"Be ye holy..."

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It’s rather difficult to be holy in the midst of the cultural midden of our day.
The dominant cultural ethos is conveyed through nearly every organ of culture.
Often in pleasing disguises. As is/was the following presentation,
which took place in Martha’s Vineyard, in 1987.
Just curious. What makes you think the the lyrics of the song necessarily determine the meaning? I don’t know about you, but I know plenty of songs whose lyrics I don’t understand yet I don’t “forfeit” rational thinking. Furthermore, why is such rationality even a requirement? Its art. Its free to express just about anything, even simple ideas. Why kill it by reading too much into things?
 
Just curious. What makes you think the the lyrics of the song necessarily determine the meaning? I don’t know about you, but I know plenty of songs whose lyrics I don’t understand yet I don’t “forfeit” rational thinking. Furthermore, why is such rationality even a requirement? Its art. Its free to express just about anything, even simple ideas. Why kill it by reading too much into things?
Possibly because words do convey meaning.

quote: Lost Wanderer
Furthermore, why is such rationality even a requirement? Its art. Its free to express just about anything, even simple ideas.
Precisely my point. What ‘simple ideas’ are being offered,
in this particular work?

If art is “…free to express just about anything…”
than I am free to critique a given work. Nu?

quote: Lost Wanderer
Why kill it by reading too much into things?
Why have book reviews or movie reviews?

If the critical sense must abdicate, in the face of a work by a cultural icon,
then cancel my ticket for that! cruise. 🍿

reen12
 
Diogenes was a philosopher in ancient Greece.
He went about carrying a lantern - in the daytime.
When asked why he carried this lantern, in broad daylight,
he said that he was seeking an ‘honest man.’

I go about seeking meaning, in what is said, done or created.

There are a lot of people like Diogenes and me.
We have a swell time, in our investigations. http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/2.gif

"Give me an honest man! give me meaning! - give me another drink!"

Proving that philosophy is not an abstruse area of human endeavor.

reen12
 
I am permanently in the debt of Teresa of Avila.
Now there was one mature lady, both psychologically and spiritually.

It was she who said:

“God, deliver me from gloomy saints.”

In terms of holiness, a sense of humor constitutes a sense of proportion.
And a sense of proportion anchors one in blessed reality.

"T’was C.S. Lewis who noted that the only reality missing,
in the scriptures, was God’s sense of humor.

Since we, as creatures, cannot possess a quality not present
in the Creator, I wonder how many times a day God laughs!

reen12
 
Possibly because words do convey meaning.
The question is, are they the only conveyors of meaning? I for one prefer a song’s associations as triggers of meaning even if the lyrics mean differently (assuming I can even understand the song’s language or if even there are lyrics at all).
Precisely my point. What ‘simple ideas’ are being offered,
in this particular work?
Well one thing’s for sure, your analysis of the song you mentioned is far from what I’d call simple.
If art is “…free to express just about anything…”
than I am free to critique a given work. Nu?
Yes but even the style of critique is in itself up for criticism.
Why have book reviews or movie reviews?

If the critical sense must abdicate, in the face of a work by a cultural icon,
then cancel my ticket for that! cruise. 🍿
Yes but that doesn’t mean there’s no line to be drawn as to how much meaning we can read into something. Sometimes a song about spiders is really simply a song about spiders.
 
The question is, are they the only conveyors of meaning? I for one prefer a song’s associations as triggers of meaning even if the lyrics mean differently (assuming I can even understand the song’s language or if even there are lyrics at all).

Well one thing’s for sure, your analysis of the song you mentioned is far from what I’d call simple.

Yes but even the style of critique is in itself up for criticism.

Yes but that doesn’t mean there’s no line to be drawn as to how much meaning we can read into something. Sometimes a song about spiders is really simply a song about spiders.
Posts, about what I think, are simply posts about what I think. 🙂
They are ever open to critique.

quote: Lost Wanderer
Yes but that doesn’t mean there’s no line to be drawn as to how much meaning we can read into something
Each reviewer of my work is free to accept or to reject my thought
on it’s merits - or lack of same. No one has the authority to draw any such ‘line.’

There is no infallible Ministry of Meaning - to endow observations with a
Ministry imprimatur. No one person can exhaust the meaning presented
by various phenomena. I bring my own life story with me, when seeking meaning.
This is one reason why a person may say: “This has great meaning for me.”

quote: Lost Wanderer
The question is, are they the only conveyors of meaning? I for one prefer a song’s associations as triggers of meaning even if the lyrics mean differently (assuming I can even understand the song’s language or if even there are lyrics at all).
Good point! There is a type of floor cleaner that has great meaning for me.
They used same in the convent where I resided for a brief period of time,
over 40 years ago.
That this particular cleaner aroma has meaning for me, is understandable.
That this cleaner aroma may have no meaning to anyone else is also understandable.

An instance of: “I bring my own life story with me, when seeking meaning.”
Apparently, my nose goes with me on the search as well. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

reen
 
Each reviewer of my work is free to accept or to reject my thought
on it’s merits - or lack of same. No one has the authority to draw any such ‘line.’

There is no infallible Ministry of Meaning - to endow observations with a
Ministry imprimatur. No one person can exhaust the meaning presented
by various phenomena. I bring my own life story with me, when seeking meaning.
This is one reason why a person may say: “This has great meaning for me.”
Ah well in that case, we can simply discuss the different meanings we obtain from songs we know. However, how then can we claim to criticize the morality of a certain song when we can have so many different takes on it?
Good point! There is a type of floor cleaner that has great meaning for me.
They used same in the convent where I resided for a brief period of time,
over 40 years ago.
That this particular cleaner aroma has meaning for me, is understandable.
That this cleaner aroma may have no meaning to anyone else is also understandable.

An instance of: “I bring my own life story with me, when seeking meaning.”
Apparently, my nose goes with me on the search as well. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif
Exactly. Though on a lighter note, I’m sure many classicists have a lot of sophisticated opinions regarding Johannes Brahms’ Hungarian Dance No.5. Me on the other hand, the only thing that’ll ever come to mind hearing it is the comedy Dracula: Dead and Loving it.
 
I suppose that many have questions about the meaning of life,
about suffering and loss, about the hereafter.
Such questions have much to do with:

“Be ye holy, as I the Lord your God am holy.” [Lev. 19:2]

I earned a degree in philosophy 40 years ago.
I then proceeded to read Eastern thought,
followed by myriad pages of professional level works in psychology.

I have given life’s existential questions much thought over many years.

Aside from religious faith, the only two approaches to life -
and what life holds - that make any kind of sense to me -
are Existential thought and the thought of the East.

Existentialism holds, basically, that life has no intrinsic meaning,
and that meaning can only be had through the meaning that
we choose to create. Simply, each of us ‘endows’ life with meaning.

Eastern thought is much concerned with the here and now.
Transcending suffering - by becoming detached from the
sources of human suffering. ‘Attachment’ causes suffering.]


While I reject both systems of thought, their speculations
are worth noting.

Only in Judaic thought were my questions fully - yet simply - addressed.

reen12
 
I suppose that many have questions about the meaning of life,
about suffering and loss, about the hereafter.
Such questions have much to do with:

“Be ye holy, as I the Lord your God am holy.” [Lev. 19:2]

I earned a degree in philosophy 40 years ago.
I then proceeded to read Eastern thought,
followed by myriad pages of professional level works in psychology.

I have given life’s existential questions much thought, over many years.

Aside from religious faith, the only two approaches to life -
and what life holds - that make any kind of sense to me -
are Existential thought and the thought of the East.

Existentialism holds, basically, that life has no intrinsic meaning,
and that meaning can only be had through the meaning that
we choose to create. Simply, each of us ‘endows’ life with meaning.

Eastern thought is much concerned with the here and now.
Transcending suffering - by becoming detached from the
sources of human suffering. ‘Attachment’ causes suffering.]


While I reject both systems of thought, their speculations
are worth noting.

reen12
 
A sense of the absurd fits one to cope with the absurd.

Caviling abounds,
Caricatures arrayed in their plenty,
Seeking reason… where reason hath no entry.
-mkg​

Christians can point to the gospel of John.
There, Christ is defined as ‘the Word of God.’
Word = Logos.
Logos,
from Greek philosophy, meaning the informing principle.

“Through Him all things were made…”
-John 1:3

Christ as informing principle of all creation.

Therefore…Christ as Lord of Meaning?

Meaning is a Person?

reen12
 
A sense of the absurd fits one to cope with the absurd.

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reen12
 
Reality is sometimes obdurate - vis a vis
the quest for modernity’s Holy Grail - overweening self-esteem.

“Be all that you can be!”

Be the best sheep. Be the best chicken you can be.

Sounds like exhausting work, to moi.
As does the 'buried talents" image - and Saul’s “I’ve run the race…”

…Better the pasture, wherein He gives rest to both sheep and chickens,
who are all worn out - seeking self-esteem and being all they can be. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

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reen12
 
Holiness should not be a choice; it should be the way of life. We must strive for holiness. Only by striving for holiness, may we transform ourselves into unity with Christ.

However, striving for holiness is not meant to be exhausting. Striving for holiness should not make us worn out. When we keep in mind that holiness does not equal to perfection but to keep on keeping on, we may enjoy God’s grace and working with Him tirelessly. And working toward holiness is not about our self-esteem but about fulfilling the call of Christ.🙂
 
Oh! yeah.

youtube.com/watch?v=CskNve7Gh3A&feature=related

The One Who waits in eternal patience will rebuild bridges.
Using the wood of the cross - if needed.

Maybe that is why He was carpenter.

He will build a bed frame for those who need rest.
He will build a house to keep the cold away.
He will build a chair for one who’s strength is failing.
He will build a table for those who have none.

Did He build Jacob’s ladder?

reen12
 
Holiness should not be a choice; it should be the way of life. We must strive for holiness. Only by striving for holiness, may we transform ourselves into unity with Christ.

However, striving for holiness is not meant to be exhausting. Striving for holiness should not make us worn out. When we keep in mind that holiness does not equal to perfection but to keep on keeping on, we may enjoy God’s grace and working with Him tirelessly. And working toward holiness is not about our self-esteem but about fulfilling the call of Christ.🙂
OK. Thank you for your thoughts, InLight247.
Give me a while to consider what you’ve written in your post, if you would.

You know, my entire life has been a search for meaning.
Despite the schooling and the decades that I’ve spent reading,
I’m not even sure if I could define “meaning.”
Would you have a thought on that, given what I’ve written in one of the posts here?

quote:reen12
Christians can point to the gospel of John.
There, Christ is defined as ‘the Word of God.’
Word = Logos.
Logos,
from Greek philosophy, meaning the informing principle.

“Through Him all things were made…”
-John 1:3
Christ as informing principle of all creation.

Therefore…Christ as Lord of Meaning?

Meaning is a Person?
reen
 
Meaning is a person,
Love is a person,
Truth is a person,
Justice is a person,
Perfection is a person,
or
Persons?
One nature,
Three persons.

As much as I love reading St. Augustine,
C.S. Lewis and St. Aquinas, I still cannot think properly about such a thing.

Blessed be the Lord our God!!!
 
OK. Thank you for your thoughts, InLight247.
Give me a while to consider what you’ve written in your post, if you would.

You know, my entire life has been a search for meaning.
Despite the schooling and the decades that I’ve spent reading,
I’m not even sure if I could define “meaning.”
Would you have a thought on that, given what I’ve written in one of the posts here?

reen
One day when I was fifteen, I was standing at a busy cross road after school, watching the busy crowd on the street and decided at that moment that without God and eternity life was absurd and had no meaning. I was not an official believer then.

When I finally got baptized as a Catholic in the summer of my college freshman year, I knew I have found the meaning of life. The question of meaning has never popped up ever since.

Knowing I am created in love by the loving God with a special purpose in His mind, I walked through life by doing my best to fulfill my call. I am a simple person and I consider that a blessing. Meaning is not something I need to search hard. Meaning is to live, move and have my being in the Lord and to walk toward heaven by living my life to the full.
 
Holiness should not be a choice; it should be the way of life. We must strive for holiness. Only by striving for holiness, may we transform ourselves into unity with Christ.

However, striving for holiness is not meant to be exhausting. Striving for holiness should not make us worn out. When we keep in mind that holiness does not equal to perfection but to keep on keeping on, we may enjoy God’s grace and working with Him tirelessly. And working toward holiness is not about our self-esteem but about fulfilling the call of Christ.🙂
In reply to that which you wrote, InLight247, I can say that
sometimes I write for those who may experience life as I do.

Those of us sheep who need God, and who do not feel
that we can measure up to the stated Christian standard “Be ye perfect…”
  • us sheep can find peace, and a safe place with God in His pasture,
    where we don’t have to worry anymore about ‘self-esteem,’
    or ‘being all that we can be,’ or about treasure’s hidden in a field,
    sagging fig trees, ‘fires that never quench’ and all of that
    other scarey stuff. At the end of each day, we can go
    be with Him in His pasture, telling Him about what we saw, or heard,
    or anything that puzzled us during the day.
    He is even there in the daytime, in case we need Him.
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That is why the God of Israel provides a pasture,
where He cares for and protects His sheep.
They talk about this in psalm 23.

As for sanctity, we’ve heard that a Christian said:

“All the way to heaven is heaven, for those who love God.”
-St. Catherine of Siena

reens
 
In reply to that which you wrote, InLight247, I can say that
sometimes I write for those who may experience life as I do.

Those of us sheep who need God, and who do not feel that we can measure up to the stated Christian standard “Be ye perfect…”
I hope I did not create a mis-impression by my brief and straightforward writing that I am able to measure up to “Be ye perfect…” I am far away from it.

As I mentioned, being holy does not mean to be perfect. The emphasis is on striving.

The reason I think striving for holiness should not be exhausting is that I know my striving is based on God’s grace. Without His grace, I won’t even be able to strive. Since I count on God’s grace, and God’s grace is ever abundant, I will not be exhausted. Even with my numerous weakness and miseries, I often feel I am His beloved daughter. With that assurance in mind, I can work with Him tirelessly. Yes, “All the way to heaven is heaven, for those who love God.”🙂
 
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