Baptizing a 10 year old

[Phemie]

Thank you for the clarification. I understand that Confirmation should occur between the age of reason and the age of 16, according to the U.S. Bishops Conference. I would think that an older age would be more appropriate, for then the Confirmand would be better able to understand and assent to what he/she is undertaking. In the RCIA program, I can see where Confirmation would occur at the same time, but I am not sure I follow the reasoning for performing all the sacraments at the same time for someone who is 8 or 9 years old.

My opinion is that Confirmation should occur at an even older age than 15 or 16, and be a true personal and mature decision to become a “full” member of the Church. Today it seems almost as automatic as Baptism, which for me takes away much of the signficance of the Sacrament.

Confirmation isn’t about what the confirmand does but what the sacrament does to the confirmand. It’s not a sacrament of maturity nor about commitment since one is a full member of the church from the time one is baptized. Babies who are in danger of dying are to be baptized AND confirmed if possible – but in the Latin Rite they can’t receive Communion since for that they must be able to understand what they are doing.

Both Canon Law and the Catechism list Confirmation as the 2nd sacrament of initiation, not the 3rd and last. Eucharist was the culmination of initiation until 100 years ago and several dioceses have taken steps to return the sacraments to their original order at the age of reason.

Consider the fact that at the age of 10 the child is making her own commitment to be baptized. That is THE commitment – Confirmation completes that but is in no way a greater commitment.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Ok, thanks for the info about the Canon Law. My mistake.

My parish did have RCIA but I was a very unusual case, so maybe I fell under the “grave reasons” clause?..I had been raised Catholic my whole life (taken to weekly Mass, CCD classes, etc. by my grandma) without ever being baptized or receiving the rest of the sacraments. When my parents finally allowed me to be baptised, the priest didn’t see any reason for me to go through RCIA since I’d been otherwise raised up in the Faith and had already been through years of CCD. I have no idea why I wasn’t immediately Confirmed then, if it was Canon Law then as well as it is now. (This was the mid 90’s).

In the parishes I’ve known, it’s the norm to confirm kids around the age of 13-16. It does seem odd that someone who’s brought into the Church at the age of 7 or 8 would be confirmed immediately when everyone else in the parish had to wait till they’re 13 or so. (Just a personal observation, not challenging the official rules! )

I can see your special circumstances, the pastor can request permission from the Bishop. Most generally will say wait until the Easter Vigil, unless someone is very old or ill. It does pose an difficulity but also a teaching opportunity for the other young people.

 

[ac_claire]

Grave reasons would be a severe illness or something, there are Pastors who sidestep Canon Law - prayers for all of them!

I don’t deny that my pastor could have just side-stepped the Canon Law. It’s just, if I remember correctly, the main consideration was that I be baptized ASAP. Baptism is a matter of life and death, after all. It was summer, Easter Vigil was almost a year away and I didn’t need to go through RCIA since I had been a “member” so to speak of this parish since I was 2 years old, so I think they were just like…“ok, let’s get this gal baptized!” lol. Parents are urged to not wait to baptize newborn babies…so, if one doesn’t need RCIA, no reason to wait till the Easter Vigil.

ETA: About the confirmation thing, is it still true that a bishop is the only one who can do a confirmation? If so, maybe that’s why my priest waited?

(OP, sorry to hijack your thread…this will be my last personal question. )

 

[puzzleannie]

but there isn’t any Canon law that I know of that says they must all happen at the same time, or at a certain time of year. If that helps you at all.

the sacramental rites of the Church are part of the law of the church. The canon law specifies what constitutes a sacrament, who may receive sacraments, when, and how. The rites, including specifically for this discussion the ritual book for RCIA specify the nuts and bolts of what happens, when, to whom, who says and does what. And yes the norm foreseen in RCIA is baptism, confirmation and 1st communion in the same celebration at the Easter Vigil. Like most of the rites, it also allows for exceptional circumstance and other decisions based on pastoral necessity. None of those have yet arisen in this discussion which is why the couple have been advised to speak to their own priest about their own family’s situation and needs. Just because there may have been a good reason for such an exception in your case or someone else’s case, does not make it a general rule. The question on confirmation and who may confirm has already been answered.

 

[KarenElissa]

ETA: About the confirmation thing, is it still true that a bishop is the only one who can do a confirmation? If so, maybe that’s why my priest waited?

The ordinary minister of confirmation is still the Bishop. The Bishop can allow other priests to confirm, and almost always does for Easter Vigil, but he can also reserve that privilege for himself. So yes, that may be why you were confirmed at a later time.

 

[choy]

i just taught confirmation last sunday at PREP

confirmation is to be done when the person is at an age of reason. and the specific age is to be determined by the local bishop

 

[Brendan]

I can see your special circumstances, the pastor can request permission from the Bishop. Most generally will say wait until the Easter Vigil, unless someone is very old or ill. It does pose an difficulity but also a teaching opportunity for the other young people.

I agree that a formal RCIA program should be designed so that the catechumens are brought in during the Easter Vigil, but, as the CDWDS noted about regulations on the age of Confirmation, it should also be viewed in light of the universal norms.

Specifically, that those who have been properly instructed already and desire the Sacraments, should not have them withheld from them.

Especially in the case of Baptism. that is too great a gift to withhold from someone who HAS been properly instructed and desires it.

In the case of RCIA, the period of instruction is timed to end at Easter Vigil, so that the catechumens achieve the necessary understanding at that time, and thus they may properly present themselves at the Easter Vigil.

But this girl had already completed the necessary period of study, and it would therefore be an unjustice to withhold the Sacrament from her.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I agree that a formal RCIA program should be designed so that the catechumens are brought in during the Easter Vigil, but, as the CDWDS noted about regulations on the age of Confirmation, it should also be viewed in light of the universal norms.

Specifically, that those who have been properly instructed already and desire the Sacraments, should not have them withheld from them.

Especially in the case of Baptism. that is too great a gift to withhold from someone who HAS been properly instructed and desires it.

In the case of RCIA, the period of instruction is timed to end at Easter Vigil, so that the catechumens achieve the necessary understanding at that time, and thus they may properly present themselves at the Easter Vigil.

But this girl had already completed the necessary period of study, and it would therefore be an unjustice to withhold the Sacrament from her.

The way this reads is that those that are properly disposed and present themselves for reception of Confirmation, however it requires that those presenting themselves to be properly disposed as already being validly Baptized. An un-Baptized person cannot present themselves to receive any other Sacrament. The Rites of the Church have a Sponsor present a Catechumen for Baptism, they don’t present themselves and demand Batism.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

The ordinary minister of confirmation is still the Bishop. The Bishop can allow other priests to confirm, and almost always does for Easter Vigil, but he can also reserve that privilege for himself. So yes, that may be why you were confirmed at a later time.

Except when a priest Baptizes an Adult, the law gives him the ability to Confirm that adult at the time of Baptism. Permission of the Bishop to confirm is not necessary in that case. I also believe that a priest requires the Bishops permission to Baptize an Adult (except in case of serious necessity) This is why the Bishop signs the Book of the Elect containing the names of those to be Baptized at the Easter Vigil.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

i just taught confirmation last sunday at PREP

confirmation is to be done when the person is at an age of reason. and the specific age is to be determined by the local bishop

Just to claify, this would apply to a person Baptized as an infant. Not an adult (a person over the age of reason) seeking Baptism.

 

[CDNowak]

i just taught confirmation last sunday at PREP

confirmation is to be done when the person is at an age of reason. and the specific age is to be determined by the local bishop

However, the bishop cannot withhold the Sacrament from anyone who meets the Church’s requirements (Baptized, above the age of reason(that is, about 7), catechesis appropriate to the age).

 

[ac_claire]

I agree that a formal RCIA program should be designed so that the catechumens are brought in during the Easter Vigil, but, as the CDWDS noted about regulations on the age of Confirmation, it should also be viewed in light of the universal norms.

Specifically, that those who have been properly instructed already and desire the Sacraments, should not have them withheld from them.

Especially in the case of Baptism. that is too great a gift to withhold from someone who HAS been properly instructed and desires it.

In the case of RCIA, the period of instruction is timed to end at Easter Vigil, so that the catechumens achieve the necessary understanding at that time, and thus they may properly present themselves at the Easter Vigil.

But this girl had already completed the necessary period of study, and it would therefore be an unjustice to withhold the Sacrament from her.

I agree. The Church looks at people as individuals. What I’ve been realizing just from reading online is that there are numerous such “excpetions”. Which is not to say the rules are to be overlooked or are unimportant. But sometimes the beurocratic red tape can overshadow the fact that the whole point is the Sacrament, not that the “official process” has been followed to a “t”.

It’s like making two people who want to get married go through six months of expensive and extensive courses…Pre-Cana, NFP, conflict resolution, financial counselling, etc., etc. I know that these programs can serve their purpose, but in some cases it effectively acts as a barrier to the Sacrament of matrimony. It can reach a point, in certain cases, of being ridiculous and unjust.

 

[ac_claire]

Except when a priest Baptizes an Adult, the law gives him the ability to Confirm that adult at the time of Baptism. Permission of the Bishop to confirm is not necessary in that case. I also believe that a priest requires the Bishops permission to Baptize an Adult (except in case of serious necessity) This is why the Bishop signs the Book of the Elect containing the names of those to be Baptized at the Easter Vigil.

Really, a priest has to have the Bishop’s permission to baptize an adult?

 

[Joannm]

Really, a priest has to have the Bishop’s permission to baptize an adult?

I don’t think so as our priests have never requested the faculty. I know when confirming an adult Catholic they need permission. In fact I am the one who fills out and sends in the paperwork to the chancellor. I have never done so for an adult baptism.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Really, a priest has to have the Bishop’s permission to baptize an adult?

The Bishop is responsible for Adult Baptism, normally this “permission” to Baptize specific adults is handled by the Rite of Election when the Bishop signs the Book of the Elect ,listing the names of those to be Baptized at the Easter Vigil. In case of emergency a priest does not need the Bishops permission, but must if possible, Confirm and if possible, give Holy Communion at the time of Baptism. (An adult is anyone over the age of Reason about 7)

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I don’t think so as our priests have never requested the faculty. I know when confirming an adult Catholic they need permission. In fact I am the one who fills out and sends in the paperwork to the chancellor. I have never done so for an adult baptism.

Because adult Baptisms should always take place at the Easter Vigil, unless it’s an serious emergency, and no permission is required in that case.

 

[ac_claire]

Because adult Baptisms should always take place at the Easter Vigil, unless it’s an serious emergency, and no permission is required in that case.

Ok but…for centuries the Church would send missionaries out to foreign lands to preach the Gospel…and the missionaries would baptize people the same day. Since Baptism is literally a matter of eternal life vs. eternal death, seems like any case could be viewed as an “emergency” of sorts. Or, “grave necessity” perhaps.

As I understand it, if a person is at the age of reason and knows and understands the Faith, and they want to be baptized, then they may receive the Sacrament of Baptism. Right? Once again, the way it’s presented here it almost makes it seem like the classes and the certain time of year are more important than the Sacrament.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Ok but…for centuries the Church would send missionaries out to foreign lands to preach the Gospel…and the missionaries would baptize people the same day. Since Baptism is literally a matter of eternal life vs. eternal death, seems like any case could be viewed as an “emergency” of sorts. Or, “grave necessity” perhaps.

As I understand it, if a person is at the age of reason and knows and understands the Faith, and they want to be baptized, then they may receive the Sacrament of Baptism. Right? Once again, the way it’s presented here it almost makes it seem like the classes and the certain time of year are more important than the Sacrament.

But we are but talking about the middle of the Amazon here. I know some cities here are called “Concrete Jungles”!

 

[puzzleannie]

OkAs I understand it, if a person is at the age of reason and knows and understands the Faith, and they want to be baptized, then they may receive the Sacrament of Baptism. Right? Once again, the way it’s presented here it almost makes it seem like the classes and the certain time of year are more important than the Sacrament.

the sacrament may not be denied to any adult who is prepared and worthily disposed and asks for the sacrament. The bishop decides who is prepared and worthily disposed. The manner for arriving at that condition is the RCIA in all its prescriptions, as adapted by the US Bishops for use in the US and as particular law enacted by the bishop of each dioceses implements. Period. The RCIA acknowledges the special status of catechumens, that should they die before baptism they are presumed to have desired the sacrament and therefore are according Christian burial etc.

There is no need to introduce any argument here, nor to push personal opinion as guideline for the universal Church. The Church has every contingency well in hand, and it merely remains for these parents to consult their priest on the proper course of action for their individual family situation. case closed. I decline to respond to off topic comments

 

[kage_ar]

Ok but…for centuries the Church would send missionaries out to foreign lands to preach the Gospel…and the missionaries would baptize people the same day. Since Baptism is literally a matter of eternal life vs. eternal death, seems like any case could be viewed as an “emergency” of sorts. Or, “grave necessity” perhaps.

Actually, these missionaries would either stay in place or leave a trained Catechist in place to instruct the converts for a period of 2-3 years. The RCIA process was far more detailed and understood to be very important. Only after this instruction and verification by the Sponsors that the person was prepared would the converts be baptized, confirmed and have FHC at the Easter Vigil.