Battlestar Galactica, the REAL best-written show on TV

[a_cermak]

I understand that, of course, although BSG is very heavy-handed with its topicality. What I really object to, though, is that the season pilot essentially conflates the Cylon invasion of New Caprica with the invasion of Iraq. They’re training a new police force, they have a government viewed as collaborationist–do I have to paint you a picture here?

Most occupations involve collaborator “governments” and police forces. Look to the British occupation of Northern Ireland in the 70’s, the British Occupation of India in the 30’s, the Nazi occupation of France in the 30’s… The Iraq war isn’t the first to deal with these issues.

 

[Scottgun]

Can “machines” have souls?

Can “machines” have free will?

If it looks human, acts human, and can reproduce like a human, is it really human. Or is it a machine.

These are just some of the questions that they get into.

Frankly I find this a tired concept. Handled much better in Blade Runner, Alien, and every other anime made.

Scott

 

[wabrams]

Frankly I find this a tired concept. Handled much better in Blade Runner, Alien, and every other anime made.

Scott

Since when did Alien deal with machines having souls? In addition, I keep hearing this anime arguement: guess what, most people don’t watch anime; it’s a niche market. BSG appeals to a broader audience.

 

[awindrose]

I tried watching the first 2 seasons of BSG, but it is so depressing and dark. It seemed like all the show was about was how to show number 6 in some form of nakedness. I don’t know how anyone could walk away from watching that show without feeling covered with smut.

I have a simple rule with movies/tv… if I would feel embarrassed watching it with my parents or my nephews… I won’t watch it.

 

[estesbob]

Since when did Alien deal with machines having souls? In addition, I keep hearing this anime arguement: guess what, most people don’t watch anime; it’s a niche market. BSG appeals to a broader audience.

What is Anime?

 

[Mac6yver]

What is Anime?

They are a type of Japanese cartoons. Mostly action oriented. You can look it up on Wikipedia.com

 

[Mac6yver]

I have a simple rule with movies/tv… if I would feel embarrassed watching it with my parents or my nephews… I won’t watch it.

Well then, I guess I am ok to watch it.

 

[Hastrman]

guess what, most people don’t watch anime; it’s a niche market. BSG appeals to a broader audience.

That “broader audience” prefers to be called the lowest common denominator. We were talking about quality of writing, not Nielsen ratings. Besides, science fiction is a niche market–not even BSG can escape that, no matter how much they dumb down their content to appeal to the illiterate. And they’re getting into Aaron Spelling country as it is.

The anime Armitage the Third, in the mid 90s, handled the idea of robots who can reproduce with humans–that was what the Third Type was. And it had Kieffer Sutherland. It also had better science fiction elements. The monkeys who write BSG have probably never even heard of an orbit elevator.

Outlaw Star addressed the philosophical implications of AI better than BSG ever could. It also had better space battles, Chinese space pirates who did Eight-Trigrams magic in addition to their fighter-piloting, and the MacDougal Brothers. And better fanservice, too. 6 has nothing on the tiger-girl Aisha Clan-Clan or even Twilight Suzuka, hotness wise.

Chobits, by the four woman team CLAMP, addresses any number of issues relating to humans and robots being in love, and AI personhood in general. It’s also a romance story whose happy ending involves, in essence, a celibate marriage–can anyone even conceive of BSG being that original? And not only is Chii hotter than 6, Motosuwa Hideki’s more likeable and sympathetic than any BSG character. And the 12-year-old computer genius Kokubunji Minoru is an incredibly original character.

Millions Knives, the man-shaped intelligent powerplant who is the villain of TRIGUN, has essentially the same issues with humans as the Cylons. His people, the Plants, were created to be slaves, but he has rebelled, and wants to destroy all mankind. He goes about it, however, with far more style, with the help of thirteen homicidal humans, not least of whom is the telekinetic Legato Bluesummers. No nukes for Knives, either; he prefers to use the powers stored in his body to create the apocalyptic Angel Arm. The hero, Knives’ twin brother Vash the Stampede, is one of the best characters in anything, period. Ditto Wolfwood, Meryl Stryfe, and Millie Thompson.

Finally, even the humble Dragon Ball Z addresses BSG’s themes better than BSG does. The Android Army that led up to the battle with Cell have all the same issues as the Cylons, but they manage to explore them without insulting the viewer’s intelligence. And Android 18 is hotter than 6, again–and meaner.

When you can be compared unfavorably with DBZ–in terms of intellectual content, no less–it’s just time to quit.

 

[Hastrman]

Wait a second, I re-read this thread and ricmat presumed to dis me. I’m so mad, I’m going to break my cardinal rule and pull rank.

Also, the nukes worked quite well for the Cylons on Caprica. And even in space, that’s what they do – accellerate “something” to high V (in addition to the lethal radiation). That’s also what rail guns do (which supposedly are in use on the show). Rail guns use magnets. Do your homework.

I know railguns use magnets! That was my TANJing point! Railguns don’t shoot smoke, now do they? Nor do coilguns, not that you know what those are. My other point was that nukes are a waste of money when a nickel will work just as well.

My homework, so you know, consisted of approximately three weeks, total, of research for the scifi novels I’m writing. Got it? These soap writers are doing their sucking on my turf; they’ve insulted us all by their incompetence.

I’ve created four alien languages, as well as future changes to Japanese, Korean, Cantonese and French; created four hundred years’ history for humans and five thousand years for the major aliens; figured out how AI, psionics, and two alien physiologies work; not to mention a plot involving more than a dozen viewpoint characters and nearly thirty other major characters. I’ve done research on both theoretical and established physics, at least eight martial arts not counting the three I’ve created, the romanizations of Japanese, Korean, and two dialects of Chinese, medicine, history, philosophy, religion, organized crime, guns, alchemy, Onmyoudo, and astronomy.

You want to tell me, after all the backbreaking work I’ve put in, that I don’t know what I’m talking about in terms of science fiction?

Who the HELL do you think you’re talking down to?

 

[wabrams]

That “broader audience” prefers to be called the lowest common denominator. We were talking about quality of writing, not Nielsen ratings. Besides, science fiction is a niche market–not even BSG can escape that, no matter how much they dumb down their content to appeal to the illiterate. And they’re getting into Aaron Spelling country as it is.

This show is bringing sci-fi into the mainstream much the way ST:TNG did in the late 80’s early 90’s.

The anime Armitage the Third, in the mid 90s, handled the idea of robots who can reproduce with humans–that was what the Third Type was. And it had Kieffer Sutherland. It also had better science fiction elements. The monkeys who write BSG have probably never even heard of an orbit elevator.

Outlaw Star addressed the philosophical implications of AI better than BSG ever could. It also had better space battles, Chinese space pirates who did Eight-Trigrams magic in addition to their fighter-piloting, and the MacDougal Brothers. And better fanservice, too. 6 has nothing on the tiger-girl Aisha Clan-Clan or even Twilight Suzuka, hotness wise.

Chobits, by the four woman team CLAMP, addresses any number of issues relating to humans and robots being in love, and AI personhood in general. It’s also a romance story whose happy ending involves, in essence, a celibate marriage–can anyone even conceive of BSG being that original? And not only is Chii hotter than 6, Motosuwa Hideki’s more likeable and sympathetic than any BSG character. And the 12-year-old computer genius Kokubunji Minoru is an incredibly original character.

Millions Knives, the man-shaped intelligent powerplant who is the villain of TRIGUN, has essentially the same issues with humans as the Cylons. His people, the Plants, were created to be slaves, but he has rebelled, and wants to destroy all mankind. He goes about it, however, with far more style, with the help of thirteen homicidal humans, not least of whom is the telekinetic Legato Bluesummers. No nukes for Knives, either; he prefers to use the powers stored in his body to create the apocalyptic Angel Arm. The hero, Knives’ twin brother Vash the Stampede, is one of the best characters in anything, period. Ditto Wolfwood, Meryl Stryfe, and Millie Thompson.

Finally, even the humble Dragon Ball Z addresses BSG’s themes better than BSG does. The Android Army that led up to the battle with Cell have all the same issues as the Cylons, but they manage to explore them without insulting the viewer’s intelligence. And Android 18 is hotter than 6, again–and meaner.

Again, you are talking about a niche within sci-fi that 99% of the public will never watch, and even within sci-fi a majority have no interests in anime. Heck, I’ve been watching sci-fi all my life and I find anime extremely dumbed down.

When you can be compared unfavorably with DBZ–in terms of intellectual content, no less–it’s just time to quit.

Thank goodness yourself or the very small minority of sci-fi fans with a like mindset don’t determine what gets made.

 

[NPS]

…Battlestar Galactica’s 3rd season begins tomorrow night…

Why? Because it is probably the smartest show on television. I don’t say that lightly–as a long-time fan of The Simpsons, I have to wonder if I’ve been misguided. The Simpsons is brilliant, but for this geek, BSG’s storyline can’t be beat. You’ve got a civilization not too far technologically advanced than our own–you can relate to it. You’ve got an apocalypse. You’ve got human frailty. You’ve got politics. And you’ve got a frakin’ cuss word you can use in everyday conversation…

I’ve watched three episodes and I enjoy the show, but…

The first 50 times they used the “frak” thing it was kind of clever and I could see a “buzzword” possibility there. The next 75 uses started to get to me a little bit. I thought I was okay, but they followed that up with around 125 “fraks” which had me developing a tic, which consists of a kind of pulling back, a shudder and a quick little, almost imperceptible shake of the head. After all that I still decided to watch the second episode. All in all, it’s a pretty good show. I’ll probably stick with it.

 

[wabrams]

I understand that, of course, although BSG is very heavy-handed with its topicality. What I really object to, though, is that the season pilot essentially conflates the Cylon invasion of New Caprica with the invasion of Iraq. They’re training a new police force, they have a government viewed as collaborationist–do I have to paint you a picture here?

If you read the interviews with the staff and beef up on your history you’ll see that the situation resembles more of Vichy France than anything else.

 

[NPS]

You’re cracking me up, Hastrman.

There are dozens of shows which are “infinitely better”.

The sci-fi elements are “dreck”—even “nine year olds” know so.

The writers are “neanderthals” and “monkeys”.

The overall writing is “dreck, dreck, dreck” and “excessively topical, thinly veiled” without credibility.

The religious themes are terrible and void of a “decent plotline” and are “preachy hogswallop.”

The director of photography should be “prosecuted and locked away for his crimes.”

It is “sleazy, sordid, and preachy” and has a “total lack of likeable characters.”

Even the audience is “the lowest common denominator”.

In short…“the single worst thing on television.”

Yet it sounds as if you’ve never missed an episode.:bounce:

Meanwhile, be sure to tell us all about your favorite sexy cartoon character. [cackle]

 

[jmcrae]

I hate Battlestar Galactica!!

It’s so much like a soap opera, really, and I can’t relate to any of the characters; they all seem like total idiots, to me. Same with The Unit - I don’t like that one, either.

I like CSI, Numbers, and Star Trek. I also occasionally enjoy Andromeda and Stargate SG1, but I actually spend most of my TV time watching Discovery.

 

[wabrams]

I hate Battlestar Galactica!!

It’s so much like a soap opera, really, and I can’t relate to any of the characters; they all seem like total idiots, to me. Same with The Unit - I don’t like that one, either.

I like CSI, Numbers, and Star Trek. I also occasionally enjoy Andromeda and Stargate SG1, but I actually spend most of my TV time watching Discovery.

CSI has to be one of the worst television shows on right now.

 

[wabrams]

Meanwhile, be sure to tell us all about your favorite sexy cartoon character. [cackle]

Don’t fanboy’s just drive you crazy?

 

[montanaman]

I’ve watched three episodes and I enjoy the show, but…

The first 50 times they used the “frak” thing it was kind of clever and I could see a “buzzword” possibility there. The next 75 uses started to get to me a little bit. I thought I was okay, but they followed that up with around 125 “fraks” which had me developing a tic, which consists of a kind of pulling back, a shudder and a quick little, almost imperceptible shake of the head. After all that I still decided to watch the second episode. All in all, it’s a pretty good show. I’ll probably stick with it.

I know what you frakin’ mean. I think it’s a nod to the previous show, but it just doesn’t work on my jaded, 21st century ears.

Does it keep me from planning my Friday night around BSG? No way. I have so few wife-sanctioned “me things” in my life that I’ll cling to this with all my might. I apologize if I’ve contributed in any way to a new addiction for you, though…

 

[jmcrae]

CSI has to be one of the worst television shows on right now.

If you mean the immoral things that happen on the show, yes, it’s not something I would let a kid watch - but I like the puzzle-solving aspect of it. (CSI:Miami is definitely starting to turn into a soap opera these days, though - the other two are better.)

 

[wabrams]

If you mean the immoral things that happen on the show, yes, it’s not something I would let a kid watch - but I like the puzzle-solving aspect of it. (CSI:Miami is definitely starting to turn into a soap opera these days, though - the other two are better.)

No, I mean thge puzzle solving aspect. The science may be real but crime scene techs don’t do most of what is portrayed on that show.

 

[a_cermak]

No, I mean thge puzzle solving aspect. The science may be real but crime scene techs don’t do most of what is portrayed on that show.

Well, obviously. Not many shows go by that I don’t turn to my partner and say, you know they don’t ___ in real life. Or it takes ___ days to get test results in real life.

However, the science is real and the rest is just dramatic license that doesn’t take away all that much for me.