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Farshooter

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Apologies to all who might be tired of this particular question, but I have scoured these forums and have become more confused that when I started.

Can anyone tell me what I must believe to be accepted into the RCC? I am confused by the terms dogma, doctrine, and devotion. I am an Episcopalian, and am reading about the RCC, to discern whether I should cross the Tiber.

Any help is greatly appreciated.😊
 
If you are interested in being received into the Catholic Church, you should contact your local parish and ask about enrolling in their RCIA program. The team members are trained to lead discussions and answer questions about the teachings of the Church and assist adults who want to enter. Anyone is welcome to attend and you will not be pressured to join the Church if you are not ready.
 
Good advice on seeing a priest and joining RCIA. Yes, I know some of the programs are not that good but that’s what we have these fora for. . .moral support!😃

Actually, the thing is, Catholicism is such an ancient, rich, and deep faith that it is light years away from what most people (even some Catholics:() think of when they think of their ‘faith community’.

Today many people seek to do the ‘least’. Not, I hasten to add, necessarily out of laziness. . .but often because in today’s sound byte, ‘have it your way’, ‘rugged individualist’ world, they’re looking for ‘slogan Christianity’. They’re looking for a list of “thou shalts” (just like the rich young man who kept all the commandments). Mind you, the rich young man knew that just doing ‘the basics’ wasn’t enough. (often ‘slogan Christians’ find themselves wanting more in time). But because they’re used to the basics–used to thinking of themselves as being ‘the good enough Christian’. . .anything that goes out of the ‘comfort zone’ is pretty quickly rejected.

Catholicism is way out of the comfort zone. It’s not ‘slogan Christianity.’ It’s hard. . .it’s complicated, it’s old, it often seems paradoxical, and in a group of three ‘zealous’ Catholics you’re bound to find at least 4 different points of view, all of them claiming to be if not the only, the best one. . . And while none of those points may be ‘wrong’, it may be quite difficult to discern the true ‘right’. . .but of course, a thing’s being ‘difficult’ doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be tried!

I also recommend getting a Catechism of the Catholic Church. (You can Google this on-line, or find a used copy on Amazon.com etc.) Take your time and work through it. (Then pat yourself on the back because you’ve done more than about 80% of today’s Catholics right now. . .and hopefully, your example will get that 80% to read it too!) And of course your Bible will be helpful because the Catechism will often make reference to particular Scriptural passages as it explains Catholic teaching on them.

God bless you!
 
Thank you for the advice. I have purchased the Catechism and Catholicism For Dummies from Amazon. I will read both and see if that helps answer my questions. It’s seems like a daunting task to try to dive into the RCC. The waters seem very deep and confusing.

I am not looking for a “slogan” church, nor am I looking for a feel good church. I am looking for the truth, and the more I read of history, I have a hard time not believing the RCC is the true church.

What I must overcome personally is some ingrained beliefs I have carried for most of my life. It will not be easy, but I never expected it to be. :o

Thanks again.
 
Farshooter said:
Thank you for the advice. I have purchased the Catechism and Catholicism For Dummies from Amazon. I will read both and see if that helps answer my questions. It’s seems like a daunting task to try to dive into the RCC. The waters seem very deep and confusing.

I am not looking for a “slogan” church, nor am I looking for a feel good church. I am looking for the truth, and the more I read of history, I have a hard time not believing the RCC is the true church.

What I must overcome personally is some ingrained beliefs I have carried for most of my life. It will not be easy, but I never expected it to be. :o

Thanks again.
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Would you care to tell us some of those ingrained beliefs? Perhaps discussing them here would help. There are many people who post here who seem to know their faith quite well. I think most people who are heading toward the Church have “issues” that seem to hold them up. I numbered among them. I have been Home for 21 years now.
 
I’m a little embarrassed about sharing them, but I will give it a go.

I don’t feel comfortable with intercessory prayer or devotions. Although I don’t fully understand devotions, I just don’t feel like that’s something I would do. The same with intercessory prayers. I have prayed for the souls of the departed, but don’t feel I could ask them something. I don’t know if I would be considered a “bad” catholic because I didn’t do this.

My belief in purgatory and infant limbo is not strong, or even there. I believe that nothing unclean can enter His presence, but I’m not sure whether purgatory is a place or a process. Confusing, but nonetheless, it’s never ever been on my spiritual radar until now.

These are just my 2 big ones. I have some small others, but I don’t want to create a laundry list.
 
Farshooter said:
I’m a little embarrassed about sharing them, but I will give it a go.

I don’t feel comfortable with intercessory prayer or devotions. Although I don’t fully understand devotions, I just don’t feel like that’s something I would do. The same with intercessory prayers. I have prayed for the souls of the departed, but don’t feel I could ask them something. I don’t know if I would be considered a “bad” catholic because I didn’t do this.

My belief in purgatory and infant limbo is not strong, or even there. I believe that nothing unclean can enter His presence, but I’m not sure whether purgatory is a place or a process. Confusing, but nonetheless, it’s never ever been on my spiritual radar until now.

These are just my 2 big ones. I have some small others, but I don’t want to create a laundry list.
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I’m in almost the same boat as you. I was raised Catholic, currently Evangelical, and now looking to get into the Catholic Church again. I have reservations with some things as well, but different ones.

I was once told that the most basic thing a Catholic has to believe is the Nicene Creed. I’m not sure if this is completely correct.

The two issues you quoted: As far as I know, Purgatory is a process and not a physical place. Limbo was never an official doctrine taught be the church.

If you ever want to talk to me personally about anything, don’t hesitate to send me a personal message!

Thanks
 
Farshooter said:
Apologies to all who might be tired of this particular question, but I have scoured these forums and have become more confused that when I started.

Can anyone tell me what I must believe to be accepted into the RCC?..

Any help is greatly appreciated.😊
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Non-Catholic theology often has a strong sense that there are certain theological statements that one must explicity accept, that there is a body of intellectual knowledge that one must know. But if that were the case, then little children and the mentally infirm could never be part of the Church.

It seems to me that I don’t *have * to know any particular teaching in order to be Catholic, rather what I must do is will to accept the Church’s teaching because I know that it’s taught on the authority of Christ who cannot deceive. When I become aware of a particular teaching of the Church, it becomes my responsibility to accept that teaching as true, and to work by God’s grace to understand that which I find difficult.

There’s no way I can possibly know all the truths of the faith. But I make an act of the will to accept everything that is in the deposit of divine revelation, even if it hasn’t been made explicit yet.
 
neophyte said:
… and to work by God’s grace to understand that which I find difficult.
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That may be the best descriptive of where I am. I am working, but I want to make sure that I’m not spending too much time “in the weeds” needlessly. I guess I’m trying to gauge whether my reservations about intercessory prayer and purgatory would make my passage into the RCC untenable.

Truly, the last thing I want to do is start the process without having worked through these issues.
 
Definitely Purgatory is a process. I’ve hear it described as a coat room outside of a banquet hall, where you can fix yourself up before the party:) Because imagine walking into an elegant feast and you’re in gym sweats with ratty hair:eek:

Also remember that many Catholics, sometimes even priests, do not believe everything the Church stands for. Don’t ever think that one person ever stands for the entire Church. The pope comes very close, but the real Church is all Christ’s teachings, passed down through the Church, and His followers.

I really hope you go through with it! It’s going to be very difficult, as all good things are. I’m praying for you(intercession… since we’re members of the body of Christ as much as the saints. It’s just praying for each other. Do you sort of get it?)
 
First…thank you all for your time and answers. Means alot.

I do kind of get intercessory prayer. I pray for others and I feel honored when others pray for me. That does not bother me in the least. It’s the whole asking the dead for which I can’t make the hurdle.

I believe all Christians are with Him, but I could not go into prayer asking them for help when I could just go to the Father myself. I know that might sound incredibly Protestant, but it’s what I’m struggling with. I just may not do it. I don’t know if that would make me “less than” catholic or not.
 
What got me to understand intercessions was when Mom died. Then it just seemed natural. I’d ask my Mom for lots of stuff, so why should her death stop me?

Then I began to discover the saints, and my comfort level rose. I will say this: I have two little saints, and I can’t make myself pray TO them, just for them. I suppose that will come, but it takes time.

Remember, conversion, when done properly, is a lifetime procedure. One of our RCIA facilitators was confirmed over 10 years ago, and today he was sharing HIS struggles at adoration. (We were discussing our tendency to get A.D.D. when in a quiet room. “Oh, look at the pretty colors!” …listening to the acorns falling outside, etc). So everyone has SOMETHING they are working on.

You aren’t alone 🙂
 
Dogma refers to a teaching or doctrine that is definitive and cannot be changed, its been infallibly declared…Dogmas are typically come Papal Ex cathedras or Ecumenical Councils. Dogmas are things that absolutely must be believed to be a Catholic

Doctrine is a teaching that may or may not have been infallibly declared.

Here is a list of dogmas and doctrines

holyjoe.net/dogmas.doc

So you think you wanna swim the Tiber eh?, well you will first have to first swim the English Channel
 
It will come. . .let it take its time. As you note, nonCatholic ideas and practices are ‘ingrained’ in a person (just as Catholic ones are). . .your head may be ready for understanding before your heart is and vice versa, but with prayer and with God’s help, things will become clear.

As a Catholic, I ‘know’ that the saints are alive in Christ. It would be as difficult for me to start thinking of them as ‘dead’ and incapable of sentience as I imagine it might be for those who have been brought up to consider the dead as ‘dead’ to start thinking of them as truly being alive. But of course, I was a lot younger when I ‘absorbed’ from my parents and my teachers the ideas of the saints, and I’ve had a lot of years to deepen my teachings. A really strong and devout Christian–Catholic or non-Catholic–is going to have stronger ingrained beliefs and convictions to deal with than one whose practice was more superficial. OTOH, a really strong and devout Christian is likewise going to have the ‘habit’ of taking things to God, and of having humility enough to recognize that he or she just isn’t going to be able to ‘change’ on his/her own, etc. And also unlike the ‘more shallow’ Christian, they aren’t going to have to suddenly wade through reams and reams of knowledge that they should have learned ages ago but (for whatever reason) did not, and which they are going to find hard to reconcile with the deeply ingrained secular practices that they have been ‘devoutly’ following in their stead for years. . .

God bless you!
 
Farshooter said:
First…thank you all for your time and answers. Means alot.

I do kind of get intercessory prayer. I pray for others and I feel honored when others pray for me. That does not bother me in the least. It’s the whole asking the dead for which I can’t make the hurdle.

I believe all Christians are with Him, but I could not go into prayer asking them for help when I could just go to the Father myself. I know that might sound incredibly Protestant, but it’s what I’m struggling with. I just may not do it. I don’t know if that would make me “less than” catholic or not.
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I also found this to be very difficult.

Even after I knew that our departed bretheren in heaven aren’t dead, that they’re united with us in Christ, and that there’s nothing in Sacred Scripture that says we can’t ask for their prayers just because they’re in the presence of God, I still had to overcome the emotional wreckage of years of eroneous teaching. When I first began to ask the Saints in heaven for their intercession, it often made me feel physically ill.

I’ve found that my feelings often lie to me. I had to make an act of the will to let God drag them into submission.

There’s no dogmatic requirement to pray to the Saints. But it is good and helpful and wise to do so, and it’s an infallible teaching of the Church that this is a legitimate part of the faith.
 
Farshooter said:
First…thank you all for your time and answers. Means alot.

I do kind of get intercessory prayer. I pray for others and I feel honored when others pray for me. That does not bother me in the least. It’s the whole asking the dead for which I can’t make the hurdle.

I believe all Christians are with Him, but I could not go into prayer asking them for help when I could just go to the Father myself. I know that might sound incredibly Protestant, but it’s what I’m struggling with. I just may not do it. I don’t know if that would make me “less than” catholic or not.
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When one prays to the saints for their intercession, one is not “praying to the dead” the saints are alive and with Our Lord. They can pray for you just like someone on earth can pray for you. It is very difficult for many maybe most people who convert to the Faith from protestantism. I know it was for me. Catholics can pray to the Lord directly. We say the Lord’s prayer often and that is directed to the Father. If you want to give it a try, I recommend that you start with Jesus’ mother. Or my uncle Robert who died a baptized infant. I sometimes tell people about him because he is not a canonized saint and few people even know that he existed on this earth so he might like to hear someone ask him for his intercession. 🙂
 
Farshooter said:
I don’t feel comfortable with intercessory prayer or devotions…My belief in purgatory and infant limbo is not strong, or even there.These are just my 2 big ones.
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First let me say that if these two things are on the top of your “havin’ some difficulty with this” list, you should consider yourself lucky! These are two of the most harmless hurdles - honest!
  • Lets take intercessory prayer first. Fact: it is an optional activity! Intercessory prayer should not be based on feeling compelled to ask a Saint for prayers. It should flow from the desire to do so based upon a personal need and the acceptance, by faith, that this person who is now in Heaven had a particular charism with respect helping others in the situation you find yourself and that the prayers of others who petitioned this particular Saint were answered in miraculous fashion. All that being said, it is optional and you would most definitely not be a “bad Catholic” if you refrained from intercessory prayer.
  • Purgatory is even easier IMHO. I have not yet met a Christian who believes that their soul is in a perfect state of holiness at present nor have I met one who expects to be so at the point of death. But we all agree, as you said, that “nothing unclean shall enter Heaven”. It follows as a logical necessity that something must happen between the moment of death and the moment we enter Heaven to convert us from being imperfect to being perfect. That something is called purgation - we are purged of every selfish inclination that we have so that we can enjoy completely and directly - for all eternity - God’s infinitely holy Presence. This purging that occurs is not something that we do - it is ALL GOD and it is part of what Christ accomplished on the Cross on our behalf. Simple as that. Dont get trapped into the unecessary speculation of is it a place or how long does it take etc etc.
 
I believe all Christians are with Him, but I could not go into prayer asking them for help when I could just go to the Father myself. I know that might sound incredibly Protestant, but it’s what I’m struggling with. I just may not do it. I don’t know if that would make me “less than” catholic or not.
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Going to the Father directly is fine, its always been permitted to ask another to pray for/with you

Jeremiah 42:1-2—…all the people, high and low, approached the prophet Jeremiah and said, "Grant our petition; pray for us to the LORD, your God, for all this remnant. We are now few who once were many, as you well see.

1 Samuel 12:19—And all the people said to Samuel, “Pray for your servants to the LORD your God, that we may not die; for we have added to all our sins this evil, to ask for ourselves a king.”

Genesis 20:7—“Therefore, return the man’s wife–as a spokesman he will intercede for you–that your life may be saved. If you do not return her, you can be sure that you and all who are yours will certainly die."

James 5:16—Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.

St James states it is still fine to ask other to pray for you, St Paul a few times even asks other to pray for him.

The petitioning of Saints and Angels is a Jewish practice that predates Christianity, and it can be found in Jewish writings. To this day orthodox Jews ask the righteous who have gone on to pray for them.
 
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