Battling a Modernist and heretical Priest

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It sounds all well and good to challenge a theology professor. But the process is not so simple. We also have to think of the student. The student wants to finish her education and go on with her life.

Let’s for a moment assume that the college is the property of the Benedictine monks. The Benedictine monks are an exempt religious order. After the Abbot the only peson who has jurisdiction over them is the Holy Father. In the meantime this student has to finish her education.

The Vatican is not the fastest moving organization in the world. There is normal time and there is Vatican time. I’m trying to find a way for the student to get her education. One must always choose the best possible good within one’s possibilities. Taking on the Benedictine Order may not be the best possible good, because it’s not within the possibilities of the student. The next possible good that the student can choose is to move on with her education.

An Abbot can slam the door shut and that’s the end of the discussion. You can take it to the Vatican, but that does not mean that it will ever get addressed. In the meantime, the student is paying for an education and not getting her degree.

The Vatican is very shy about taking on exempt religious orders, especially the Benedictines, Franciscans, Dominicans, Jesuits, Carmelites, Augustinians, Cistercians, and Capuchins. These orders do a great deal for the Church.

The Vatican is more attentive to Pontifical universities, because those are run by the Church for the Church, but less invested in private Catholic colleges and universities.

I think it’s admirable that someone wants to see orthodoxy at a Catholic college. However, we on this forum do not know the full extent of the course. We can only respond based on the OP’s report. Based on the report, it looks like it all depends on how the Benedictines have their college set up and how much involvement they have with their school. Some abbeys have a school, but they own it not run it.

I would go to the meeting and if there is nothing they can do, I would go on with my education. That’s the next good choice one can make in this situation.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
joseph_virgen said:
heres what i do not understand. you are being taught TRUTH, correct? what is more important, a grade or the state of your soul? when the Holy Spirit let you know that something was amis, why did you not listen and give voice to that concern? why the wait?

perhaps you are not ready to confront the enemy----------alone.

work to that end, and the next time he says something that is contrary to the Faith, you will not let his words go unchallenged.
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I have no idea what the heck you’re talking about.

Have you been reading any of the posts? I’m NOT being taught truth. “Why the wait?” When did I say I waited? I brought up my concerns to the priest the first week of the semester.

As for confronting the “enemy” by myself, I never had such a plan. My initial inquiry was where I could find help from organizations that deal with this.
 
JReducation has given excellent advice.

Apocalypse 12, do what you can. Pray and then get on with your education. If you follow the advice that JR has given you, then your conscience ‘should’ be clear. Be sure to discern between pride (‘defeating’ this priest) and righteousness (doing God’s will).
 
JReducation said:
It sounds all well and good to challenge a theology professor. But the process is not so simple. We also have to think of the student. The student wants to finish her education and go on with her life.

Let’s for a moment assume that the college is the property of the Benedictine monks. The Benedictine monks are an exempt religious order. After the Abbot the only peson who has jurisdiction over them is the Holy Father. In the meantime this student has to finish her education.

The Vatican is not the fastest moving organization in the world. There is normal time and there is Vatican time. I’m trying to find a way for the student to get her education. One must always choose the best possible good within one’s possibilities. Taking on the Benedictine Order may not be the best possible good, because it’s not within the possibilities of the student. The next possible good that the student can choose is to move on with her education.

An Abbot can slam the door shut and that’s the end of the discussion. You can take it to the Vatican, but that does not mean that it will ever get addressed. In the meantime, the student is paying for an education and not getting her degree.

The Vatican is very shy about taking on exempt religious orders, especially the Benedictines, Franciscans, Dominicans, Jesuits, Carmelites, Augustinians, Cistercians, and Capuchins. These orders do a great deal for the Church.

The Vatican is more attentive to Pontifical universities, because those are run by the Church for the Church, but less invested in private Catholic colleges and universities.

I think it’s admirable that someone wants to see orthodoxy at a Catholic college. However, we on this forum do not know the full extent of the course. We can only respond based on the OP’s report. Based on the report, it looks like it all depends on how the Benedictines have their college set up and how much involvement they have with their school. Some abbeys have a school, but they own it not run it.

I would go to the meeting and if there is nothing they can do, I would go on with my education. That’s the next good choice one can make in this situation.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
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Hey JR,

Those are good points. You really don’t know my situation other than what I have been posting. I’ve been trying to give as much information as possible, but it has been a long semester, and there are many events to recount.

Firstly, I’m not a she. I know a lot of people have thought I’m a woman. I don’t know whether being a male in this situation is considered a bad thing, haha.

As I’ve said before, I’m not surprised that it is a slow-moving process. But I think you have me all wrong.

I’m not making this an international case. I’m not taking on the Benedictine order. And I’m not taking this fight to the Vatican. My mission is simple, and it is a local one. I’m going to stop him from teaching heterodoxy in that class.

From what you’ve told me, informing the diocese is futile, because the school IS owned by the Benedictines. And it is a private university not a pontifical university.

So, based on what you and other people have posted, I’ve taken a different route.

Today, at the meeting, the administrator of academic advising and I settled on a short term solution. I am going to withdraw from the on-campus Catholic Tradition class, and she has enrolled me in the online Catholic Traditon class which starts this week and is an 8 week course. This is good because I’ve stopped coming to the on-campus Catholic Tradition classes because every single class, he teaches something contrary to Church teaching, and I cannot stand one more minute of it.

By the way, the priest abused his powers and gave me a D for the midterm grade because I haven’t been showing up to class. Even though I aced his test, turn in all my assignments and got full credit for them, and he KNOWS that I know the material.

But just because I’ve withdrawn from the class, it doesn’t mean I’m not going to do anything about it. The administrator is going to set up a meeting with the Dean of the Religion department so I can explain to him the situation. She was only able to deal with the academic part, not the way the class is run.

When he and I meet, he may listen to my concerns, and he might not do anything about them. That’s fine. It still doesn’t end there. I’ve got several more plan Bs.

I think my work here on this thread is finished. I have developed a plan thanks to everyone’s comments, advice, and insight.

I think that I have a really good plan in dealing with this problem, but I’m not blowing the whole thing up by making it look like I’m saying, “That’s it!!! I’m taking this fight to the Pope!!!”

There are other ways to deal with a problem like this. After all, many Catholic universities and schools have the same problem with priests coming in and teaching doctrine contrary to Church teaching.

Once again, thank you everybody for your help and prayers. If you do have any other suggestions, please let me know because they would be most helpful. As for now, I believe I’ve gotten enough information to go ahead with things.
 
Apocalypse_12 said:
Hey JR,

Those are good points. You really don’t know my situation other than what I have been posting. I’ve been trying to give as much information as possible, but it has been a long semester, and there are many events to recount.

Firstly, I’m not a she. I know a lot of people have thought I’m a woman. I don’t know whether being a male in this situation is considered a bad thing, haha.

…

Once again, thank you everybody for your help and prayers. If you do have any other suggestions, please let me know because they would be most helpful. As for now, I believe I’ve gotten enough information to go ahead with things.
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I apologise for assuming you are a woman!!!

It is just that women are more pro-active than men in many instances. We are more aggressive, we won’t stand for things. Men let things go…!

I really do admire you very much and believe that this tale will have a good outcome for many reasons including the fact that you are level headed and have great faith.

I believe you will sow many seeds in your lifetime.

Blessings
Cinette
🙂 :love:
 
a_cermak said:
If it’s a Jesuit school, I don’t believe the Bishop has any authority. I’m pretty sure the Jesuits are autonomous. You might take it up with his Jesuit superior.
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In a normal world that would make sense. Not with the Jesuits.

Go to a Jesuit run university’s web site. They have on campus Gay, Lesbian and trans gender student organizations. One shows a picture of two gay boys kissing!

All that the OP has said, does not surprise me. Its just one thing after the other. The Jesuits have become a disgrace.
 
JReducation said:
I would go to the meeting and if there is nothing they can do, I would go on with my education. That’s the next good choice one can make in this situation.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
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This me approach doesn’t help the next set of students.
 
buffalo said:
This me approach doesn’t help the next set of students.
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My thoughts too. It is important that the outcome of this serves to protect the next set of students.

I attend two Parishes - one during the week in my suburb and another on Sundays about 5 kms away (Monday nights SVP Soup Kitchen). the latter is run by Jesuits and both the current Parish Priest and his assistant Priest have not been ordained for long - they are Jesuits. Orthodox and terrific.

🙂
 
Apocalypse, why was I not made aware of these recent events (such as our priest going to the meeting with you). I am very disappointed, very. Anyway, when’s the meeting scheduled? Has it already happened?

If the meeting hasn’t taken place yet, remember that you have to go about this respectfully and with clear intentions. You’re not out to get this guy, you’re out to purge the school and the Church of his heretical teachings.

Note: Apocalypse and I are brothers.
 
If enough people would stand up as this young man has done, we’d soon have our Church back.
 
Apocalypse_12 said:
In the spirit of encyclicals Lamentabili Sane and Pascendi Dominici Gregis and the Anti-Modernist Oath authored by Pope St. Pius X, I ask this question.

First, to point out, that according to PASCENDI, anyone who says the doctrine or dogma evolves and changes is a modernist and is guilty of heresy.

That being said, let me give a background to my situation.

I attend a private Catholic university. One of its core requirements for graduation is that you take 6 credits of Religion classes.

One of those Religion classes, I’m taking this semester. It is a Catholic Traditions class, and it is taught by a Jesuit priest.

Much of his teaching is very opinionated and has strayed very far from the Course Description. I would say that most of the class is the students read the material, and the Priest gives us his opinion on the material rather than what Church teaching states on the issues in the material.

The fact is, he is propagating heretical statements in class, and he has no authority to do that, both as a priest and as a university professor.

For example, he has stated that “Personally, I do not believe in Satan.” This opinion kept to himself is one thing, but promoting it in class even though it’s against Church teaching is another.

Also, he has said that “serious modifications were made to the Council of Trent by the Second Vatican Council.”

And this is not true. To modify means to partially change. And since, according to St. Pius X, dogma does not evolve or change and infallible teachings are immutable, the priest is guilty of heresy because he is saying that Vatican 2 “changed things.”

I can go on and on about all the heretical statements he’s made, but the point is that he is making them.

Since he is guilty of heresy, and publicly holds these beliefs, he is automatically excommunicated.

I’m tired of the rampant liberalism and modernism at my school, because it calls itself a Catholic university, and feel that it is my duty as a Catholic to report these incidents not only to the school but to Church authorities.

I want to end this charade, but I do not know how. What would be my first step to battle the blatant heterodoxy from this priest?

ps-emailing him telling him to stop doesn’t work. I’ve done that already and he only replies “Thank you for your comments” each time.
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I am so sorry that you ended up in a Jesuit University, in most cases they are so liberal and non orthodox that they are in no way Roman Catholic. I really don’t know how to advise you. I suppose that you will get a bad grade if you bump heads with this mental midget…on the other hand you can be successful in life without great grades. All you need to do is rely on your own good sense unlike your professor who is is in a nice tidy little place, He will never have to worry about ever breaking a sweat, His sweet little behind will always have a place to stay with good food and a comfortable place to stay…good pay…(considering that he does no work whatsoever), Travel and all of the other perks…When you make your way you will know it was done by good honest work. You were not a slacker. Do what you think is best. It will work out because you are willing to fight the good fight.
 
Apocalypse_12 said:
I do not agree with you.

I have shown that the priest is propagating heresy. And I want to know what actions I can take to stop him.

So, since you disagree with me, no offense, you can’t offer me much help here. And since you disagree with me, you can’t really offer me advice on what next steps to take. I would say your job is done here.

If you want the last word, you can have it. If you think you’re right and I’m wrong because you’ve lived longer than I have, and if that makes you feel better, than go on and think that. But I will tell you, and it’s not my opinion, you are wrong when you say, “teachings and interpretations of the teachings are diverse. You have your own and your professor has his. Neither is wrong.” In fact, I will tell you, that line of thinking is condemned in PASCENDI.

My interpretation of the teachings are not my own. They are the Church’s interpretation of Her OWN teachings, and those teachings are infallible. Like it says in I Peter, it is not up to private interpretation.
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Hi Apocalypse,:tiphat:

I agree with you.

So you can add 64 years to the" agree" side ( we both know age means nothing! Stupid people, like me get old also! 😦 In the Catholic Colleges here the same thpy thing happens. You have to go to the Bishop, or contact the Knights of Columbus:knight1: and explain what is happening. They are notorious for defending the Priesthood against attacks.:knight2: They place that “duty” right below OUR FAITH! which they will defend against anyone. They can and should help and may even force something to be done! How do I know? I - R - Bs - 1!😃
 
:blushing:
Cinette said:
I apologise for assuming you are a woman!!!

It is just that women are more pro-active than men in many instances. We are more aggressive, we won’t stand for things. Men let things go…!

I really do admire you very much and believe that this tale will have a good outcome for many reasons including the fact that you are level headed and have great faith.

I believe you will sow many seeds in your lifetime.

Blessings
Cinette
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Hi Cinette,:tiphat:

MALE BASHING? :crying: I should report you! We have the TOS you know!. :tsktsk:
Woman, I thought you knew I was a Man? What with my trying to look down your… errr,… forget that! :blushing: Anyway, don’t make me hunt you down! It won’t be pretty :slapfight:

As I am sure you realize, I do agree with you! Don’t let the other Guys know! It’s a “guy thing” you wouldn’t understand!

BTW, I just found out JustAsking4 is a female! :eek: I won’t say anything else!

Love YOU! :flowers: God Bless
 
RobGentner said:
:blushing:

Hi Cinette,:

MALE BASHING? :crying: I should report you! We have the TOS you know!.
Woman, I thought you knew I was a Man? What with my trying to look down your… errr,… forget that! :blushing: Anyway, don’t make me hunt you down! It won’t be pretty :

As I am sure you realize, I do agree with you! Don’t let the other Guys know! It’s a “guy thing” you wouldn’t understand!

BTW, I just found out JustAsking4 is a female! :eek: I won’t say anything else!

Love YOU! :flowers: God Bless
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You are a guy - you spell like a guy!!!

😛
 
I admire you greatly for what you have done. Few people have your courage and fortitude in defending the faith. I was worried that they may have dealt harshly with you, but luckily you met with someone who was kind with you. Best wishes in your life in the future.
 
Cinette said:
You are a guy - you spell like a guy!!!

😛
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Hi Cinette, :tiphat:

Yea, Correct, precise ,and without that wimpy FEMALE stuff. I agree! Errrr that is what you meant isn’t it?:hey_bud:

A Joke to cheer our buddy up:
On the examination paper the Professor demanded that the students sign a form stating that they had not received any outside assistance.

Unsure of whether he should sign the form, a student stated that he had prayed for the assistance of God.

The Professor carefully studied his answer and told him, “You can sign it with a clear conscience. God did not assist you.” :bigyikes:

Bye :flowers:
 
buffalo said:
This me approach doesn’t help the next set of students.
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This is not meant to be a “me approach”. It is meant to be a piece of advice on making the best moral choice that one can make in a given situation.

The poster said . . .
it is my duty as a Catholic to report these incidents not only to the school but to Church authorities.
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and I agree that these incidents should be reported to the proper authorities. I also know that this is no guarrantee that they will act. Once you have reported it, there is not much that you can do, especially because the OP is dealing with the Benedictines. This is their school. There is no legal authority in the Church than can tell them who to hire or not hire, outside of their Abbot. As stated before, the Abbot’s authority over the school is regulated by the school’s charter. A charter is a legal document that the Abbot cannot abrogate. If the charter says that all theology professors must teach only what the Church teaches, then the college has a case against the professor. Otherwise, it is setting itself up for a major lawsuit.

A similar situation happened at The Catholic University of America. A theology professor was teaching unorthodox moral theology. CUA is a Pontifical University. The Vatican told the professor that he could not teach theology at the university. The courts stepped in, because the professor had tenure. The charter said that the university could not dismiss a professor with tenure. It never mentioned the issue of orthodoxy.

Fortunately, the professor was a priest and a good man. He volunteered to resign. But not every professor is that generous with his position and not every college or university has the money to pay a major lawsuit or fines, especially one that is owned by a religious order. Those that are owned by religious orders do not have any funding from the Church. They have to go about handling these issues in a way that protects the college and the Order, even though they want to be faithful.

The poster also said
I’m going to stop him from teaching heterodoxy in that class.
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That statement gives a bad impression. It makes it sound as if the poster is on a campaign against this professor. Looking at this from the point of view of the college, they can interpret it this way. Students in private schools have to be careful not to come across as if they are out to get a teacher. Private schools reserve the right of admission. This means that the school can deny the student the opportunity to register in the future, if they feel that the student targets their professors and maligns their reputation or jeopardizes the reputation of the school.

While it is true that the Benedictine Order has an obligation to teach truth in their classrooms, it is also true that they have a moral right to protect their staff and their school from slander.

It is important that the student approach the school authorities with his concern, but not challenge their judgment. That can have a paradoxical effect that is not good for the student.

The object of the spiritual life is to choose the moral good to the best of our abilities while avoiding a combative situation that only harms everyone involved.

That’s why I suggested that the concerns should be reported and then move on. The moral obligation falls at the doorstep of the school once the student has reported the problem.

By the way, for those who are maligning the Jesuits, the poster said that the Jesuits have nothing to do with this. The college is the property of the Benedictine Abbey to which it is attached, not the Society of Jesus. The professor is a Jesuit. He is simply an employee of the college. The Jesuits have no jurisdiction over the college. They have jurisdiction over the professor.

Hope this helps make my point a little more clear.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
RobGentner said:
On the examination paper the Professor demanded that the students sign a form stating that they had not received any outside assistance.

Unsure of whether he should sign the form, a student stated that he had prayed for the assistance of God.

The Professor carefully studied his answer and told him, “You can sign it with a clear conscience. God did not assist you.”
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Lol, that definitely made me laugh.
 
JReducation said:
That statement gives a bad impression. It makes it sound as if the poster is on a campaign against this professor. …
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This is exactly what I warned Apocalypse about (if you didn’t catch it earlier in the thread, we’re pretty much brothers, as close as you can get without DNA resemblance). I have absolutely no problem with what he’s doing. However, the way he went about it, so gung-ho Rambo on this guy, I feared that Apoc wouldn’t be taken seriously.

I told him to check his motives, to ensure that he can present his side of the argument appropriately and effectively. He assured me that everything was okay. And they are.

Apoc loves the Church. He loves God. His motives are pure and just, even though he erred at times in his preparation. Other than that, he’s doing the right thing, doing it the right way and with the right motives.

Surely, though, there is something that can be done about this professor. He is blatantly teaching against the Church. It is a heresy and the punishment for heresy is grave. It is unfortunate that a legal issue such as charter wordage could come in the way of protecting the Church and God, but this is a task that needs to be undertaken nonetheless. Hopefully something can be done, so that the venomous lies of this priest will no longer poison impressionable students (students who, for the most part, don’t know a thing about the Church as it is <–got that part from Apoc).

Like I said, I fully support what Apoc is doing. He’s doing the right thing. He’s ensuring that the spreading of this heresy stops as quickly as possible, and he’s doing it the right way (or, at least, I’m trying to make sure he does), even if it may, at times, seem otherwise.
 
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