Battery operated candles for personal prayer at home?

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Removing wax after the vigil is part of cleaning the Church. Wax candles have meaning. To get rid of them so we can have the luxury of carpet and padded pews seems to be putting our comfort above the mystery.

I’d rather clean up wax than clean up gum, juice boxes, ground in jelly sandwiches, smashed cereal, etc that happens every Mass.
 
Spyridon said:
Well, I was mistaken in that example.

I was ignorant of that clause in the ADA.
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Most people are ignorant of disability laws, even if they are disabled because it “doesn’t affect them”
 
HopefulForAcceptance said:
shall be first…” and in today’s society, it’s saddening how much people are willing to toss the disabled to the wayside. Why would anyone say “well you have an EXCUSE not to come, so don’t expect us to make changes for you!” That
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I think there’s a miscommunication here.

I never said that examples like you gave of lighting the candles before you get near them are wrong.

I said make unreasonable demands is wrong. Demanding a Church stop using any candles at all because they bother you is unreasonable. That’s what I said.

I think it’s important to mention again also, both my wife and myself are totally and permanently disabled. I obviously have no issue with meeting disabled people where they are at.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Removing wax after the vigil is part of cleaning the Church. Wax candles have meaning. To get rid of them so we can have the luxury of carpet and padded pews seems to be putting our comfort above the mystery.

I’d rather clean up wax than clean up gum, juice boxes, ground in jelly sandwiches, smashed cereal, etc that happens every Mass.
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I didn’t mention carpet or Padded pews. Scraping it off of wood pews and wood floors (or tile floors) is cumbersome enough.

Whatever happens in the ordinary weeks the normal maintenance persons can handle. IT’s only after the vigil the church asks for extra help.

My point is that it’s up to the priest to decide, and him only. If people are going to pitch hissy fits and storm off because they don’t get a fire stick than that’s on them.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
people are going to pitch hissy fits and storm off because they don’t get a fire stick than that’s on them.
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Maybe there should be an alternate version of the exsultet to sing which says:

But now we know the praises of this pillar,
which glowing LED bulbs ignite for God’s honor,
a LED light into many LED’s divided,
yet never dimmed by sharing of its light,
for it is fed by batteries,
drawn out by a factory in China
to build a device so precious.

O truly blessed night,
when things of heaven are wed to those of earth,
and divine to the human.

Therefore, O Lord,
we pray you that this LED light,
hallowed to the honor of your name,
may persevere undimmed,
to overcome the darkness of this night."
 
Spyridon said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
people are going to pitch hissy fits and storm off because they don’t get a fire stick than that’s on them.
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Maybe there should be an alternate version of the exsultet to sing which says:
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Oh, stop it with this. It’s not that clever.

There is NO requirement for parishioners to have fire. NONE.

The vigil could be done with not one parishioner having a candle.

Also, it mentions bees. I’ll bet you that 99.9% of parishes do not by “precious” beeswax candles. Candles today are made from paraffin which is a byproduct of oil refining and not far off of the plastic that makes most LED’s.
 
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Okay.

You find LED candles at the Easter Vigil acceptable.

I find them abominable.

We’ll have to agree to disagree.
 
The Paschal Candles are indeed precious. Parishes around here are asked to send the unused portion of their Paschal Candles to places where these are melted down to make Paschal Candles for poor parishes. Other parishes recycle them in different ways.
 
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TheLittleLady said:
The Paschal Candles are indeed precious. Parishes around here are asked to send the unused portion of their Paschal Candles to places where these are melted down to make Paschal Candles for poor parishes. Other parishes recycle them in different ways.
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The Paschal candle, yes. But the parishioners do NOT have beeswax candles. The argument that LEDs by those in the pews are some kind of affront to the legitimacy of the whole vigil is silly because we’ve already abrogated from the initial script of beeswax.

My point, if you’re going to be a purist about the details of liturgy, be a purist.
 
Spyridon said:
I think there’s a miscommunication here.

I never said that examples like you gave of lighting the candles before you get near them are wrong.

I said make unreasonable demands is wrong. Demanding a Church stop using any candles at all because they bother you is unreasonable. That’s what I said.

I think it’s important to mention again also, both my wife and myself are totally and permanently disabled.
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  1. Actually, what you said that I was responding to was the fact that one no longer had the obligation to attend Mass if they were so severely disabled. Again, both my friend and I have issues with both the lighting AND the extinguishing of candles.
  2. Please read the link about what the US Bishops have said about being more inclusive of those with disabilities.
  3. As X stated, the ADA protects the rights of those that require an ASL interpreter, I used to attend a church that had a VERY sizable deaf population; it’s my belief that they probably travelled a bit further to know this would be available at this time.
  4. Comparing one that sound sensitive with one that has a respiratory issue is like comparing apples and oranges. And no, one would not expect the choir and organs not to be used; rather, they could choose to attend the quieter Mass without the choir that is earlier in the morning; this would also be more likely to be a Mass more likely to have fewer babies or children, if such sounds bother them. They could also choose to attend Mass in a church that has a “crying room” if that is a sound that bothers them. Further, they could also wear earplugs and/or headphones that are specially made to lower the level of sound (these are very helpful with those with sensory processing disorder, or autism). If you see people wearing these at Mass, don’t assume that it is because they are being rude - it is because they can’t handle more than a certain level of sound.
  5. I also don’t feel that the social phobia issue is a good comparison; if one is that phobic, to the point that they CAN’T attend Mass, then I think that would be more of a reason for someone to use the reasoning that they are not obligated to Mass. One with such a condition should still have the right to the Sacraments, if to the point of being home-bound; again, they do have the right to stand at the back, or stand and wait until the see more open space, or attend earlier-less populated Masses. There are options for them as well.
  6. Lastly - just because one HAS disabilities, does not mean that they speak for all with disabilities, that they are understanding of or compassionate to all with varying disabilities, or that themselves don’t, sadly, suffer from internalized ableism. The adapting of Mass for those with slightly different needs, such as LED candles, or an ASL interpreter, has nothing to do with a comparison to an idol on the altar. To assert so is quite hurtful and ignorant.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
My point, if you’re going to be a purist about the details of liturgy, be a purist.
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I would prefer to use real beeswax candles like my Ukrainian parish uses.

However, at least other wax candles still maintain the substance of fire. The substance is still there, so the symbolism remains.

If I walked into an Easter Vigil and they simply said “we won’t be handing out candles because of past issues” I would be dissapointed, but I wouldn’t be insulted.

If I was handed some cheap electric toy candle thingy instead, I’d be insulted and toss it away then walk out.
 
I have no problem with ASL interpreters.

I have a huge problem with LED “candles” on the altar.

They’re unacceptable and I would prefer no candle at all.

Either use the real thing or use nothing at all.

That’s all I’m saying.
 
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Spyridon said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
My point, if you’re going to be a purist about the details of liturgy, be a purist.
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I would prefer to use real beeswax candles like my Ukrainian parish uses.

However, at least other wax candles still maintain the substance of fire. The substance is still there, so the symbolism remains.

If I walked into an Easter Vigil and they simply said “we won’t be handing out candles because of past issues” I would be dissapointed, but I wouldn’t be insulted.

If I was handed some cheap electric toy candle thingy instead, I’d be insulted and toss it away then walk out.
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You’re still drawing a line that is contrary to what’s in the text.

“well it’s still wax” but chemically it’s completely different. It’s like the difference between using red #40 dye and beet dye. One is a carcinogen and one has vitamins.

You’re arguing on the case of the feels rather than reality.
 
It’s not about the wax, it’s about the fire.

The fire is the primary substance mentioned in the exsultet. The wax is secondary.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
They’re unacceptable

Not church teaching. Only certain candles are mandated to be fire.
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If the altar candles are real candles and the votive candles are LED, I wouldn’t be crazy about it, but I’d accept it.

What I cannot accept is LED candles on the altar.

Also, I think the sanctuary lamp should be a real fire and not an LED… But I could grudgingly accept an LED candle for that even.
 
Spyridon said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
They’re unacceptable

Not church teaching. Only certain candles are mandated to be fire.
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If the altar candles are real candles and the votive candles are LED, I wouldn’t be crazy about it, but I’d accept it.

What I cannot accept is LED candles on the altar.

Also, I think the sanctuary lamp should be a real fire and not an LED… But I could grudgingly accept an LED candle for that even.
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The Sanctuary lamp is one of the mandated flames. Most churches actually “get away with” a candle, but it’s supposed to be a lamp.

Your feelings are not church teaching whether or not you accept it is not relevant. Altar candles that are part of the liturgy must be 51% beeswax. An LED would be permissible on the alter outside of Mass.

If you want to split hairs about the paraffin candles that people hold during the vigil, they are no more or less than an LED or glow stick…they would still be illicit for “use in the liturgy”
 
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Spyridon said:
The fire is the primary substance mentioned in the exsultet
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If the fire is the key factor, would it be more satisfactory for the faithful to be asked to pull out their lighters, instead of LED lights/
 
IMO, yes it would.

Or even hold sparklers.

Or bring in a propane torch.
 
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