Be ambitious for the high table

[BobCatholic]

Without meaning any disrespect, I would you should seek to be committed to an insane asylum as quickly as possible.

Clearly you haven’t read the lives of the saints. They make me sound hyper-optimistic

Anyway, you get the drift. That’s how you know if you’re on the right track.

Not really. I have no idea if I’m fooling myself in believing I’m in a state of grace.

The only problem I detect, might be your dismal attitude about God. I mean, how petty do you think God is, for you to say, “Noting we do is good enough for him…”.

Read St. Faustina’s diary. She said the same thing. There was a lesson: We must depend on God’s grace.

 

[Viki63]

Not really. I have no idea if I’m fooling myself in believing I’m in a state of grace.

Pray St Joan of Arc’s prayer. Asked if she knew whether she were in the grace of God, She answered: If I am not, may God put me there; if I am, may He keep me there."

.

 

[afthomercy]

To bring the conversation back to the OP, in today’s Gospel passage (Mt. 19:23-30) Jesus mentions the high tables and a sequential order of ranking:
"Then Peter said to him in reply, “We have given up everything and followed you. What will there be for us?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, I say to you that you who have followed me, in the new age, when the Son of Man is seated on his throne of glory, will yourselves sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.”

So the eligibility criterion for the high table seems to be heroic witness to the kingdom of God in this life.

By a happy coincidence, today is the memorial of the Queenship of the Blessed Virgin Mary. By virtue of this doctrine, we know that she is the one sitting at the right-hand side of the King, so the conundrum in Mt. 20:23 is half solved. Who is sitting at the left hand side is still an open question. St. Peter, probably?

 

[AmbroseSJ]

By a happy coincidence, today is the memorial of the Queenship of the Blessed Virgin Mary. By virtue of this doctrine, we know that she is the one sitting at the right-hand side of the King, so the conundrum in Mt. 20:23 is half solved. Who is sitting at the left hand side is still an open question. St. Peter, probably?

Or St. Joseph.

 

[Gorgias]

To bring the conversation back to the OP, in today’s Gospel passage (Mt. 19:23-30) Jesus mentions the high tables and a sequential order of ranking:
"Then Peter said to him in reply, “We have given up everything and followed you. What will there be for us?” Jesus said to them, "Amen, I say to you that you who have followed me, in the new age, when the Son of Man is seated on his throne of glory, will yourselves sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

sigh

No, it’s not about “high tables” or “sequential order of ranking”. Jesus is talking to his twelve apostles. These twelve reconstitute the twelve tribes of Israel. Therefore, they stand as the patriarchs of the twelve tribes, and will do so in heaven.

This says nothing about “high tables” or “ranking” for the rest of us.

So the eligibility criterion for the high table seems to be heroic witness

 

[De_Maria]

Clearly you haven’t read the lives of the saints. They make me sound hyper-optimistic

I have, actually. Name the one you studied who said that “nothing we do is good enough for God”.

In fact, if they had said that, they would never have been considered Saints. At its essence, that is one of the Seven Deadly sins known as, “Despair”.

2091 The first commandment is also concerned with sins against hope, namely, despair and presumption:
By despair, man ceases to hope for his personal salvation from God, for help in attaining it or for the forgiveness of his sins. Despair is contrary to God’s goodness, to his justice - for the Lord is faithful to his promises - and to his mercy.

Not really. I have no idea if I’m fooling myself in believing I’m in a state of grace.

Do you have any hope of salvation?

Read St. Faustina’s diary. She said the same thing. There was a lesson: We must depend on God’s grace.

I have read it cover to cover. Show me where she says that “Nothing we do is good enough for Him.” Please provide chapter and verse and a page number so that I can turn to it and see it for myself.

 

[De_Maria]

No, He really didn’t…

Yes, He did, really.

Quote:
Matthew 20:20 Then the mother[a] of the sons of Zebedee approached him with her sons and did him homage, wishing to ask him for something. 21 He said to her, “What do you wish?” She answered him, “Command that these two sons of mine sit, one at your right and the other at your left, in your kingdom.”
This is a request for her sons to have positions of authority over against the other apostles.

Correct. But its not a denial that the higher position exists.

Quote:
Luke 14:8 “When you are invited by someone to a wedding banquet, do not recline at table in the place of honor. A more distinguished guest than you may have been invited by him, 9 and the host who invited both of you may approach you and say, ‘Give your place to this man,’ and then you would proceed with embarrassment to take the lowest place. 10 Rather, when you are invited, go and take the lowest place so that when the host comes to you he may say, ‘My friend, move up to a higher position.’ Then you will enjoy the esteem of your companions at the table.
This isn’t a teaching on heaven; this is a parable, directed at those who were jockeying for position at an earthly banquet. In fact, Jesus follows it up with a teaching to the host (who wouldn’t be jockeying for position): the host himself shouldn’t take actions to put himself at advantage, but rather, should be humble and act in ways that don’t directly benefit himself.

This is a teaching about actions here on earth.

Do you remember the prayer, “thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven?” Apply it here.

This doesn’t suggest “higher” or “lower” seats in heaven. (In fact, even if it did,

It does.

it would be teaching us not to aspire to the “high tables”… )

It teaches us not to presume that we deserve any reward. The Catholic Church Teaches that it is God who judges and decides one’s merits in the eternal life.

In fact, all those verses you provided confirm the existence of higher seats, tables, thrones, crowns or rewards, whatever you want to call them. Listen to what Jesus said in one of your examples, but you left it out.

23 …but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Therefore, it is the Father who appoints the seating arrangements in heaven.

 

[De_Maria]

… To conclude, if invoking testing/suffering from God is the right stepping stone to a place at the high table, shouldn’t we be doing so proactively, rather than letting things happen at their own pace and wasting precious time?

I agree with your entire message and the spirit of the last sentence. I just want to mention, that we can’t “anticipate” the grace of the Holy Spirit. If anyone feels that they must do so “proactively”, it is because they are being prompted by God to do so. It is Divine Grace which precedes human decision.

 

[De_Maria]

If I make it there,

If I make it? Therefore, you hope in God’s mercy.

you’ll outrank me

,

How do you know? Do you know more than Christ? Even Christ said that rank was not His to give.

as I’ll be the person who washes the brooms you’re using and dining out of the bread crumbs from the holy table…

Console yourself with the idea that you’ll be in heaven, if God so wills. But if you keep putting Him down and saying that He is an ingrate for whom nothing we do is good enough, you might wind up where you don’t want to go.

Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 

[De_Maria]

sigh

No, it’s not about “high tables” or “sequential order of ranking”. Jesus is talking to his twelve apostles. These twelve reconstitute the twelve tribes of Israel. Therefore, they stand as the patriarchs of the twelve tribes, and will do so in heaven.

This says nothing about “high tables” or “ranking” for the rest of us.

The eligibility for the “twelve thrones” isn’t “heroic witness”, it’s the role of apostle. And we already know who they are.

Have you forgotten the Patriarchs?

Actually, doesn’t the Old Testament say that the queen stands at the king’s right? So, again, no, and besides which we’re not supposed to be worrying about sitting at Jesus’ left or right.

Who’s worrying? We’re striving.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

It’s like any athlete, you strive to do your best and then wait on the judge to make the call. Except this time, you are waiting on the Judge to make the ultimate Call.

 

[Gorgias]

Yes, He did, really.

As your post demonstrates, He said something that was on the topic, but wasn’t what you’re asserting.

Correct. But its not a denial that the higher position exists.

But – and this is the salient point – it’s not a “higher position” that exists such that we all should “be ambitious” for it…!

Do you remember the prayer, “thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven?” Apply it here.

That’s cute. However, it’s not only backwards (“on earth as in heaven”, not “in heaven as on earth”!), but it’s not applicable. I could say “there’s no marriage in heaven”… but would that imply that the situation is the same on earth? Of course not.

In fact, all those verses you provided confirm the existence of higher seats, tables, thrones, crowns or rewards, whatever you want to call them.

But, these are specific references for specific roles. Unless you think we’re auditioning for the role of “13th apostle”, then they don’t apply.

Therefore, it is the Father who appoints the seating arrangements in heaven.

If “on earth as it is in heaven”, then take Jesus’ advice: don’t yearn for the seat of highest honor, but rather, yearn for the lowest seat.

 

[BobCatholic]

Pray St Joan of Arc’s prayer. Asked if she knew whether she were in the grace of God, She answered: If I am not, may God put me there; if I am, may He keep me there."

.

I hope it works!

I have, actually. Name the one you studied who said that “nothing we do is good enough for God”.

I don’t recall. All I know is that we are saved by God’s grace and without God’s grace, game over. Council of Trent said we cannot do anything good enough for God without God’s grace. No good deed will get us into heaven.

Do you have any hope of salvation?

Yes, but I don’t know if I’m cooperating good enough to please God. I don’t have any positive feedback (but I get negative feedback like suffering)

If I make it? Therefore, you hope in God’s mercy.

I hope in God’s mercy. I try to avoid presumption.
,

How do you know? Do you know more than Christ? Even Christ said that rank was not His to give

.

Correct, the Father gives out the ranks.

Console yourself with the idea that you’ll be in heaven, if God so wills.

Correct.

IF he wills it.

Currently I cannot have a personal relationship with God. I can only have a corporate relationship.

But if you keep putting Him down and saying that He is an ingrate for whom nothing we do is good enough, you might wind up where you don’t want to go.

I’m not putting God down, rather God is inaccessible and plays hard to get to me.
I get it, he’s holy, transcendent and just doesn’t want to be with me, I can’t force him.
What’s worse is I don’t know anyone who can have a conversation with God. If I knew someone like that, I’d ask them to ask God to talk to me. I want to know him better, I want to love him, I’m tired of stagnating. I’m just so imperfect, I’m afraid I am rejected.

 

[afthomercy]

I agree with your entire message and the spirit of the last sentence. I just want to mention, that we can’t “anticipate” the grace of the Holy Spirit. If anyone feels that they must do so “proactively”,** it is because they are being prompted by God to do so. It is Divine Grace which precedes human decision**.

Thanks DM!

No, it’s not about “high tables” or “sequential order of ranking”. Jesus is talking to his twelve apostles. These twelve reconstitute the twelve tribes of Israel. Therefore, they stand as the patriarchs of the twelve tribes, and will do so in heaven. This says nothing about “high tables” or “ranking” for the rest of us…

Me thinks that this takes a very restrictive view of Mathew’s gospel. Exegetics tell us that Mathew wrote it primarily for a Jewish audience and therefore the pronounced Jewish tilt in it. However within the same very same passage (Mt. 19: 23-30) I can distinctly see the words: “And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life…”
Do you still think that it does not apply to the rest of us if we too give heroic witness like the apostles did?

Strange (name removed by moderator), that you should be feeling so! The purpose of this thread is to whip up some enthu for getting out of the comfort zone and asking God to sock it to us on the chin!
Here I want to share today’s quote put out by the Economist Expresso app.: “The most likely way to reach a goal is to be aiming not at that goal itself, but at some more ambitious goal beyond it.” ~ Arnold Toynbee. In the context of this discussion, if heaven is the goal, then the high table is the ambitious goal!

Of course it is said that in spiritual matters, focusing on the reward is the surest way to lose it, but we can take comfort from the fact that it is the simple Simon who had the frankness to ask the practical question, “What’s in it for me?”, that elicited from the Lord the clear reply!

 

[Gorgias]

Exegetics tell us that Mathew wrote it primarily for a Jewish audience and therefore the pronounced Jewish tilt in it.

Actually, he wrote it for a Christian audience. Matthew’s intended audience was a community of ethnic Jews who had chosen Christianity, and was written in a time in which tension between Jews and Christians was reaching a breaking point. His audience – who had been raised in a worldview that saw an “us vs them” dynamic that pitted the “haves” (Jews, who “had” God and “had” salvation) against the “have nots” (Gentiles, for whom they had only derision) – was now facing a new worldview: “love your neighbor, do good for those who hate you.” Jesus was changing the way they looked at the world: not to strive for the best, leaving others to their fate, but rather, to see others as brothers and sisters and to serve and care for them.

Matthew speaks to his audience, expecting them to know Jewish custom and tradition, but speaks in terms of Jesus’ message of egalitarianism.

However within the same very same passage (Mt. 19: 23-30) I can distinctly see the words: “And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life…”

Yes, please read that verse carefully: Jesus isn’t saying, “you, here: you’ll receive twenty times more; and you over there: you’ll receive fifty times more; and you, right here: you’ll receive a hundred times more! So, please make sure that you strive to be the ‘hundred times more’ Christian!” No, Jesus is telling everyone “you will receive a hundredfold – that is, eternal life!”

There is no “high table” in this quote, nor an attempt to suggest that people ‘earn’ salvation; just a reminder that eternal life is a reward far beyond their efforts.

Do you still think that it does not apply to the rest of us if we too give heroic witness like the apostles did?

Sure… the “hundredfold” applies to us.

The “twelve thrones”, though? No… that’s the role of the twelve apostles.

The seat at the “high table” at the wedding feast of the Lamb? No… that’s precisely what Jesus tells us not to strive to achieve: “[Jesus] told a parable to those who had been invited, noticing how they were choosing the places of honor at the table. ‘When you are invited by someone to a wedding banquet, do not recline at table in the place of honor… Rather, when you are invited, go and take the lowest place’.” (Lk 14:7-10)

 

[De_Maria]

I hope it works!

Good! You have a plan.

I don’t recall.

Because none of them had said so, if they had, and had not repented, they would have died with the mortal sin of despair on their soul.

All I know is that we are saved by God’s grace and without God’s grace, game over.

It is because of God’s grace that we can work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Council of Trent said we cannot do anything good enough for God without God’s grace.

Without God’s grace. But you’re a baptized Catholic. By definition, you are in God’s grace.

No good deed will get us into heaven.

But without good deeds, you will definitely be condemned. God doesn’t pull from the set of non-doers of good deeds. God pulls from the set of good deed doers. Those are they whom He saves:

Titus 3:5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost;

Yes, but I don’t know if I’m cooperating good enough to please God. I don’t have any positive feedback (but I get negative feedback like suffering)

Suffering is positive feedback. I don’t think you’ve really read the Saints like you claim. If you had, you would know that already. Because of all the suffering that St. John of the Cross was enduring, St. Theresa of Avila, famously quipped, “If this is how You treat Your friends, its no wonder You don’t have more.”

I hope in God’s mercy. I try to avoid presumption.
,

In that you do good. Try also to avoid presuming that you know what position you will hold in heaven.

Currently I cannot have a personal relationship with God.

For God all things are possible. Therefore, forget about your own limits.

I can only have a corporate relationship.

On the contrary, without a personal relationship, you can’t have a corporate relationship.

Anyway, it’s not logical for you to believe that God would permit you to have a corporate relationship if you don’t believe that He is pleased with you.

I’m not putting God down,

Yes, you are. You are saying that God is unjust and does not take into account the works which you have done out of faith and love. Have you never read the Parable of the Talents?

*14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
*

This is what you sound like:

**24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
**
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

**26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.**

This attitude is not worthy of a servant of God. Much less of a born again child of God.

cont’d

 

[De_Maria]

[Cont’d discussion with CatholicBob:

rather God is inaccessible

No. He’s not.

and plays hard to get to me.

He does so with all who love Him. He doesn’t do so with those who don’t, because they wouldn’t miss Him. Read the Song of Songs by St. John of the Cross.
jesus-passion.com/SPIRITUAL_CANTICLE_PART_2.htm

I get it, he’s holy, transcendent and just doesn’t want to be with me, I can’t force him.

Uh, yes, you can. God promised that He would listen to our prayers. God always keeps His promises.

Matt 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you. 8 For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you, of whom if his son shall ask bread, will he reach him a stone? 10 Or if he shall ask him a fish, will he reach him a serpent? 11 If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more will your Father who is in heaven, give good things to them that ask him?

What’s worse is I don’t know anyone who can have a conversation with God. If I knew someone like that, I’d ask them to ask God to talk to me. I want to know him better, I want to love him, I’m tired of stagnating. I’m just so imperfect, I’m afraid I am rejected.

You, are focusing on yourself. Focus on God and all else will be provided for you:

Matthew 6:31 Be not solicitous therefore, saying, What shall we eat: or what shall we drink, or wherewith shall we be clothed? 32 For after all these things do the heathens seek. For your Father knoweth that you have need of all these things. 33 Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof.

 

[De_Maria]

As your post demonstrates, He said something that was on the topic, but wasn’t what you’re asserting.

True;

But – and this is the salient point – it’s not a “higher position” that exists such that we all should “be ambitious” for it…!

You are saying something that is on the topic, but not what the OP is asserting.

The OP did not say, “be ambitious so that you will sit at the right hand of the Father”. Nor, “be ambitious so that you will be able to choose for yourself a higher reward.”

No. But he is saying, “Do not be satisfied with doing the least, but be ambitious for a greater reward from the Father.” It is really a paraphrase of St. Paul’s advice:

2 Cor 5:6 Now this I say: He who soweth sparingly, shall also reap sparingly: and he who soweth in blessings, shall also reap blessings.

That’s cute.

It’s true.

However, it’s not only backwards (“on earth as in heaven”, not “in heaven as on earth”!), but it’s not applicable

.

It is not backwards and it is perfectly applicable. Your reading of Scripture is meager.

I could say “there’s no marriage in heaven”… but would that imply that the situation is the same on earth? Of course not.

Certainly, because that would be a non-sequitur. The words, “God’s will be done on earth as it is in heaven”, does not imply that God wills everything identically in heaven as on earth. But speaks to the obedience of the denizens of the respective spheres.

Thus, the words mean, “That those on earth obey God as perfectly as those in heaven already do.”

Not, “that everything on earth be done be the exact same things which are done in heaven.”

But, these are specific references for specific roles.

Not when understood in the context they are written. The context is rewards. God will reward each man according to His works. Thus,

Matt 19:28 And Jesus said to them: Amen, I say to you, that you, who have followed me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the seat of his majesty, you also shall sit on twelve seats judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall possess life everlasting.
30 And many that are first, shall be last: and the last shall be first.

Unless you think we’re auditioning for the role of “13th apostle”, then they don’t apply.

I don’t see the title “13th apostle” listed in the rewards I mentioned. So, this would be filed under the heading, “straw man”.

If “on earth as it is in heaven”, then take Jesus’ advice: don’t yearn for the seat of highest honor, but rather,

Again, you don’t understand what Jesus is saying. Jesus does not contradict the Word of God. Yearning for the highest seat is not even mentioned. But usurping the highest seat is mildly reprimanded.

1 Cor 9:10 Or doth he say this indeed for our sakes? For these things are written for our sakes: that he that plougheth, should plough in hope; and he that thrasheth, in hope to receive fruit…24 Know you not that they that run in the race, all run indeed, but one receiveth the prize? So run that you may obtain.

yearn for the lowest seat.

No thanks. It gets mighty uncomfortable down there. I yearn to be as close to God as He wills for me to be. If you think you’re doing good by doing the minimum, read this:

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God that is given to me, as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation; and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble:
13 Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is.
14 If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

There are even lower seats than that. But I hope those are not part of this conversation.

 

[BobCatholic]

It is because of God’s grace that we can work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

But God’s grace does not overcome imperfections.

Without God’s grace. But you’re a baptized Catholic. By definition, you are in God’s grace.

But that does not mean I’m still there. I can fool myself into thinking that I’m in a state of grace, when in God’s eyes, I’m an evil guy.

But without good deeds, you will definitely be condemned. God doesn’t pull from the set of non-doers of good deeds. God pulls from the set of good deed doers. Those are they whom He saves:

How many good deeds? I’ve done some, but I don’t think it is enough.

Suffering is positive feedback.

That’s like saying a father spanking his kid is positive feedback.

Because of all the suffering that St. John of the Cross was enduring,

If you read St. John of the Cross, you would know that prior to a Dark Night of the Senses, one gets consolations and awesome experiences of connecting with God.

I never had that.

But I’m apparently suffering the rest of the Dark Night of the Senses.

So, am I actually suffering the Dark Night of the Senses or not? Using St. John of the Cross’s criteria, apparently not.

St. Theresa of Avila, famously quipped, “If this is how You treat Your friends, its no wonder You don’t have more.”

Precisely.

We apparently have the dignity of God. We are made in his likeness and image. We are so important to him that Christ died on a cross for us.

Now, once he has us, he treats us like…meh. Like he doesn’t care.

Why does he do that?

Try also to avoid presuming that you know what position you will hold in heaven.

If I manage to survive life and be in a state of grace at my death, then I’ll be in purgatory for centuries and then begrudgingly let in to heaven, after I turn off the lights.

For God all things are possible. Therefore, forget about your own limits.

I have to worry about my limits. My imperfections are big and stand in the way of having a personal relationship with God. Imperfections God refuses to heal and get rid of.

What message does that send me? That God does not want me.

On the contrary, without a personal relationship, you can’t have a corporate relationship.

How is that? The Catechism says otherwise.

CCC 837 “Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’”

One can be incorporated into the Church (have a corporate relationship) without persevering in charity (personal relationship)

Anyway, it’s not logical for you to believe that God would permit you to have a corporate relationship if you don’t believe that He is pleased with you.

Then you are saying the Catechism is illogical.

Yes, you are. You are saying that God is unjust and does not take into account the works which you have done out of faith and love. Have you never read the Parable of the Talents?

Yes.

I don’t have 10 talents. I don’t even have 5. So I must be the “one” talent.

What’s worse is that I don’t know what my talent is.

So I’m doomed.

I consider myself the fourth servant who got a talent and lost it and God got angry at him.
.

 

[BobCatholic]

No. He’s not.

So why won’t he talk to me?

He does so with all who love Him.

How can I love someone if I have no personal relationship with him? How do I have a personal relationship with someone who ignores me and is silent?

If I never say another word to my wife again, I won’t stay married for long! No matter how faithful of a husband I am!

He doesn’t do so with those who don’t, because they wouldn’t miss Him.

I can’t afford to miss him.

If I get to judgment, and Jesus tells me “go away you evildoer, I never knew you” I will scream at him “I TRIED AND YOU REFUSED TO RELATE TO ME!!!”

Going to hell is one thing, but to me, it is far more devastating that He said he did not know me.

Uh, yes, you can. God promised that He would listen to our prayers. God always keeps His promises.

Listen, yes.

Answer yes, no.

In fact, God does not promise that he will answer yes to prayers for good things.

That verse is translated “…provide the Holy Spirit” meaning that God only provides spiritual things (because he does not care about the temporal)

You, are focusing on yourself. Focus on God and all else will be provided for you:

How do I focus on someone who refuses to talk to me?

How do I focus on someone who treats me like a criminal instead as a beloved adopted son? (this assumes I’m one in the first place!)

How do I focus on someone who says no to good things I ask for? (i.e. healing my son of his mental disease, or stable employment)

A personal relationship is a two way street, when it comes to temporal things, it is very one way here.

 

[De_Maria]

…Jesus message of egalitarianism.

No such thing:

Matthew 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Yes, please read that verse carefully: Jesus isn’t saying, “you, here: you’ll receive twenty times more; and you over there: you’ll receive fifty times more; and you, right here: you’ll receive a hundred times more! So, please make sure that you strive to be the ‘hundred times more’ Christian!” No, Jesus is telling everyone “you will receive a hundredfold – that is, eternal life!”

It is you who needs to read it more carefully. Read it in line with other Scriptures, not in accordance with your whims:

Revelation 22:12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to every man according to his works.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.

Daniel 12:3 But they that are learned shall shine as the brightness of the firmament: and they that instruct many to justice, as stars for all eternity.

Read it also in accordance with Catholic Tradition. St. Thomas Aquinas:

1. The essential reward of heaven is called theaurea, that is, the golden crown. All the blessed havethis aurea. Now, it seems that some saints-by reason of the specialtype of victory they won in saving their souls: by martyrdom, byvirginity, by notable teaching of the truths of faith-have aspecial crown or aureola in addition to the aurea.Aureola means a little golden crown; sometimes it iscalled nimbus or halo. Christian art often depicts anysaint, and even our Lord, with the nimbus or halo. But the precisemeaning of aureola is not something general and to beattributed to all the blessed, but something special, bestowed inrecognition of a particular excellence, on certain saints.

There is no “high table” in this quote, nor an attempt to suggest that people ‘earn’ salvation; just a reminder that eternal life is a reward far beyond their efforts.

Earning salvation is your straw man. Higher table need not be specifically mentioned since rewards are explicitly so.

Sure… the “hundredfold” applies to us.

True.

The “twelve thrones”, though? No… that’s the role of the twelve apostles.

Those twelve thrones are. But are there only twelve thrones in heaven? Where, I wonder, is Our Lady sitting? Where is St. Joseph? Where the Patriarchs?

The seat at the “high table” at the wedding feast of the Lamb? No… that’s precisely what Jesus tells us not to strive to achieve: “[Jesus] told a parable to those who had been invited, noticing how they were choosing the places of honor at the table. ‘When you are invited by someone to a wedding banquet, do not recline at table in the place of honor… Rather, when you are invited, go and take the lowest place’.” (Lk 14:7-10)

Jesus didn’t say not to “strive”. He said not to “take without permission”. That’s totally different concept. Note that He assigned the higher seat to the one whom He preferred. The very text which you point to as support for your idea, debunks it. In that text, we see the following:

1. People sitting in various tables of various ranks.
2. Some receiving greater honor than others.

The problem is your confusion with the concept of “yearning” for the idea of “taking that which has not been awarded”.