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Rence
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Not everyone is called to be a stay at home mom. That’s a personal decision, and there’s nothing wrong with choosing it, or not choosing it.
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captainmike
Guest
yes, there absolutely can be something wrong with it, if it keeps a woman from having the children that God intends her to have, or if it keeps her from giving them enough attention. if a family will devote themselves to doing God’s will, He will allow the man to earn enough money to support them. I firmly believe that.
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Rence
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It’s okay that you believe that. But others believe differently. And if God intended a woman to have a child, or children, she would.
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andrewstx
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Exactly, in many places in texas the drought is so bad that people are forbidden to water their yards and gardens.
I live in west texas which was never meant by God to hold so many people, but the “ahl bidness” attracts them anyway.
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Neildown
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What happens when there aren’t any non-populated areas on earth?
Don’t get me wrong (I’m all for having kids) but in an era where we have over 7 billion humans on earth (and we happen to live in a country that is highly centered on disposable commercial goods - churning out more plastic **** than any other nation as I’m aware), we do need to exercise some moderation - if not for the well-being of the planet then for the well-being of humanity itself. Although there IS still plenty of space and food for people (if you divied it all up evenly), now would be a good time to start downsizing the average family a bit via moderation of the tendencies. Granted, I’m #5 out of 7 siblings, and I love having a big family, if EVERYONE has a big family, you’re going to run into problems, unless you get a lot of people to go single, celibate, or have a religious vocation so as to ease the multiplication factor.
On the other hand though, in a properly functioning Catholic culture the amount of clerics/celibates vs. non-celibate couples should theoretically be able to maintain a harmonious population balance when needed - as well as expand or contract.
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severus68
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Nothing wrong and everything right about a man helping to raise his kids together with their mother. Fathers need to give their children attention too. It is for every husband and wife to decide about their own marriage.
Women are not breeding machines/baby factories.
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captainmike
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75 years ago, women stayed home for the most part (or, if they worked, held jobs that didn’t interfere with them having children) and had many more children than they do today. and that’s how it had been for centuries. now, are we to believe that God suddenly started “calling” women to be doctors and lawyers, rather than mothers? I highly doubt that. and to the point that men should give their kids attention, while that’s true, it is clear that the female body was designed to have kids and to nurture them.
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Rence
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They’ve been calling them to be doctors, nurses, lawyers, welders, teachers, etc. It’s just that it took time for that to evolve and it’s quite a beautiful thing. In addition, it’s quite quite naive to think that prior to 75 years ago, women stayed home and had kid after kid after kid. Now, they did have many kids (especially since longevity wasn’t on their side and all the kids weren’t expected to survive until adulthood), but women were out in the fields working all day, with some of their kids in tow, if they didn’t have older kids to watch the younger ones yet.
The survival rate of children is much higher now, and we don’t have to have ten to assure that 3 or 4 live to adulthood. We don’t need more children to work in the fields either. We don’t live off the grid now, and have to send our children to school, have to provide clothes and supplies suitable for school, and have to pay for eletricity, heating and housing. 75 years ago, children weren’t taken away from their parents because their roof was falling down, the heat wasn’t on, the electricity wasn’t on, and the ones old enough to work were put to work despite still being very young.
Yes, I believe that women and children are being called to a better life, better than what was 75 years ago or more. I’m sure you can find a slave or second class citizen quite easily if you want one. But being a stay at home mom doens’t have to be a woman’s only choice, but should merely be a personal choice. I know a husband (doctor) and wife (nurse) who have 7 kids, with all kids having an education and grew up without any wants. That nurse didn’t just go to work, she participated in her kids lives and was constantly running to soccor, ballet, piano, karate etc. In fact, I have yet to see ONE stay at home mom do as much as this one working mom did for her kids. So don’t say it can’t be done because it can. And it’s not just this woman. Her siblings give her a run for her money doing the mom and the dad-thang. That’s how they were raised.
So I laugh when people claim that it wasn’t God’s Will because these successes and good things couldn’t happen without Him.
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severus68
Guest
Very well said.
I would like to add that the poor then and now (in the less developed countries) had/have many children to help in increasing the income of the family as soon as they are able to work.
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captainmike
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you ask 100 female doctors whether they use artificial contraceptives and you will get 100 affirmative answers. you can’t possibly do a demanding job like that and be open to life the way our Church teaches we must be.
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Rence
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Ok, now that’s just silly. If you ask 100 stay at home moms if they use artificial contraception, you won’t get that much better a response. In general, families are getting smaller, no matter what career a woman chooses, or whether she chooses to stay home they’re not all called to have a dozen kids. I know stay at home moms who use birth control as well as women with careers who use them. Even checkers at the checkout use birth control and have small families, so it has nothing to do with being busy just because one is a doctor. We’re all busy.
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severus68
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Yes, I have read of women giving birth in the fields, wrapping the baby up and carrying on with their work. Was that good? What was the fatality rate then and how many babies died at birth, sometimes along with their mothers. The female body is not designed to bear child after child after child. God did not make women just to have and bring up babies.
God gave women brains and talent too. St Paul said that under Christ all are equal, Christ practised and taught equality. There are female Doctors of the Church. Women can be mothers and doctors/lawyers. Some women are called to religious vocations as nuns, some are not called to be mothers.
While only a woman can give birth, both man and woman can and should nuture their children.
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captainmike
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nope. i’m making a serious point. a stay-at-home mom doesn’t have to contracept, she can have 8-10 kids if she wants. not so with a female doctor. she’s in college, med school, and residency from age 18 to her late twenties. then, she works 60 hours per week and is on call all of the time. she can’t have kids. or, at most, she might have 1 or 2 and then hand then off to a day care worker as soon as they are born. a woman who chooses that career uses contraceptives because she has to. she can’t be open to life as the Church teaches her to be.Ok, now that’s just silly. If you ask 100 stay at home moms if they use artificial contraception, you won’t get that much better a response. In general, families are getting smaller, no matter what career a woman chooses, or whether she chooses to stay home they’re not all called to have a dozen kids. I know stay at home moms who use birth control as well as women with careers who use them. Even checkers at the checkout use birth control and have small families, so it has nothing to do with being busy just because one is a doctor. We’re all busy.
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Neildown
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Sorry, but that’s why the Catholic Church teaches us to learn moderation. You can’t justify the repression of life by saying you’re too busy or that you’re allowed to live outside the law. If you don’t want kids, don’t have sex. People knew how to do that 2000 years ago - I think people can manage to do the same 2000 years later.
Not that I’m trying to sound condemning, but that’s what we’ve been taught - it’s the Roman Catholic Faith.
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Rence
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She can be as open to life as the Church teaches her to be. The only difference is YOU want her to have 8-10 kids like baby-making-factory, and she obviously isn’t called by God to do so. Those who are called to do so, are doing so. And I know three doctors in my hospital alone who are pregnant and a surgeon who just had her third. So you’re really barking up the wrong tree with me. Honestly, no offense Mike, truly, but you might be more sucessful if you try with someone who thinks women are incompetent morons who should just camp out in the nursery because they might get lost on their way to the kitchen. I got my last job because half the staff was pregnant.
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severus68
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I assume you are referring to 100 Catholic female doctors. You are making an assumption not giving a fact. The Church does not say that any woman should spend her life producing babies, taking care of them, her husband and the home only. Now what about that famous woman saint who was a practising doctor, wife and mother?
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captainmike
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how do you know this? what’s your evidence that God has called women to be doctors and lawyers for centuries?
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severus68
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Then I could well ask for evidence that God called men to be doctors and lawyers.
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captainmike
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that’s easy. God didn’t make male bodies to have kids. when a woman has a child, it puts her out of commission for work outside the home for over a year–to have the baby and then nurse it for a year afterwards.
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severus68
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That is not evidence of God calling men to be doctors and lawyers, just a poor reason to keep women at home, pregnant as long as they are fertile.
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