Battlestar Galactica, the REAL best-written show on TV

[montanaman]

Rather than threadjack the LOST thread, which makes the clearly heretical claim that LOST is the best-written show on TV, I thought I’d start this one. Battlestar Galactica’s 3rd season begins tomorrow night, and I will be upgrading my cable package specifically for this show.

Why? Because it is probably the smartest show on television. I don’t say that lightly–as a long-time fan of The Simpsons, I have to wonder if I’ve been misguided. The Simpsons is brilliant, but for this geek, BSG’s storyline can’t be beat. You’ve got a civilization not too far technologically advanced than our own–you can relate to it. You’ve got an apocalypse. You’ve got human frailty. You’ve got politics. And you’ve got a frakin’ cuss word you can use in everyday conversation.

This is far less sci-fi than it is drama. Fans of The Shield or The Sopranos could definitely get into this show. Not a fan yet? Check out the 3-minute primer before tomorrow’s season premiere: scifi.com/battlestar/storysofar/primer/index.html

LOST? Yeah, I watched it last night. Looked cool–I even downloaded the first episode to see if I can get into it. I may, but my TV time will definitely be devoted to BSG–the greatest show on TV in the history of the medium.

 

[juno24]

I tried watching the new BSG when it first came on; I could not get into it. It just paled in comparison to the Truly Real Best-Written Show on TV-- Farscape. Plus, I have a huge bias against it from the get-go-- I loved the original series, and could not grasp the idea of a butchy female Starbuck. Although, I must say I have heard good things about the new BSG, so maybe I will give it a try again. I’m not quite so disgusted with Sci-Fi Channel anymore, now that Eureka (another fine show!) is on. So maybe I can force myself to tune in to Sci-Fi for BSG once in a while.

 

[ricmat]

AMEN brother.

BSG is the only show on TV that I go out of my way to watch.

Can “machines” have souls?

Can “machines” have free will?

If it looks human, acts human, and can reproduce like a human, is it really human. Or is it a machine.

These are just some of the questions that they get into.

Every word of dialog is significant - even if it doesn’t re-enter the picture for 6 months.

Wonderful show. (But for mature audiences only).

 

[montanaman]

I tried watching the new BSG when it first came on; I could not get into it. It just paled in comparison to the Truly Real Best-Written Show on TV-- Farscape. Plus, I have a huge bias against it from the get-go-- I loved the original series, and could not grasp the idea of a butchy female Starbuck. Although, I must say I have heard good things about the new BSG, so maybe I will give it a try again. I’m not quite so disgusted with Sci-Fi Channel anymore, now that Eureka (another fine show!) is on. So maybe I can force myself to tune in to Sci-Fi for BSG once in a while.

Well sure, Farscape is great if you think puppet shows are the apotheosis of good drama.

I know, I know, you can’t prove that one’s subjective taste is objectively true. Nonetheless, a coalition of scientists and philosophers has concluded that BSG is within .003 units of being the most perfect show on t.v. Don’t take my word for it–it’s science.

 

[montanaman]

AMEN brother.

BSG is the only show on TV that I go out of my way to watch.

Can “machines” have souls?

Can “machines” have free will?

If it looks human, acts human, and can reproduce like a human, is it really human. Or is it a machine.

These are just some of the questions that they get into.

Every word of dialog is significant - even if it doesn’t re-enter the picture for 6 months.

Wonderful show. (But for mature audiences only).

As Catholics we know that a certain geometric arrangement of materials doesn’t = a soul, but it’s a fun concept to play with.

Here’s a testament to the show’s greatness: My otherwise brilliant but not fictionally-inclined wife has totally gotten into it. Last night, after watching “The Captain’s Hand” episode about abortion on iTunes, she simply said “Whoa.” It was possibly a first for TV–a pro-choice president issued an executive order prohibiting abortion due to their extreme circumstances. With fewer than 50,000 human beings left in existence, it made no sense to be slaughtering their young. AMAZING.

What I really want to know is if the “Earth” they’re traveling to is the Earth of our past, present or future. (And assuming that laws of physics still hold true in the BSG universe, even if they left their homeworlds eons ago, it’s still going to be eons before they get to Earth–even with hyperlight drives.) I tend to think they’re going to show up far in Earth’s past. They’re led by Commander ADAMa and his son, after all. Get it–ADAMa? Huh? Huh?

I’m so smart I sometimes intimidate even myself.

 

[aurora77]

I’ve tried to get into BSG, I really have. The ads look amazing; the idea of the Cylons looking human was wonderful. But, I gave up in the first season; I just couldn’t take all the angst. The last episode I watched had about 5 minutes of Cylons, and 55 minutes of Starbuck being depressed about her dead lover. I’m really disappointed, too, I loved the mini-series.

 

[brotherhrolf]

The new BSG left me in the cold. The REAL best-written show was Babylon 5. And talk about your Catholic overtones!

 

[montanaman]

Babylon 5? Farscape? THESE are better than BSG?

You are all dead to me.

 

[juno24]

The new BSG left me in the cold. The REAL best-written show was Babylon 5. And talk about your Catholic overtones!

I loved Babylon 5 except for much of season 5. When Claudia Christian left the show, I think it threw the original premise for season 5 out the window.

Well sure, Farscape is great if you think puppet shows are the apotheosis of good drama.

I know, I know, you can’t prove that one’s subjective taste is objectively true. Nonetheless, a coalition of scientists and philosophers has concluded that BSG is within .003 units of being the most perfect show on t.v. Don’t take my word for it–it’s science.

.003, huh? Where is your source? And don’t give me some pro-BSG scientist or philosopher-- I want someone who is unbiased. Preferably someone from the Uncharted Territories, or perhaps IASA.

 

[asteroid]

Babylon 5? Farscape? THESE are better than BSG?

You are all dead to me.

Babylon 5 was superb. It turned television sci-fi into something new. Without the inner complexity and intelligence (and humour) I don’t think Farscape would have been made (or Deep Space 9 with its many running story arcs).

I can’t comment about BSG. My wife has the DVDs but I haven’t faced the female Starbuck yet. In any case we’re still rewatching B5 on DVD and I haven’t got through all of Stargate yet. If BSG really does have 55 minutes of angst in each episode (or 37 minutes on DVD!) it doesn’t seem appealing.

Lost is good too. We finished season 2 last week in the UK and lots of people were going on about the disappointing ending. Perhaps they were expecting the entire island to explode and everyone to die, and so missed the point of the thing with all the new questions.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

I got into the first season. Got halfway through the second then it was like:

“As The Battlestar Turns”

Too much like a soap opera.

The handset you see Commander Adama use all the time is a TA-1/pt we used it the army to test wire lines to fine where the break is, and to listen in on the enemy’s wire lines.

 

[ricmat]

After BSG, B5 was the best Sci-Fi series ever. IMHO.

I’m not actually sure that it makes sense for anyone to get into BSG at this point if they’re not already in it. If you are fortunate enough to have the DVD’s (including the mini-series), then I’d watch, and pay VERY CLOSE attention to the dialog. Every word is significant. Season one is absolutely spellbinding. Season 2 was just a bit, but not much short of spellbinding.

The second season episode “downloaded” was so full of religious allegory, that I wrote long post on it at another forum. Not sure if I can post a forum link here, but here’s the text (need 2 posts to get the whole thing in):

---

Downloaded - what an episode!

As some have noticed, BSG is full of religious allegory. There’s so much in this episode, that it’s hard to know where to start commenting on it. These are my own personal comments and in no way reflect the opinion of Media Blvd, Judaism, the Catholic Church, other Christian denominations, or any other group or organization. And there’s just so much, I’m sure I missed a lot of it.

IMHO - Downloaded was not so much about the cylon baby as it was about Sharon and Six.

This episode demonstrates (to me at least) fundamental changes to the very “nature” of Caprica Six and Sharon, and the growth of new revelations and a new relationship of the Cylons to the Cylon God. This parallels in general the growth of Old Testament mankind, and the nature of their relationship with God, and their increasing knowledge of the truth of God.

The Mini-Series starts out with 6 on the remote station asking of the Colonial officer “Are you alive?” Downloaded ends with Caprica Six and Sharon affirming to each other “We are alive.” These 2 Cylons have gone through what religious folks would call a conversion experience. But to start at the beginning…

At the moment of cylon “death”, all the deeds of the past flash before your eyes. Six / Baltar / Love / Deception / Murder. Sharon / Tyrol / Love / Deception / Murder. Just like humans.

Then the “rebirth” of Caprica Six and Sharon - this takes place in a white tank, filled with a watery substance. The old is washed away, a new beginning is possible. This is obviously Baptism in the traditional religious sense. A new body, a new life, guilt and anxiety are washed away, with white symbolizing the purity of the new unblemished person. I noticed that the water was “gooey”, which actually reminded me of the creation of the Orcs in Lord of the Rings. I don’t remember the exact quote, but it was to the effect that evil cannot create something good - so maybe the goo was a mistake.

On Caprica, the Cylons are raising trees and planting a garden - as Six says “a rebirth, a new begining.” This looks like a hint that the Cylons as a group are not driven by simple programming, but that they are searching for purpose and meaning as “a people”.

In her apartment, when 6 shows up, Sharon has the door locked. What does she fear? Why does she fear? She fears at this point that she is somehow different than the others. Perhaps just a subconscious instinct at this point.

After the explosion, Six mentions something about not giving up this life. And just before the explosion Anders says “If they want to stop living through hell, they should get off the planet”. So Six, at least (like Gina on the Pegasus) doesn’t want rebirth again and again. There needs to be an end to it in some other fashion, or it doesn’t make sense.

The scene in the debris of the parking garage was a hugely significant scene from a religious standpoint.

When 3 tries to kill Anders, she is stopped by 6 and Sharon. Baltar in Six’s head uses this incident to raise the question of “conscience”. You don’t have a conscience, do you, he asks rhetorically. Boomer replies with deep conviction that she “has a conscience and knows the difference between right and wrong”. Voila! Knowledge of right and wrong (per traditional Christian teaching anyway) is written on our hearts/souls/conscience. It is meaningless without free will, however. But then both 6 and Boomer choose not to kill Anders, with knowledge of right and wrong - an exercise of free will.

Baltar then tells Six to speak from her “heart” what she knows to be true. Six says that jealousy, murder, vengence are sins in the eyes of God. Boomer adds that the slaughter of mankind was a mistake. They show mercy to Anders. Anders asks them “What kind of people are you?” to which they reply, “We don’t know.” A typical response for most of humanity. But in asking the question, Anders echos the new testament scriptures where the same question is asked of Jesus Who are you. Who do people say that I am? Who do YOU say that I am. In a way, Anders answers his own question, they are “people.”

 

[ricmat]

continued…

And at this point, Baltar in Six’s head makes a startling claim - “Life is short, but the next one is not.” What? What about this infinite number of downloads / resurrections business? What this says to me is that this was the point at which Six and Sharon actually “became human.” They have a conscience. They have a knowledge of right and wrong. They have free will. And they have an opportunity for a next life that is “longer”, instead of being resurrected again and again in pain, reliving your past deeds and misdeeds each time. They further realize that they want to, and perhaps have the capability of “changing things for the better.” A conversion experience. “Our people need a new beginning.” “A new way to live in God’s love, without hate, without lies.” “They (the Cylons) just need someone to show them.” Like the Jews at the time of the Incarnation.

What kind of people are you? “Heros of the Cylon.” The Jews expected their messiah to free them from Roman oppression, not change their relationship with God. Jesus came along and was welcomed as a hero. But he didn’t do what they expected. Six and Boomer did what was expected, but the experiences changed them. “Are you alive?” As their own testimony reveals at the end, they are now.

A messiah. Or perhaps 2 messiahs? Or perhaps they are the prophets who herald the coming of the actual messiah (Hera the baby?). Or perhaps Hera will be the “anti-Christ” figure.

Now, if Sharon and Caprica Six change their names - e.g. like Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Simon to Peter, Saul to Paul, then the conversion would be complete.

In addition to all the above, back to when Six and Boomer are buried. When the centurions and #5 “roll back the stone from the tomb” to find Boomer and Six truely alive - this of course, could represent the resurrection of Christ from the tomb, or more probably - Lazarus being brought back from the dead to being alive.

No clue as to whether or not the writers actually intended all this allegory, or if I’m just seeing things.

 

[NPS]

(Hey there MM–check your PM btw)

I’ve never seen “BSG” but now I’ll have to check it out. It’s my Father-in-law’s favorite show too.
( I don’t even know what channel it’s on. Oh, SciFi channel? )

I love discovering a “sneaky-good” show, and we’ve had several favorites throughout the years. Right now, my favorite to watch is “The Office” which is really quite clever. (NOT the British version which goes for raunch whenever possible and whenever in a tight spot for a joke)

To get into The Office, go to you tube and watch any number of clips. Hmmmm…maybe there are some of BSG on there?

As for LOST, it truly is a very good show, but you can only get into it if you have watched all the episodes—otherwise you won’t care enough about the characters.

 

[Hastrman]

Babylon 5 and Farscape are both infinitely better than BSG. So, for that matter, is Pigs in Space, Lost in Space, and “Pucca,” the Korean web-toon they’re now showing on Toon Disney.



First off, the scifi elements of the show are dreck. Um, nukes? NUKES?! What neanderthal wrote that? Every nine-year-old knows nukes are a waste of money in space–you just accelerate any object to a high v and it can strike with the force of a hundred nukes. #@$% animated Justice League knows that! And the ships’ guns: what, do they use chemical propellants, or rail guns, or what? It’s implied here and there that they use magnets, but then why do they shoot smoke?

Second, the religion in the show. If they really worshiped the Greek pantheon, they wouldn’t be having the same religious issues as modern America, would they? For instance, last season, there was a “Cider-house Rules,” Noble Abortionist vs. Bigoted Religious People, episode. Well, uh, guys, the Greeks had no problem with exposing unwanted infants. Instead of it being secularists vs. bible-thumpers (for that matter, what’s with the holy books?), it should involve normal, semi-religious pagans vs. the chthonic cults. How about worshippers of Lykaon-Apollo who eat Cylons? How about worshippers of Hekate, “the moon of a thousand forms,” who use Cylon blood for magic? That would be a decent plotline.

Not to mention, polytheists don’t say “My Gods.” When they swear by a god at all, they say, “My god,” meaning whatever god likes them best at that moment.

Third, the writing is dreck, dreck, and more dreck, with a bunch of thinly veiled, excessively-topical ideas “ripped from the headlines”–mimicking “Law and Order” instantly loses you all credibility. The parallels with the Iraq War and the War on Terror keep flying fast and loose, and always in the most leftwing manner possible. You catch the season pilot, where the humans fighting back against the Cylons keep being called “insurgents?” Cute.

Fourth, the filming. Their DP should be prosecuted and locked in a very dark hole for his crimes. Handhelds are barely permissable at all when they don’t add a thing to drama, and these ones are badly used. Worse, there are handheld shots in SPACE!!! Whose view is that, huh? The hydrocarbon microbes that form in deep space?

Fifth, and most important, I demand someone more attractive than that gristly, anorexic blonde bimbo, and that at least one character be more likeable than the guy who sold humanity out to the Cylons not once, but at least five times.

I don’t know why it’s so popular–or why TV Guide called a remake “the most original show on TV”–but I do know this. This preachy hogswallop written by Lifetime Network alumni isn’t even registered to vote in the race for best-written show.

 

[leaner]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned (that I’ve seen; sorry) the parallels to current political happenings – I watched the first hour last night (never watched before, but had to see what had my DH more excited than bringing back Farscape) – seemed to be the Iraq war in reverse…not trying to start a war of words here, but I just thought I’d mention it…

 

[ricmat]

Babylon 5 and Farscape are both infinitely better than BSG. So, for that matter, is Pigs in Space, Lost in Space, and “Pucca,” the Korean web-toon they’re now showing on Toon Disney.



First off, the scifi elements of the show are dreck. Um, nukes? NUKES?! What neanderthal wrote that? Every nine-year-old knows nukes are a waste of money in space–you just accelerate any object to a high v and it can strike with the force of a hundred nukes. #@$% animated Justice League knows that! And the ships’ guns: what, do they use chemical propellants, or rail guns, or what? It’s implied here and there that they use magnets, but then why do they shoot smoke?

Second, the religion in the show. If they really worshiped the Greek pantheon, they wouldn’t be having the same religious issues as modern America, would they? For instance, last season, there was a “Cider-house Rules,” Noble Abortionist vs. Bigoted Religious People, episode. Well, uh, guys, the Greeks had no problem with exposing unwanted infants. Instead of it being secularists vs. bible-thumpers (for that matter, what’s with the holy books?), it should involve normal, semi-religious pagans vs. the chthonic cults. How about worshippers of Lykaon-Apollo who eat Cylons? How about worshippers of Hekate, “the moon of a thousand forms,” who use Cylon blood for magic? That would be a decent plotline.

Not to mention, polytheists don’t say “My Gods.” When they swear by a god at all, they say, “My god,” meaning whatever god likes them best at that moment.

Third, the writing is dreck, dreck, and more dreck, with a bunch of thinly veiled, excessively-topical ideas “ripped from the headlines”–mimicking “Law and Order” instantly loses you all credibility. The parallels with the Iraq War and the War on Terror keep flying fast and loose, and always in the most leftwing manner possible. You catch the season pilot, where the humans fighting back against the Cylons keep being called “insurgents?” Cute.

Fourth, the filming. Their DP should be prosecuted and locked in a very dark hole for his crimes. Handhelds are barely permissable at all when they don’t add a thing to drama, and these ones are badly used. Worse, there are handheld shots in SPACE!!! Whose view is that, huh? The hydrocarbon microbes that form in deep space?

Fifth, and most important, I demand someone more attractive than that gristly, anorexic blonde bimbo, and that at least one character be more likeable than the guy who sold humanity out to the Cylons not once, but at least five times.

I don’t know why it’s so popular–or why TV Guide called a remake “the most original show on TV”–but I do know this. This preachy hogswallop written by Lifetime Network alumni isn’t even registered to vote in the race for best-written show.

Well, as I said above, if you haven’t seen it from the beginning, it’s difficult to get into it.

Also, the nukes worked quite well for the Cylons on Caprica. And even in space, that’s what they do – accellerate “something” to high V (in addition to the lethal radiation). That’s also what rail guns do (which supposedly are in use on the show). Rail guns use magnets. Do your homework.

The reason the religious parallels aren’t exact with regard to the ancient Greeks is that…duh… they aren’t ancient Greeks.

And finally…the parallels to the Iraq war are also parallels to every war fought from the time of the ancient Babylonians or Egyptians. You take over, put in your own “puppet” police force, torture to get information, etc.

 

[Mac6yver]

Babylon 5 and Farscape are both infinitely better than BSG. So, for that matter, is Pigs in Space, Lost in Space, and “Pucca,” the Korean web-toon they’re now showing on Toon Disney.



First off, the scifi elements of the show are dreck. Um, nukes? NUKES?! What neanderthal wrote that? Every nine-year-old knows nukes are a waste of money in space–you just accelerate any object to a high v and it can strike with the force of a hundred nukes. #@$% animated Justice League knows that! And the ships’ guns: what, do they use chemical propellants, or rail guns, or what? It’s implied here and there that they use magnets, but then why do they shoot smoke?

Second, the religion in the show. If they really worshiped the Greek pantheon, they wouldn’t be having the same religious issues as modern America, would they? For instance, last season, there was a “Cider-house Rules,” Noble Abortionist vs. Bigoted Religious People, episode. Well, uh, guys, the Greeks had no problem with exposing unwanted infants. Instead of it being secularists vs. bible-thumpers (for that matter, what’s with the holy books?), it should involve normal, semi-religious pagans vs. the chthonic cults. How about worshippers of Lykaon-Apollo who eat Cylons? How about worshippers of Hekate, “the moon of a thousand forms,” who use Cylon blood for magic? That would be a decent plotline.

Not to mention, polytheists don’t say “My Gods.” When they swear by a god at all, they say, “My god,” meaning whatever god likes them best at that moment.

Third, the writing is dreck, dreck, and more dreck, with a bunch of thinly veiled, excessively-topical ideas “ripped from the headlines”–mimicking “Law and Order” instantly loses you all credibility. The parallels with the Iraq War and the War on Terror keep flying fast and loose, and always in the most leftwing manner possible. You catch the season pilot, where the humans fighting back against the Cylons keep being called “insurgents?” Cute.

Fourth, the filming. Their DP should be prosecuted and locked in a very dark hole for his crimes. Handhelds are barely permissable at all when they don’t add a thing to drama, and these ones are badly used. Worse, there are handheld shots in SPACE!!! Whose view is that, huh? The hydrocarbon microbes that form in deep space?

Fifth, and most important, I demand someone more attractive than that gristly, anorexic blonde bimbo, and that at least one character be more likeable than the guy who sold humanity out to the Cylons not once, but at least five times.

I don’t know why it’s so popular–or why TV Guide called a remake “the most original show on TV”–but I do know this. This preachy hogswallop written by Lifetime Network alumni isn’t even registered to vote in the race for best-written show.

I disagree on so many levels I do not know where to begin. I will settle on one issue though, the parallels between BSG and the Iraq War. Science Fiction has always drawn on current events to get a message across. Star Trek was the Cold War, the Day the Earth Stood Still was the invention of the A-Bomb and its more powerful big brothers, and The Time Machine was about class warfare. This is nothing new and I think it is healthy for all of us to look in a mirror. Battlestar is not the first show or movie to invoke the Iraq War and it won’t be the last.

 

[Hastrman]

This is nothing new and I think it is healthy for all of us to look in a mirror. Battlestar is not the first show or movie to invoke the Iraq War and it won’t be the last.

I understand that, of course, although BSG is very heavy-handed with its topicality. What I really object to, though, is that the season pilot essentially conflates the Cylon invasion of New Caprica with the invasion of Iraq. They’re training a new police force, they have a government viewed as collaborationist–do I have to paint you a picture here?

Out of curiosity, what’s so all-fired good about the writing? It’s certainly not remotely as good as Stargate SG1 (which, though it has slipped very far lately, is still better than BSG), let alone Monk (my vote for best-written show, by the way).

BSG “deals with issues”, sure. But not so as to bring anything new to the table–I haven’t been surprised by anything that’s happened so far, except for stuff that involves the SF Writer’s Fiat. In other words, sometimes the stuff the writers were free to make up, like that humans and Cylon bioroids (that’s the technical term for androids made of biological components) can breed, has surprised me. No action by any character has surprised me, because none of them has real personalities (Baltar’s the closest, if you can call that a personality).

Aside from the fact that both versions of Battlestar Galactica are essentially knockoffs of Fred Saberhagen’s Berserker stories, the new one is, quite probably, the single worst thing on television. It tries ever so hard to be edgy, and gritty, and “intelligent”, but all it manages is to be sleazy, sordid, and preachy.

It also suffers seriously from its total lack of likeable characters. Every single one of them is a strange kind of boozed-up, sex-soaked paragon, as if they wrote a character for PAX TV and then added flaws off a pre-approved list. Sure, once in a while one of the characters will snap so everyone can brood about it, and there’ll be some preaching from President Teacher (Teachers are holy blameless creatures, so of course one should be president), or maybe it’ll be her turn, or Adama’s, and then everyone else gets to flap his or her preach-hole. But frankly, it feels sort of like Degrassi with androids.

Frankly, I’m nostalgic for “Muffet, Muffet! Come back, Muffet!”

PS, those space battles they were so impressed with, because they were “like nothing we’d ever seen before?” Been there, done that. I’d seen Outlaw Star, thank you very much. Ten years before the remake of BSG, every single Sunrise anime with any space content at all had better space battles than BSG.

 

[bauerice]

BSG , Lost and football (college and pro) are the only things I watch on TV (BESIDES EWTN).