Beautiful Annulments...

[LilyM]

Hate to break it to ya folks cheating is NOT grounds for an annulment. No matter how angry you might be at Bob or even your own spouse…traditionally you don’t automatically get an annulment out of spit because someone commited adultry.

Sorry

Exactly - and neither is the Church entitled to grant annulments out of spite because of adultery after the fact. Nor does the Church do so, unless individual bishops or canon lawyers are biased or corrupt. In which case the recourse is the same as for any corrupt or biased lawyer or judge - appeal the decision

 

[Lou2U]

Look at Bob’s marriage.

His whole Church watched this take place

They had 9 kids obviously the consummated the marriage

They were together 25 years in such a state.

You have to be kidding me? How is this NOT a marriage? Many of you are grasping for straws, looking for that invisible loop hole that is pretty much impossible to prove in one way or another.

Bob was not drunk at his wedding, he started drinking after his wife and Church split them up. He even has to sit in mass while his wife is there with Henry and their 9 kids.

Bob is a saint, meanwhile you folks rationalize a grave thing happening that has happened to many in our Church! How is this not divorce? How on earth could the Church sign off on such a horrible thing?

No, he started drinking because he committed adultery and is unhappy with the outcome.

Lou

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Hate to break it to ya folks cheating is NOT grounds for an annulment. No matter how angry you might be at Bob or even your own spouse…traditionally you don’t automatically get an annulment out of spit because someone commited adultry.

Sorry

Yep. And if an annulment was granted, it wasn’t because of adultery. My marriage is invalid in the eyes of your church. 25 years and 9 kids would not make it valid or even be evidence that it is.

 

[Polluted]

Bob is fictional. Is this a situation you are in, OP?

No, it isn’t. As it’s already been explained, an annulment looks at the validity of the marriage at the time of the wedding.

Also, did you mean “out of spite?” Because I have a hard time imagining someone would get an annulment just out of spite and for revenge. In the scenario, Ann has every right to see if an annulment is applicable in her situation because she wants to be happy with someone else.

Is this your situation?

Lou

Really? She has an automatic right to file for an annulment so she can have sex and “be happy” with someone other than who the Church proclaimed to be her husband? Do you hear yourself?

Guess it’s easy to condemn a homosexual to a life of chastity, but not the heterosexual because they have a right to have sex and “be happy”

I’m not buying it. Time for an honest assessment of what’s going on.

 

[LilyM]

Look at Bob’s marriage.

His whole Church watched this take place

They had 9 kids obviously the consummated the marriage

They were together 25 years in such a state.

You have to be kidding me? How is this NOT a marriage? Many of you are grasping for straws, looking for that invisible loop hole that is pretty much impossible to prove in one way or another.

Bob was not drunk at his wedding, he started drinking after his wife and Church split them up. He even has to sit in mass while his wife is there with Henry and their 9 kids.

Bob is a saint, meanwhile you folks rationalize a grave thing happening that has happened to many in our Church! How is this not divorce? How on earth could the Church sign off on such a horrible thing?

Bob is an alcoholic adulterer. His wife, who has done nothing wrong and much right in seeking a decision from.the Church about the validity of their marriage, is closer to being a saint. Let’s not put Bob on any sort of pedestal here.

 

[1ke]

There’s nothing wrong with inventing a hypothetical as the the basis for a question, or argument.

However with nullity cases it is quite pointless. Nullity cases have very detailed questions that are asked and proofs that are supplied. The OP merely gives a couple of lines of fictional, and unlikely, details and simply concludes the decree of nullity was given in error. That is not productive in any way. It is a straw man argument.

 

[Polluted]

Bob is an alcoholic adulterer. His wife, who has done nothing wrong, is closer to being a saint. Let’s not put Bob on any sort of pedestal here.

Bob confessed his sin of adultry. And while he may struggle with the bottle because of these horrible events, he is more morally sound than his wife. Who like many of you. Left him immediately after he cheated and sought another man because she wanted to have sex again.

It’s black and white folks. How can you all be so rightous on other issues but lax your morality because you think…Bob’s and adulterer and deserves it.

 

[PhiloMed]

Really? She has an automatic right to file for an annulment so she can have sex and “be happy” with someone other than who the Church proclaimed to be her husband? Do you hear yourself?

Guess it’s easy to condemn a homosexual to a life of chastity, but not the heterosexual because they have a right to have sex and “be happy”

I’m not buying it. Time for an honest assessment of what’s going on.

Yes. What’s going on.

We have a troll with an agenda.

 

[Lou2U]

Really? She has an automatic right to file for an annulment so she can have sex and “be happy” with someone who the Church proclaimed to be her husband? Do you hear yourself?

Guess it’s easy to condemn a homosexual to a life of chastity, but not the heterosexual because they have a right to have sex and “be happy”

I’m not buying it. Time for an honest assessment of what’s going on.

Let me break it down:

Bob has an affair with someone else. Bob is clearly in the wrong.

Ann then does not want to reconcile, so they get a divorce.

Ann meets someone else and wants to be with them. She applies for an annulment, maybe because she remembers something that could have made the marriage invalid or maybe because she wants to know whether she can have another romantic relationship.

The annulment is granted, so she can validly remarry. Bob has legally never been her husband because the marriage was never valid.

Bob then becomes an alcoholic, something which you seem to want to pin on everyone else, OP. This isn’t true, because no-one can force another to drink.

In the Catholic Church, a marriage is presumed valid (unless it’s blindingly obvious it can’t be). When investigated, this may not be the same.

You’re getting very defensive, OP. Is this your situation?

Lou

 

[Polluted]

Let me ask this to all the Bob haters. Is it possible the Church is mellowing the rules on marriage in order to bring more Catholics back to full communion, helping to stop them leaving for say…the Lutherans or any other protestant Church that will fully accept them in a possible adulterous relationship?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

If I throw a party and my neighbors call the police with a noise complaint, the police show up at my door, smell a meth lab, claim probable cause, come in, search, find a lab, and arrest me, it would be dishonest and inaccurate for me to claim that I went to jail for playing music too loudly.

It would also show a serious lack of understanding of the justice system, would demonstrate that I don’t take responsibility for my own actions, and that I have a victim mentality.

Same thing. Just because the affair spawned the civil divorce and annulment request does not mean that what the tribunal finds or rules on has anything to do with the affair.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

You all need to keep in mind that Bob is a small time bike shop owner in his little town. Combine that with the alcoholism that followed how in the heck is Bob supposed to take his case all the way to Rome? Do you think Bob has the time, energy, mental strength and resources to do such a thing? Do you know how high Bob’s alimony is after 25 years of marriage?

How about Christ’s Church simply calls a spade a spade. Why are we even pouring time and resources into homosexual marriage when there is a bigger issue at hand. What about Bob?

If Ann is remarried, Bob wouldn’t be paying alimony. He’d be paying child support for only the minor children.

Bob could get treatment for his alcoholism and find a nice woman. He’d be free to do so.

 

[LilyM]

Bob confessed his sin of adultry. And while he may struggle with the bottle because of these horrible events, he is more morally sound than his wife. Who like many of you. Left him immediately after he cheated and sought another man because she wanted to have sex again.

It’s black and white folks. How can you all be so rightous on other issues but lax your morality because you think…Bob’s and adulterer and deserves it.

Bob is the one who couldn’t keep.it in his pants. Anne wouldn’t have gone through the annulment and remarriage process (ask some of the posters here how long and dificult it can be - far more.so than a civil no-fault divorce) if all.she wanted was sex with Henry.

 

[Polluted]

Let me break it down:

Bob has an affair with someone else. Bob is clearly in the wrong.

Ann then does not want to reconcile, so they get a divorce.

Ann meets someone else and wants to be with them. She applies for an annulment, maybe because she remembers something that could have made the marriage invalid or maybe because she wants to know whether she can have another romantic relationship.

The annulment is granted, so she can validly remarry. Bob has legally never been her husband because the marriage was never valid.

Bob then becomes an alcoholic, something which you seem to want to pin on everyone else, OP. This isn’t true, because no-one can force another to drink.

In the Catholic Church, a marriage is presumed valid (unless it’s blindingly obvious it can’t be). When investigated, this may not be the same.

You’re getting very defensive, OP. Is this your situation?

Lou

So Bob cheats, and SUDDENLY now that there is another man in the picture suddenly something in Ann’s mind clicks that makes her remember SOMETHING that might make the marriage nulled?

A little coincidental don’t ya say??? Where was this burst of insight the first 25 years of marriage? Why didn’t it flood her brain after the birth of their 1st child? Or the 7th? OR THE 9TH!

I thought is Catholics pride ourselves on reason and intellect as well as our faith? Why is the critical thinking shut off all of the sudden because Bob (who is an alcoholic now) commited adultry ONCE. You people do realize his alcoholism has nothing to do with the validity of his marriage right?

Bob may be a sinful man like all of us, but he doesn’t deserve injustice.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

If Ann is remarried, Bob wouldn’t be paying alimony. He’d be paying child support for only the minor children.

Bob could get treatment for his alcoholism and find a nice woman. He’d be free to do so.

And if he’s such a “saint”, it should be no problem.

 

[LilyM]

If I throw a party and my neighbors call the police with a noise complaint, the police show up at my door, smell a meth lab, claim probable cause, come in, search, find a lab, and arrest me, it would be dishonest and inaccurate for me to claim that I went to jail for playing music too loudly.

It would also show a serious lack of understanding of the justice system, would demonstrate that I don’t take responsibility for my own actions, and that I have a victim mentality.

Same thing. Just because the affair spawned the civil divorce and annulment request does not mean that what the tribunal finds or rules on has anything to do with the affair.

Very well put.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I’m behind. For what grounds were the annulment granted? We’re those mentioned?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

So Bob cheats, and SUDDENLY now that there is another man in the picture suddenly something in Ann’s mind clicks that makes her remember SOMETHING that might make the marriage nulled?

A little coincidental don’t ya say??? Where was this burst of insight the first 25 years of marriage? Why didn’t it flood her brain after the birth of their 1st child? Or the 7th? OR THE 9TH!

I thought is Catholics pride ourselves on reason and intellect as well as our faith? Why is the critical thinking shut off all of the sudden because Bob (who is an alcoholic now) commited adultry ONCE. You people do realize his alcoholism has nothing to do with the validity of his marriage right?

Yes. But you don’t seem to understand that the ONLY reason responsible for Bob’s choices is Bob.

 

[Lou2U]

So Bob cheats, and SUDDENLY now that there is another man in the picture suddenly something in Ann’s mind clicks that makes her remember SOMETHING that might make the marriage nulled?

A little coincidental don’t ya say??? Where was this burst of insight the first 25 years of marriage? Why didn’t it flood her brain after the birth of their 1st child? Or the 7th? OR THE 9TH!

I thought is Catholics pride ourselves on reason and intellect as well as our faith? Why is the critical thinking shut off all of the sudden because Bob (who is an alcoholic now) commited adultry ONCE. You people do realize his alcoholism has nothing to do with the validity of his marriage right?

Calm down, OP.

So Bob cheats, and Ann doesn’t want to stay with a man who has completely betrayed her and broken her trust.

The above was only an example. Maybe she does, maybe she doesn’t.

If Bob wanted to stay married, and couldn’t take the consequences of having an affair, he shouldn’t have had one.

You sound very bitter about this “scenario”, OP. Is this your situation?

Lou

 

[Lou2U]

Yes. But you don’t seem to understand that the ONLY reason responsible for Bob’s choices is Bob.

Yes. Bob is a grown man who can make his own decisions, and he should be a grown man when dealing with the consequences of his decisions.

Instead, OP, you seem intent on blaming everyone else. Bob is at fault.

Lou