Baptizing babies

[billcu1]

This is kind of a hypothetical because I have no kids and I am curious and who knows maybe someone out there will be helped with this.

Is it required that you baptize a baby or infant? Can you let them get to the age where confirmation is coming up and they are to have their first communion and then they get baptized?

 

[1ke]

Is it required that you baptize a baby or infant?

Yes. Catholic parents have a solemn obligation to baptize their children ASAP.

Can.* 867 §1. Parents are obliged to take care that infants are baptized in the first few weeks; as soon as possible after the birth or even before it, they are to go to the pastor to request the sacrament for their child and to be prepared properly for it.

§2. An infant in danger of death is to be baptized without delay.

Can you let them get to the age where confirmation is coming up and they are to have their first communion and then they get baptized?

NO. This would be grave matter to not baptize your child.

A child over the age of reason would have to be brought into the Church through the RCIA process. They are an adult at that point. they are not a Catholic and the parent would have seriously neglected their duty to bring their child to the sacraments at the appropriate time and also to properly educate their child in the faith. You cannot just show up and expect the child to receive all the sacraments.

 

[mikekle]

So, if a baby dies without being baptized, they end up in Hell? Im sorry, but I do not believe this.

It actually makes more sense for the church to wait to baptize people, that way, the person understands what is happening and can answer the priests questions regarding if they commit their lives to Christ and reject Satan.

Over 12 years ago, when I went thru my Pentecostal phase, I was baptized in their church, yet I was in my early 20s at the time, I stood in waist deep water in a special tub behind the altar in the church, when the preacher asked me if I reject Satan and accept Jesus as my savior, I said Yes and I was dunked underwater, upon coming up, he told me I had been cleansed of all my sins prior to this baptism, even though I was also baptized as a baby in the catholic church. I worried if this was legit as a result of this and really still do to some degree.

I also think about mass murders that were baptized as infants, look at how they grew up…they obviously did not reject Satan, so their baptism was a waste of time, Again, imo, it makes more sense to me to wait for a baptism, an infant cannot understand what is even occurring, yet it is said to be very important to their lives…?

 

[jmcrae]

So, if a baby dies without being baptized, they end up in Hell? Im sorry, but I do not believe this.

Where in this thread did anyone suggest such a thing?

It actually makes more sense for the church to wait to baptize people, that way, the person understands what is happening and can answer the priests questions regarding if they commit their lives to Christ and reject Satan.

That makes as much sense as waiting until the child is old enough to choose what his native language will be (because what if he has things to say that can’t be said in English?) or waiting until he is old enough to understand and make a vow of fidelity to the Queen before letting him have Canadian citizenship.

If you wouldn’t wait to give the child a language or citizenship, then why wait to give him a relationship with God?

If he rejects it later, that’s his own business, but it is the parent’s duty to raise up the child in the right way, to begin with.

 

[1ke]

So, if a baby dies without being baptized, they end up in Hell? Im sorry, but I do not believe this.

We don’t know.

Christ himself tells us the baptism is necessary for salvation. We do not know if or how God chooses to operate outside his sacraments. That is why it is a grave duty to baptize infants-- because Christ commands that we baptize.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P3M.HTM

We should never put God to the test by neglecting our duty to baptize.

CCC 1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"63 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

It actually makes more sense for the church to wait to baptize people, that way, the person understands what is happening and can answer the priests questions regarding if they commit their lives to Christ and reject Satan.

If one misunderstands what baptism is, then that would be logical. But when you understand baptism remits Original Sin and incorporates us into the Body of Christ, it is clear that withholding this from children goes against God’s plan for salvation.

Over 12 years ago, when I went thru my Pentecostal phase, I was baptized in their church, yet I was in my early 20s at the time, I stood in waist deep water in a special tub behind the altar in the church, when the preacher asked me if I reject Satan and accept Jesus as my savior, I said Yes and I was dunked underwater, upon coming up, he told me I had been cleansed of all my sins prior to this baptism, even though I was also baptized as a baby in the catholic church. I worried if this was legit as a result of this and really still do to some degree.

You were not baptized by this pentacostal preacher and no sins were forgiven when you got wet that day. Please go to confession.

I also think about mass murders that were baptized as infants, look at how they grew up…they obviously did not reject Satan, so their baptism was a waste of time

I don’t think you properly understand baptism if you think any baptism is a waste of time.

Again, imo, it makes more sense to me to wait for a baptism, an infant cannot understand what is even occurring, yet it is said to be very important to their lives…?

It is of the utmost importance.

 

[billcu1]

Yes. Catholic parents have a solemn obligation to baptize their children ASAP.

Can.* 867 §1. Parents are obliged to take care that infants are baptized in the first few weeks; as soon as possible after the birth or even before it, they are to go to the pastor to request the sacrament for their child and to be prepared properly for it.

§2. An infant in danger of death is to be baptized without delay.

NO. This would be grave matter to not baptize your child.

A child over the age of reason would have to be brought into the Church through the RCIA process. They are an adult at that point. they are not a Catholic and the parent would have seriously neglected their duty to bring their child to the sacraments at the appropriate time and also to properly educate their child in the faith. You cannot just show up and expect the child to receive all the sacraments.

How would §2 be complied with? What about a miscarrage? If the OB or whoever is taking care of the woman’s pregnancy says this child might not make it; how would they be baptized? While still in the womb I mean?

 

[jmcrae]

How would §2 be complied with?

The child’s parent, or a nurse, can baptize a child in hospital if the priest would be delayed too long in arriving. (Most hospitals have a Catholic priest on staff.)

What about a miscarrage? If the OB or whoever is taking care of the woman’s pregnancy says this child might not make it; how would they be baptized? While still in the womb I mean?

We aren’t required to attempt the impossible, but when the child comes out of the womb (as she must, at some point, whether dead or alive), someone can immediately do a conditional baptism, saying, "Child, if you are still alive, I baptize thee in the name of the Father … " etc.

 

[bzkoss236]

How would §2 be complied with? What about a miscarrage? If the OB or whoever is taking care of the woman’s pregnancy says this child might not make it; how would they be baptized? While still in the womb I mean?

A baby is not considered an infant until after birth.

 

[1ke]

How would §2 be complied with? What about a miscarrage? If the OB or whoever is taking care of the woman’s pregnancy says this child might not make it; how would they be baptized? While still in the womb I mean?

it is talking about an already born infant.

A child still in the womb cannot be baptized, water must flow over the person.

If the child is delivered stillborn, it may be baptized conditionally if there is question as to when/if the moment of death has occurred.

 

[Robyn_p]

So, if a baby dies without being baptized, they end up in Hell? Im sorry, but I do not believe this.

It actually makes more sense for the church to wait to baptize people, that way, the person understands what is happening and can answer the priests questions regarding if they commit their lives to Christ and reject Satan.

Over 12 years ago, when I went thru my Pentecostal phase, I was baptized in their church, yet I was in my early 20s at the time, I stood in waist deep water in a special tub behind the altar in the church, when the preacher asked me if I reject Satan and accept Jesus as my savior, I said Yes and I was dunked underwater, upon coming up, he told me I had been cleansed of all my sins prior to this baptism, even though I was also baptized as a baby in the catholic church. I worried if this was legit as a result of this and really still do to some degree.

I also think about mass murders that were baptized as infants, look at how they grew up…they obviously did not reject Satan, so their baptism was a waste of time, Again, imo, it makes more sense to me to wait for a baptism, an infant cannot understand what is even occurring, yet it is said to be very important to their lives…?

No one said they do end up in hell. The Church does not teach that. Here is the Church’s teaching on why infants should receive baptism.

CCC:

Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and to be brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called. The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming children of God were they not to confer baptism shortly after birth. Christian parents will recognize that this practice also accords with their role as nurturers of the life God has entrusted to them…**As regards those children who have died without baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed the great mercy of God who desires all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness towards children which caused him to say, “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allows us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children from coming to Christ through holy Baptism. ** (CCC 1250, 1261)

The Church desires baptism for children because that is the ordinary and sure means of our salvation set up by Christ himself, and because as parents it would be wrong to deny our children the awesome gift of becoming a child of God and partakers of the divine nature through sanctifying grace as we believe happens in the sacrament.

We don’t know if God has another way to get the grace of baptism to people who don’t receive it, most likely He does, but it is not for us to test Him and ignore and disregard the way He did give us. To quote the Catechism again, “*God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but He himself is not bound to His sacraments. *” (CCC 1257)

But since Baptism is something He set up, as a means of entering into His covenant family (like circumcision was in the Old Covenant, which was required for infants by the way) parents have a grave obligation to give their child this gift.

Just like they have a grave obligation to feed their children, and not wait until the child is old enough to know what is happening when he eats his vegetables.

But nevertheless, the Church entrusts children who do die without baptism to God’s rich mercy, she does not condemn them.

 

[Church_Militant]

Take a look at this article and then you tell me. The Case For Infant Baptism

 

[chero23]

So, if a baby dies without being baptized, they end up in Hell? Im sorry, but I do not believe this.

It actually makes more sense for the church to wait to baptize people, that way, the person understands what is happening and can answer the priests questions regarding if they commit their lives to Christ and reject Satan.

Over 12 years ago, when I went thru my Pentecostal phase, I was baptized in their church, yet I was in my early 20s at the time, I stood in waist deep water in a special tub behind the altar in the church, when the preacher asked me if I reject Satan and accept Jesus as my savior, I said Yes and I was dunked underwater, upon coming up, he told me I had been cleansed of all my sins prior to this baptism, even though I was also baptized as a baby in the catholic church. I worried if this was legit as a result of this and really still do to some degree.

I also think about mass murders that were baptized as infants, look at how they grew up…they obviously did not reject Satan, so their baptism was a waste of time, Again, imo, it makes more sense to me to wait for a baptism, an infant cannot understand what is even occurring, yet it is said to be very important to their lives…?

What makes you believe that baby will make it to the age of reason. Nobody I do mean nobody knows when will die. The early church fathers, the Bible, as long as history tells you that the early church baptized infants. You don’t argue for the sake of arguing, if the apostles taught, along with the early christians that infants had to be baptized, then you do it. Something’s are not up for debating, some of these were and have been done and we must follow that tradition established by Jesus, the early Church, and the Bible.

 

[Bob4BVM]

So, if a baby dies without being baptized, they end up in Hell? Im sorry, but I do not believe this.

It actually makes more sense for the church to wait to baptize people, that way, the person understands what is happening and can answer the priests questions regarding if they commit their lives to Christ and reject Satan.

Over 12 years ago, when I went thru my Pentecostal phase, I was baptized in their church, yet I was in my early 20s at the time, I stood in waist deep water in a special tub behind the altar in the church, when the preacher asked me if I reject Satan and accept Jesus as my savior, I said Yes and I was dunked underwater, upon coming up, he told me I had been cleansed of all my sins prior to this baptism, even though I was also baptized as a baby in the catholic church. I worried if this was legit as a result of this and really still do to some degree.

I also think about mass murders that were baptized as infants, look at how they grew up…they obviously did not reject Satan, so their baptism was a waste of time, Again, imo, it makes more sense to me to wait for a baptism, an infant cannot understand what is even occurring, yet it is said to be very important to their lives…?

mikekle,

Your bio/religion states “raised Catholic”.
What does that mean exactly ?
I ask because your perception of Baptism appears much more protestant/fundamentalist than Catholic. Having family members who have left the Church for fundamentalism and are now raising young un-baptized kids, i am see their reasoning reflected in your questions.

At the heart of this discussion is the fact that you, like they , seem to think that Baptism is something that WE somehow do as a human act, and therefore it has no real use or meaning.
In fact Baptism IS Sacrament, it is the action and working of the Holy Spirit, at the REQUEST of the parents of the infant. God wants us all to come to Him, but He does NOT force himself on us, or into our lives. When we can let go of our pride and JUST ASK, He will answer.
He stands at the door and knocks. He does not kick the door down; the latch is on our side.

This is just another example of the typical protestant disbelief in Sacraments. They just cannot seem to accept the possibility of God actually entering our personal history and acting in our lives. As someone who has experienced God’s mercy in a very personal way, I can assure you that what we mortals refer to as “miracles” are just the everyday work of the Trinity. That would include the forgiveness of sin and the reception of the Holy Spirit during a valid Christian baptism.

Like the other Sacraments, baptism is not something we can easily understand, and is not predicated on our human understanding. Like the Holy Eucharist, it does not depend on our understanding to be a divine reality.