Baptists, Evangelicals and the Baptismal Sacrament

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Anna_Scott said:
Brent,
I didn’t see a response to this post. Maybe I missed it. Please let me know if I did. 🙂
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I have not been on the forum in a while, my apologies.

I am confused- so you are not saying that water baptism saves you? I agree with that. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the saving baptism.

Brent
 
I have a strong feeling that amoung Evangelicals nothing much can be considered concrete and most if not all is spiritualised. This is exemplified with the “getting saved” paradigm, that is it seems to be the only thing that matters.

It seems that some who claim to be sola-scriptura only accept sola scriptura when it agrees with a previously arrived at theological conclusion and other times not so much.

I am speaking of those who ignore the many verses that downright state that baptism (no water qualifier needed) actually forgives sin.

So you may say "but that’s sooo Catholic, let me remind you that neither Anna or myself is Catholic, we just use all the scriptures.

The most anti-Catholic denomination to exist the southern accapella “churches of Christ” agrees that baptism forgives sin.
 
brentAL said:
I have not been on the forum in a while, my apologies.

I am confused- so you are not saying that water baptism saves you? I agree with that. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the saving baptism.

Brent
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Baptism is ***part ***of salvation, the washing away of original sin and entering into Covenant with God. However, salvation is a life long journey. The New Testament gives many requirements in the journey to salvation.

The idea that one can pray the sinner’s prayer and find eternal assurance of salvation is troublesome, when you consider the whole of Scripture. Baptists are starting to realize there are problems with this doctrine.

This is a “copy and paste” from another thread:

**Thread: Southern Baptists: “Sinner’s Prayer not a magical incantation”
**
See quote from David Platt on March 1 (leading up to the Convention) calling the Sinner’s Prayer “unbiblical and damning.”

Pratt points out the fact that the Bible never uses the phrase, “accept Jesus into your heart” or “invite Christ into your life.”

It’s a very interesting article. I can’t quote sections of it due to copyright restrictions.

Click here to read: Resolutions address sinner’s prayer, gay marriage
Anna
 
andrewstx said:
I have a strong feeling that amoung Evangelicals nothing much can be considered concrete and most if not all is spiritualised. This is exemplified with the “getting saved” paradigm, that is it seems to be the only thing that matters.

It seems that some who claim to be sola-scriptura only accept sola scriptura when it agrees with a previously arrived at theological conclusion and other times not so much.

I am speaking of those who ignore the many verses that downright state that baptism (no water qualifier needed) actually forgives sin.

So you may say "but that’s sooo Catholic, let me remind you that neither Anna or myself is Catholic, we just use all the scriptures.

The most anti-Catholic denomination to exist the southern accapella “churches of Christ” agrees that baptism forgives sin.
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👍

Andrew,

The most shocking thing I’ve ever read is the Bible. When you read it beginning to end, things look very different. The Sacraments leap off the pages. Add the witness of the early Church—and. . .well. . .it’s difficult to remain Southern Baptist.

Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
👍

Andrew,

The most shocking thing I’ve ever read is the Bible. When you read it beginning to end, things look very different. The Sacraments leap off the pages. Add the witness of the early Church—and. . .well. . .it’s difficult to remain Southern Baptist.

Anna
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I believe that is what helped me in my conversion as well. When I sat down to read the Sacred Scriptures, I noticed that my Southern Baptist beliefs, which were fragile at best, were way off base.
 
aidanbradypop said:
I believe that is what helped me in my conversion as well. When I sat down to read the Sacred Scriptures, I noticed that my Southern Baptist beliefs, which were fragile at best, were way off base.
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Pop (Pope ;))

I think part of the problem is that the indoctrination is so strong. Southern Baptists claim they follow Scripture only. I claimed the same when I first came to CAF. In reality, Baptists are following their leaders’ interpretation of Scripture. Their doctrine only works if you use a select few passages, and ignore others. Fortunately, there is quite a discussion going on among Baptist leaders, as I noted previously. Some are realizing that the Sinner’s Prayer may not be the ticket to heaven in the way it has been used for so long. I hope our Baptist friends will give serious thought to the issues we are discussing and the Scripture presented. I believe their heart is in the right place. Brent represents his faith well in the charity of his posts. I’m always happy to see that, 🙂

Also, I think in the world of reformed Protestantism (I realize Anglicanism is reformed to a degree); descriptions are used to describe their faith: “born again Christian,”,Bible believing Christian," etc. Yet, Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox (most criticized) also are born again and also believe in the Bible.

Ironically, when you look at the liturgy of Sacramental corporate worship centered around the Holy Eucharist; you will find an expanded and more in depth version of the Sinner’s Prayer. The major difference is, of course, Sacramental Grace.

Great discussion.

Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
Pop (Pope ;))

I think part of the problem is that the indoctrination is so strong. Southern Baptists claim they follow Scripture only. I claimed the same when I first came to CAF. In reality, Baptists are following their leaders’ interpretation of Scripture. Their doctrine only works if you use a select few passages, and ignore others. Fortunately, there is quite a discussion going on among Baptist leaders, as I noted previously. Some are realizing that the Sinner’s Prayer may not be the ticket to heaven in the way it has been used for so long. I hope our Baptist friends will give serious thought to the issues we are discussing and the Scripture presented. I believe their heart is in the right place. Brent represents his faith well in the charity of his posts. I’m always happy to see that, 🙂

Also, I think in the world of reformed Protestantism (I realize Anglicanism is reformed to a degree); descriptions are used to describe their faith: “born again Christian,”,Bible believing Christian," etc. Yet, Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox (most criticized) also are born again and also believe in the Bible.

Ironically, when you look at the liturgy of Sacramental corporate worship centered around the Holy Eucharist; you will find an expanded and more in depth version of the Sinner’s Prayer. The major difference is, of course, Sacramental Grace.

Great discussion.

Anna
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Well said!

I believe, like you, that all the Christian denominations mean well and are sincerely seeking God. Whether they practice a believer’s baptism or infant, there are still baptizing people and for that we need to praise God. It makes me smile to see someone defend their faith! If JonNC, Benjohnson, brent and anyone else came on here without defending their faith, I would question their faith.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
I’m curious as to how you think John’s baptism forgave sins? I might have missed as I was more conversing with stew and was not following your conversation as closely.
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Hi Gaelic - still waiting for the scriptural evidence that baptism, as a command from God, is to be done as a public display of one’s faith…

:bible1:
 
stewstew03 said:
Hi Gaelic - still waiting for the scriptural evidence that baptism, as a command from God, is to be done as a public display of one’s faith…

:bible1:
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stew…about 50 posts ago, I said that it wasn’t that.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
stew…about 50 posts ago, I said that it wasn’t that.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, Gaelic, but your baptism theology seems to be rather lukewarm: Baptism has absolutely no regenerative effect, but it is a ritual that has “personal” meaning.
 
stewstew03 said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, Gaelic, but your baptism theology seems to be rather lukewarm: Baptism has absolutely no regenerative effect, but it is a ritual that has “personal” meaning.
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Well, every ritual has personal meaning. Unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean by personal meaning. On the contrary, it has ecclesiastical meaning and communal meaning. It identifies someone as part of the Body of Christ and as someone who is united to the life, death and resurrection of Christ.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
Well, every ritual has personal meaning. Unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean by personal meaning. On the contrary, it has ecclesiastical meaning and communal meaning. It identifies someone as part of the Body of Christ and as someone who is united to the life, death and resurrection of Christ.
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“ECCLESIASTICAL MEANING?” “COMMUNAL MEANING?” :eek:

Sorry for the intrusion guys. I couldn’ help myself.
 
stewstew03 said:
I remember that discussion Anna! 👍

And didn’t you and I find out (during that discussion) that we both attended CFBC at some point (though probably not at the same time)…?
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Stew,

Yes, we did. You were telling me that things were changing in the teaching coming out of that Church. It took a lot of convincing. I didn’t mean to be difficult, but I was rather difficult. 😃

Anna
 
aidanbradypop said:
Well said!

I believe, like you, that all the Christian denominations mean well and are sincerely seeking God. Whether they practice a believer’s baptism or infant, there are still baptizing people and for that we need to praise God. It makes me smile to see someone defend their faith! If JonNC, Benjohnson, brent and anyone else came on here without defending their faith, I would question their faith.
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Pope, I mean Pop. 😃

Of course we do defend our faith and beliefs. It takes courage for Baptists, Evangelicals, Fundamentalists, etc. to post and defend beliefs on CAF–since there are so many Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. who disagree. It’s tough. I’ve been there.

Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
Pope, I mean Pop. 😃

Of course we do defend our faith and beliefs. It takes courage for Baptists, Evangelicals, Fundamentalists, etc. to post and defend beliefs on CAF–since there are so many Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. who disagree. It’s tough. I’ve been there.

Anna
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Too bad all Catholics did not start out as Protestant. I believe it gives one a better understanding on both sides.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
… It identifies someone as part of the Body of Christ and as someone who is united to the life, death and resurrection of Christ.
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Is this not the same thing as saying - “it is a public display of one’s faith…”?
 
stewstew03 said:
Is this not the same thing as saying - “it is a public display of one’s faith…”?
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It is only inasmuch as anything we do as Christians is a profession of faith. Clearly, a Catholic who receives communion professes faith, but you wouldnt reduce it to being only that.
 
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