Be Warned & Believe what you Truly Will

[FurtherSuntime]

God can only be available love and acceptance period. To think there is a hell or a manipulating power in life through happenings is to deem God a relative.being.

For all, God would be many things I suppose, an executioner, social manager, lover, earthquake management, job promotion dept, theres no end to peoples imagination.

No where is it expected to believe in the material notion of hell. We are not told that if you do not believe the thing EXISTS…you will go there…

THEREFORE IT IS YOUR CHOICE TO EMBRACE A HELL IDEA…

The only way to believe in hell is to desire the annihilation of others indefinitely.

Be warned: The quantity of buried ill-will in such a believer negates optimum everlasting self realization. Ill-will, is the absorption of self fear in the material. An understanding of self, absorbed in the material denies Continuance. Only the free loving spirit within survives death as it is immaterial.

Very little of oneself will continue alongside the hell belief due to explained quantity of ill-will.

I’m afraid this is logical regardless of faith. Be warned, the hell idea , just like all within self progression regarding “choice” has been skillfully placed into creation by God himself.

An optional choice highlighting the Will of the true inner soul .

Belief in such a thing allows God to quickly and effectively SEPARATE the lovers from the haters.

What is Your WIll today ?

 

[ahs]

Hell is real, and God has expected us to believe it from the beginnig. There is a book called the Bible that talks alot about this.

Whether you believe in it or not will not keep you from going there.

A belief in hell has nothing to do with wanting people to go there (“to desire the annihilation of others indefinitely”). Rather, the knowldge of hell gives us further reason to reach out to others and spread the Word of God, the Gospels, the Truth, the need for repentance, so that everyone can enjoy eternity in Heaven.

Nothing we do or do not do can “allow God” to do anyhitng. He will seperate the weeds from the wheat regardless of your belief.

 

[FromTheAshes777]

A Catholic is required to believe in Hell and in the righteous judgement of God. It is a part of the deposite of Faith given to us by the Apostles.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

God can only be available love and acceptance period. To think there is a hell or a (blah blah blah opinion blah)
What is Your WIll today ?

My will is God’s will and I’ll listen to HIS teachings. Christ Himself spoke of Hell and warned us about the ‘narrow way’. So I’ll pray that since you identify yourself with initials RC which one would usually interpret as “Roman Catholic” that you come on board yourself with authentic Catholic teachings and not try to spread (probably absolutely sincerely and with 'good intention) inaccurate teachings about hell.

Please see the forum library for topics on “the Four Last Things” to see where you are veering 'off track".

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Here’s the start of the Library tract called “The Hell there Is” (sorry, my edit functions are squiffy today)

The doctrine of hell is so frightening that numerous heretical sects end up denying the reality of an eternal hell. The Unitarian-Universalists, the Seventh-Day Adventists, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Christadelphians, the Christian Scientists, the Religious Scientists, the New Agers, and the Mormons—all have rejected or modified the doctrine of hell so radically that it is no longer a serious threat. In recent decades, this decay has even invaded mainstream Evangelicalism, and a number of major Evangelical figures have advocated the view that there is no eternal hell—the wicked will simply be annihilated.

But the eternal nature of hell is stressed in the New Testament. For example, in Mark 9:47–48 Jesus warns us, “*t is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.” And in Revelation 14:11, we read: “And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Hell is not just a theoretical possibility. Jesus warns us that real people go there. He says, “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few” (Matt. 7:13–14).

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs” (CCC 1035).
…*

 

[Shike]

Your writing is very hard for me to understand.

Nevertheless there seems to be some kind of connecting thread through your words, so I will give it a shot.

Are you saying any of the following?
a) Hell does not exist
b) The idea that people can go to hell is harmful to a person holding that belief, regardless of religion
c) The Catholic Church doesn’t teach that hell exists. It is silent on the issue so one is not compelled to believe in hell as part of the deposit of faith.

All three propositions are flawed. The easiest one to disprove is c; a brief look through the Catechism is all one needs.

I seem to pick up on a very mistaken notion of hell or at least how one should incorporate hell into the rest of one’s beliefs. Having the belief in hell is not ill-will towards anyone. One must realize that they cannot judge another individual and claim that they will go to hell (or heaven for that matter). The fact is that they do not know the destination of the person because they do not know all the facts (nor cannot know as God knows) and cannot judge perfectly. As Christians we must also acknowledge that our salvation is not guaranteed simpliciter. Thus, there should really be a very humble attitude whenever someone mentions hell or thinks about it.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

To deny Hell is to deny a central tenet of Catholicism.

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says:

“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says:

“Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,. . .”

 

[ahs]

To deny Hell is to deny a central tenet of Catholicism.

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says:

“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says:

“Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,. . .”

Not to mention the fact that by denying hell one also denies the need for salvation, the Divinity of Christ, and the Passion He suffered to save us from eternal damnation.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Not to mention the fact that by denying hell one also denies the need for salvation, the Divinity of Christ, and the Passion He suffered to save us from eternal damnation.

I would agree. Why is salvation or belief necessary if everyone enters Heaven?

 

[FurtherSuntime]

Here’s the start of the Library tract called “The Hell there Is” (sorry, my edit functions are squiffy today)

The doctrine of hell is so frightening that numerous heretical sects end up denying the reality of an eternal hell. The Unitarian-Universalists, the Seventh-Day Adventists, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Christadelphians, the Christian Scientists, the Religious Scientists, the New Agers, and the Mormons—all have rejected or modified the doctrine of hell so radically that it is no longer a serious threat. In recent decades, this decay has even invaded mainstream Evangelicalism, and a number of major Evangelical figures have advocated the view that there is no eternal hell—the wicked will simply be annihilated.

But the eternal nature of hell is stressed in the New Testament. For example, in Mark 9:47–48 Jesus warns us, “*t is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.” And in Revelation 14:11, we read: “And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Hell is not just a theoretical possibility. Jesus warns us that real people go there. He says, “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few” (Matt. 7:13–14).

The Catechism of the Catholic Church* states: “The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs” (CCC 1035).
…

So…

.“And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee; for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. . .” (Matthew 5:29 KJV) (Jesus goes on in the same vein about the right hand.)

If one does not pluck the eye out, how can it be factually determined that salvation is without possibility in atonement…? It cannot.

Since it cannot be determined …the casting into hell mentioned above, can ONLY be, the on-going human torment within the life itself.in the state of sin. I don’t believe this can be argued.

A clear ratification in the location to be, a living condition of anxiety (hell) .Not an eternal torture chamber which would be favored among the ignorant ancient people of the time and as we can see our present time. A direct understanding by Jesus himself.

Also , I believe this is the only time in the Bible Jesus himself utters the word Hell.
Not to mention the translation implications of the word Hell in the times.

Common sense is important. Be warned.

We are NOT told we “must” believe in a torture chamber. All belief in the hell idea is choice.
All are lost souls as, the choice unfolds a need to conquer in order to feel appeased in demarcation. A truly material essence of oneself.

Above you have your evidence. It is logical . No twisting of words can be employed . They are the words of Jesus Himself. Be warned and govern with a free spirit of love. God Is Love and has no affiliation with anything but Love . Your Will, represents what you are. Gods Will is
the occurrence of Love in the eternal as it is what comprises God. Nothing else will do, so nothing else will be.

All who embrace Hell are not in Communion with God…I can see this is a most neccesary thread

 

[coolduude]

I guess Satan lives in Heaven now. Silly me for thinking otherwise

 

[FurtherSuntime]

I would agree. Why is salvation or belief necessary if everyone enters Heaven?

Belief is necessary because what God desires in behavior for man…

IS WHAT IS BEST FOR MAN MATERIALLY AS WELL SPIRITUALLY…

If you conduct yourself for an existence in heaven as a prime reason for behavior , attitude ect
you will SURELY forfeit any potential for everlasting life…

WHY…?

Because the earthly Love was then artificial and thus…BEGRUDGED.

Begrudged love on earth is not what God had in mind when he sent his Son Jesus… This is entirely rational.
The entire meaning of Spirituality has therefore been confused and covered, in the provided thinking I’m glad to have been able to help

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Belief is necessary because what God desires in behavior for man…

IS WHAT IS BEST FOR MAN MATERIALLY AS WELL SPIRITUALLY…

If you conduct yourself for an existence in heaven as a prime reason for behavior , attitude ect
you will SURELY forfeit any potential for everlasting life…

WHY…?

Because the earthly Love was then artificial and thus…BEGRUDGED.

Begrudged love on earth is not what God had in mind when he sent his Son Jesus… This is entirely rational.
The entire meaning of Spirituality has therefore been confused and covered, in the provided thinking I’m glad to have been able to help

You didn’t address the necessity of salvation, the central reason for Jesus’ coming and passion. In addition, why is belief necessary? If I behave correctly in a material and spiritual fashion, then belief is not essential according to your reasoning. Unfortunately, I cannot consider your (name removed by moderator)ut helpful as of yet.

 

[FurtherSuntime]

I guess Satan lives in Heaven now. Silly me for thinking otherwise

Immature comments will be exposed as such. Attempting to gather acceptance using my carefully thought out thread with sarcasm is uncharitable, immature, and most of all a reflection of how one considers the active thoughts of others

Laughing disconnects conscious thought.

 

[FurtherSuntime]

You didn’t address the necessity of salvation, the central reason for Jesus’ coming and passion. In addition, why is belief necessary? If I behave correctly in a material and spiritual fashion, then belief is not essential according to your reasoning. Unfortunately, I cannot consider your (name removed by moderator)ut helpful as of yet.

Well its very simple. God is the ultimate Creator. Theres really no such thing as a great creation of art without a signature. Jesus said…" to know me is to know the Father"

Did Jesus go about his life burning people at the steak? I don’t think so.

Belief is necessary as we are only human and must recognize in the virtue of true humility
that we can grow weak and falter. Inspiration in the example of love and peace in The Son of God is a reality in human need.

If a person gives 10 bucks into the help the poor basket each week because he is following a program which would otherwise not be in effect…he or she is acting out of fear,NOT genuine compassion.
Genuine compassion is what Jesus is all about.
One CANNOT have genuine compassion with an idi amin torture chamber in mind as
God is simply not idi amin…sorry:thumbsup:

( will be back later tonight after a work related appointment in case I missed any of the interesting entries.) All will be logical:thumbsup: I can easily see this thread is most neccesary

 

[coolduude]

I honestly do not believe that you have it right and 2,000 years of Church teaching has it wrong. Don’t you think the great saints- like Augustine or Thomas Aquinas- would have figured out there was no hell if this ‘doctrine’ of yours is really true? What you’re trying to say is that everyone in the Church of all time (again, that’s 2,000 years of history) got it all totally wrong and you are right. Do you understand the implications of that?

 

[FurtherSuntime]

Your writing is very hard for me to understand.

Nevertheless there seems to be some kind of connecting thread through your words, so I will give it a shot.

Are you saying any of the following?
a) Hell does not exist
b) The idea that people can go to hell is harmful to a person holding that belief, regardless of religion
c) The Catholic Church doesn’t teach that hell exists. It is silent on the issue so one is not compelled to believe in hell as part of the deposit of faith.

All three propositions are flawed. The easiest one to disprove is c; a brief look through the Catechism is all one needs.

I seem to pick up on a very mistaken notion of hell or at least how one should incorporate hell into the rest of one’s beliefs. Having the belief in hell is not ill-will towards anyone. One must realize that they cannot judge another individual and claim that they will go to hell (or heaven for that matter). The fact is that they do not know the destination of the person because they do not know all the facts (nor cannot know as God knows) and cannot judge perfectly. As Christians we must also acknowledge that our salvation is not guaranteed simpliciter. Thus, there should really be a very humble attitude whenever someone mentions hell or thinks about it.

No where is it expressly declared that if one does not truly believe a Hell exists that he or she is damned to hell itself. I addressed logically one of Jesus’s direct comments above , showing that the word hell in early translations could only mean the hell in life lived improperly.As confirmed in the words of Jesus himself:thumbsup:

Also, I have read over my entries and they are very clear , as well will not alter without logical
reason. In “c” above you twist the ideas in my provided thoughts. Clearly if you read them , no where is the word silent applied to Catholicism. Implications stemming from “c” are illogical

Yes, ones who embrace the idea of a Loving God who also has the character of idi amin or other maniac are following the …“wrong God” One cannot love two masters of opposing
need. This is logical. Please impart the component of need within God for hell so I can further
discuss the already given rational thought in this area. It is clear if not speed reading. Speed reading will not work with my thinking as all has been carefully thought out

Ill-will, comes in many forms. Ultimately it is a manifestation of need. One needs then to believe a hell exists. Serving what need may I ask…? (This is all well explained in given entries)

Man progress’s very slowly. In Gods design the sun has millions of years ahead. Catholicism must grow out of burning people at the steak. In order to reject burning at the steak a hearty hell believer is rejecting carrying out Gods Will. Off with the head says man , it is what God has planned for you so we shall begin without delay. God then shall favor me, also I know it is Gods Will once complete as ALL is Gods Will. Gather the wood at once.

Hell believers gather the wood for the wrong God. It seems that most in this thread would fit quite nicely in older times. Exactly how much would it take to conform to this deplorable act
of torching people…not much…or lets put it this way (respectfully)

Do you really believe Shike that any argument a Christian would have who actively believes in hell , would have success, in dissuading an active mob intent on burning someone to death for God?

 

[FurtherSuntime]

I honestly do not believe that you have it right and 2,000 years of Church teaching has it wrong. Don’t you think the great saints- like Augustine or Thomas Aquinas- would have figured out there was no hell if this ‘doctrine’ of yours is really true? What you’re trying to say is that everyone in the Church of all time (again, that’s 2,000 years of history) got it all totally wrong and you are right. Do you understand the implications of that?

You are implying a concede to the faultlessness of my argument by virtue of offering unrelated consequence’s only.

The suggested and opinionated consequence’s have nothing what so ever to do with the reality of Creation.

 

[Shike]

Immature comments will be exposed as such. Attempting to gather acceptance using my carefully thought out thread with sarcasm is uncharitable, immature, and most of all a reflection of how one considers the active thoughts of others

Laughing disconnects conscious thought.

Though his point was couched in sarcasm, he made a good point nonetheless. A point that you didn’t address.

 

[coolduude]

You are implying a concede to the faultlessness of my argument by virtue of offering unrelated consequence’s only.

The suggested and opinionated consequence’s have nothing what so ever to do with the reality of Creation.

Cause and effect.

Cause: you stated heresy.
Effect: The implications I wrote.

They aren’t ‘unrelated’.