do not think the issue is a big one, though since few Baptists but this idea. Most recognize a late protestant era begining and a desire to return to the scripture alone.

 

[Steadfast]

They claim groups which are “mildly heretical” like the Donatists and the Montanists, (yes, I know there’s no such thing as “mildly heretical”), as well as more seriously heretical groups like the Cathars and Albigenses (which appear to be two names for more or less the same gnostic movement in medieval southern France).

These last two are not even Christian but ecstatic dualists who used Christian language to cloak their error.

The Waldenses are a different matter. The whole story would take far to long to tell but suffice to say that they baptized infants with the exception of a small subgroup known as the Petrobussians who did not.

Curiously, the Petrobrussians did not refrain from infant baptism because they were theologically opposed to the idea, rather, they did so because they (like the Donatists) did not believe that the established church had a clergy worthy of dispensing the sacrament.

So, there can be established no connection between Baptist churches today and the Apostolic Church. Both the Anabaptists and the Baptists are descendents of the Reformation (Baptists being English and Anabaptists continental though this doesn’t mean they’re at all similar beyond their shared belief in believer’s baptism, they aren’t, the only other possibile similarity might be some convergence of views on the relation of church and state).

Another question to ask would be whether the baptism of John the Baptist was given for the same purpose the Church baptizes today.

I do not know of a single reputable Protestant or Catholic Scholar who thinks it is.

 

[Brian_C]

You know, it’s funny. I was born and raised Southern Baptist and barely missed a Sunday for the first 18 years of my life, Sunday School and services. But I NEVER, EVER, was told ANYTHING about the history of the Baptist church. It’s just so funny b/c everyone thinks we (or Baptists) are so knowledgeable in scripture. This is one of the reasons I will “officially” no longer be a Baptist come April 16th.

 

[mike182d]

ExpectAMiracle:

mike:

I will pray for you. Jesus told Peter he was th rock and that he would build his church on that rock. My Bible says nothing about it being a Catholic rock.

Does your Bible have Jesus telling the Apostles to write down an account of His life? Does Jesus ever tell the Apostles to add Scripture to the existing Old Testament?

Well, golly, where on earth do you think they got the authority to add the New Testament to Scripture, then?

Unless you are very healthy you weren’t alive 2000 years ago either. So everything you know about Christ has come from the same scripture and stories we read.

Not quite. Oral tradition - the passing on of Christian teaching - existed before the Bible. In fact, the Bible itself is a product of this tradition and those that had the authority to continue this tradition are still around today. We call them Bishops and every single one can trace their lineage back to one of the original Apostles.

How many Baptists preachers can do the same?

 

[mike182d]

Brian_C:

You know, it’s funny. I was born and raised Southern Baptist and barely missed a Sunday for the first 18 years of my life, Sunday School and services. But I NEVER, EVER, was told ANYTHING about the history of the Baptist church. It’s just so funny b/c everyone thinks we (or Baptists) are so knowledgeable in scripture. This is one of the reasons I will “officially” no longer be a Baptist come April 16th.

Welcome home, brother

 

[mike182d]

ExpectAMiracle:

I didn’t argue we were the earliest Christians. I argued that the corruptness and violation of God’s word drove many from the “universal” church to take the scriptures and apply then for Jesus not for the gain, power and glory of the Catholic church.

Then how can you account for the teaching of the Baptist Church contradicting Christian teaching as early as the 2nd Century? When are you claiming this “split” happen? And if this split is legitimate, why does it contradict 2000 years of Christian teaching?

 

[mike182d]

ExpectAMiracle:

That has to be the funniest thing I have read all week! Once again, my point is proven. catholics are more concerned with followng a Church than following Christ.

I will pray that you read His Word and choose to have a personal walk with Him.

What point? The New Testament did not exist in the form you hold in your hands today until the 4th Century. What do you think Christians relied on before then? Who do you think decided that the books to be included in the New Testament actually were the word of God?

The Bible didn’t just float down from heaven in completed form nor did Christ ever tell the Apostles to write it. This was done of the Church’s authority. Thus, to believe in the authority of the Bible is to believe in the very same authority of the Church that deemed that Bible authoritative in the first place.

Otherwise, you might as well include the Gospel of Thomas or Mary Magdelene in there.