Baptized Catholic, raised agnostic, moving back towards Christianity, but I want to move to Russia. If I become Orthodox, will I go to hell?

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From Unitatis Redintegratio, Vatican II’s document on ecumenism:

“These Churches, although separated from us, possess true sacraments, above all by apostolic succession, the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are linked with us in closest intimacy. Therefore some worship in common (communicatio in sacris ), given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not only possible but to be encouraged.”

If the Orthodox Churches are “outside the Church” why would the Church say that the Orthodox are true Churches, have apostolic succession, a valid priesthood and a valid Eucharist? Why would they allow us as Catholics to receive their sacraments? Of course there would need to be certain circumstances for approval, but still, the Church allows for it.

The “schism” between East and West is internal, a break of communion within the Church, not outside of it.

ZP
 
ziapueblo said:
“These Churches, although separated from us, possess true sacraments, above all by apostolic succession, the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are linked with us in closest intimacy. Therefore some worship in common ( communicatio in sacris ), given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not only possible but to be encouraged.”
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The quote you provided says they are separated. They are particular churches, but they are particular churches because a particular church is a bishop and congregation celebrating a common eucharist) that are separated from the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church we profess in the Creed. The EO Churches cannot be said to be the one Church of Christ–they are not included in that sole, unique, perduring existence–that subsistence–of the one Church of Christ

Dominus Iesus
The interpretation of those who would derive from the formula subsistit in the thesis that the one Church of Christ could subsist also in non-Catholic Churches and ecclesial communities is therefore contrary to the authentic meaning of Lumen gentium. “The Council instead chose the word subsistit precisely to clarify that there exists only one ‘subsistence’ of the true Church, while outside her visible structure there only exist elementa Ecclesiae, which — being elements of that same Church — tend and lead toward the Catholic Church”
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The Decree on the Eastern Churches from Vatican II itself notes that “[t]he Holy Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ, is made up of the faithful who are organically united in the Holy Spirit by the same faith, the same sacraments and the same government…”

Lumen Gentium says the Church is “an entity with visible delineation” and those visible bonds “are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion” and that said government consists of “the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him.”

If we were all one Church, we wouldn’t have ecumenism. EOs themselves will vigorously deny being one catholic Church with us.

As for salvation, someone in good faith can certainly benefit from the sacraments they received from the EO Churches unto salvation, by virtue of those sacraments properly belonging to the Catholic Church. They would not be “outside” the Church in in terms of what is necessary for salvation. But if not in good faith, one would be guilty of schism, which excludes from salvation.
 
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I would encourage you to seek the Catholic Church in Russia. While they are HQ’d out of Vladivostok, The Mary Mother of God Mission Society, Fr Dan and Fr Myron, they can help you.

www.vladmission.org
 
OP, have you lived in Russia for any length of time? It takes a very long time for the society to change, and I’m not sure that Russia is the traditional Christian society you are after. Many agnostic/atheist values there still. As an example, abortion is used like a form of birth control - far worse than here in the US.

Provided that you’ve lived there and like it, as far as religion is concerned, what you want to look for is the true Church of God, not a religion that happens to be convenient where you live. Deciding on a religion based on what churches are available in your area is backwards approach.

The Catholic Church is the one True Church that God himself not only established but continues to run as the supreme priest and king. God can’t be separated from the Catholic Church. So if you want to belong to a church that offers the most direct path to heaven, and one that’s most pleasing to God, the Catholic Church is it. Objectively speaking, leaving the Church is a grave sin that leads to hell, like all unrepentant grave sins do. Of course only God can judge your soul, and no one here can tell you if becoming Orthodox will lead you personally to hell. The objective though should be not just to “make it” to heaven but to live life pleasing to God. You can be a Catholic in Russia.

Pack warm! Saint Petersburg is very very cold! Moscow is a little warmer, but I hear it’s very expensive. My parents’ friends moved back to Russia after they retired. They like it there with American dollars.

By the way, look into L’viv in Ukraine. I heard it’s a very Catholic city. I want to visit it one day.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
“The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her… No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” - Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino, 1441

It doesn’t get any clearer than that.
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Is that still true today, or has the teaching been changed so that a Jew may be saved if he does not convert to Roman Catholicism?
 
AlNg said:
“The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her… No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” - Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino, 1441

It doesn’t get any clearer than that.
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The teaching has not been changed, but the emphasis has. In recent years — and by this I mean the last half of the 20th century to this day — the Church takes great pains to acknowledge the subjective dispositions of anyone and everyone, and to hold out the hope of salvation to all, regardless of whether they accept the full teaching of Jesus Christ in his one true Catholic Church, or not. This means that missionary activity, and indeed conversion itself, is no longer seen as “saving the lost”, but rather, inviting those who may seek God in less-than-complete ways to come into the fullness of His truth. That’s quite a difference.

This mindset would have come as a great surprise to those missionaries and martyrs who suffered horrible torture and death at the hands of the people to whom they witnessed. Modern-day fundamentalist and evangelical Christians aren’t known for considering the subjective dispositions of “unsaved” people — think of the missionary who suffered death at the hands of the Sentinel Islanders not too long ago.
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There is an Eastern Rite Catholic Church there called Russian Greek Catholic Church. It is in full communion with the Pope (sui iuris).
 
aroosi said:
It is not so uncommon to have huge dioceses in areas with not many Catholics or a largely unpopulated area.
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My EC Byzantine nee Ruthenian Eparchy (diocese) is, roughly, the eastern half of the US . . .
 
Genesis315 said:
The quote you provided says they are separated.
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I never said we were in full communion.

So the Church allows us to receive the Eucharist from a Church that is outside the Church? Why would the Church allow for us to go outside of itself? Honest question.

In places like Romania and Syria, Greek Catholics and Orthodox see each other as the same where intercommunion is a “thing” if you will. This is also a “thing” in some parts of the US.
Genesis315 said:
Dominus Iesus
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A good friend of mine, someone that I know and trust made this statement to me sometime ago:

“Dominus Iesus was intended for the Latin bishops of India who were busily syncretizing to the point of referring to ecclesial communities as “Sister Churches”. I was present when Edward Idris Cardinal Cassidy explained all this, along with his displeasure at the CDF for having released the document without (name removed by moderator)ut from the Pontifical Secretariat for Promoting Christian Unity, and how the document was being misinterpreted by both Orthodox and Roman Catholic zealots alike.”

So like many documents, even councils, Dominus Iesus was prompted by an issue going on within the Church in a particular place at a particular time and people tend to universalize those things.
Genesis315 said:
EOs themselves will vigorously deny being one catholic Church with us.
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There are zealots on both sides.

Again, in this thread, or any other thread, I have never said that the Catholic and Orthodox are in full communion with one another. Only that the “separation,” the word used in Unitatis Redintegratio as you pointed out, is internal.

Thank you for your response @Genesis315. I enjoy reading them and your comments, whether on this thread on any other topic on this forum are always thoughtful and well written unlike mine which, in my opinion, are often defensive lol.

ZP
 
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