"Because it's not love without a tax break"

[BlueEyedLady]

$$$$ Most of the things you mentioned as the “biggest reasons” you hear relate to money. $$$$

Because guess what, in our society you can’t live without it! Yes, gay people want to be able to put they one they love on their health insurance so that if something bad happens they can get treatment. Gay people want to leave their partners their pension benefits, because they worked as a team throughout life. They want ownership of their house to default to their partner, instead of to the bank or another relative. (Even if you will something to someone that you’re not married to your kids or other relatives can challenge that in court saying it was rightfully theirs.)

So yes, a lot of it comes down to money, but it’s hardly mercenary. If your husband is a good man he wants you to be protected in all of those financial ways as well.

 

[gardenswithkids]

…So yes, a lot of it comes down to money, …

Point made. Thank you.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Point made. Thank you.

So I guess you opt out of every advantage you and your spouse get, because protecting each other financially would be greedy and mercenary right? Or perhaps the only reason you wanted to marry in the first place was money?

 

[ConstantineTG]

So they get a tax break because they can produce kids, and another when they do. That’s silly. Let’s just give them the tax breaks when they do. Why give benefits to couples who don’t want kids, can’t have kids, or are too old?

I don’t have a problem with this. I get a cheque from the government of Canada for every kid I have under 18.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Just to clarify: “tax-breaks” are not government assistance. They are the government *allowing *people keep more of the money those people earned. Gee, thanks government.

Remember: that is not the government’s money. That money belongs to the* people who earn it. The government just thinks *that money belongs to it, and, sadly, some people agree.

-Chris

That is why its government assistance. “Hey, that’s our money! But because of this and that, we’ll let you keep some of our money for your use.”

 

[Allegra]

So they get a tax break because they can produce kids, and another when they do. That’s silly. Let’s just give them the tax breaks when they do. Why give benefits to couples who don’t want kids, can’t have kids, or are too old?

That is probably the only way the issue can be resolved fairly, in my opinion. Homosexuals complain that married couples recieve tax benefits that they can’t have. The solution isn’t to change the definition of marriage in order to give gays the tax benefits. The solution is to change the credentials for getting the tax credit. If the purpose of the tax credit is to support the raising of children, give it to households that are supporting children.

 

[edwest2]

An article raises the points that legal recognition of same sex relationships will have economic impact and cost the tax payers money. I found it interesting.
lifesitenews.com/news/same-sex-marriage-a-welfare-program-not-a-right

Excellent point. The party line refers to “rights and responsibilities.” What are the responsibilities? Honestly. Aside from perhaps living in the same place for a specified period, it appears the rights are all about the benefits, and not any responsibilities. Monogamy is not necessary. And some gays don’t even believe in the institution of marriage.

So this appears to be a case of “Pay for my lifestyle.”

Do you know what a “Domestic Partner” is? Recently, Michigan Governor, Rick Snyder, signed a ban on domestic partner benefits. The first to react:

“The move is a blow to gay and lesbian activists throughout the state.”

Where is the money going to come from in the hardest hit State of the New Depression? I live with a relative. Can I get Domestic Partner benefits? How much?

And then we have the scare tactics from gays. They’ll leave and what? No one other than gay people will be found to fill the positions mentioned, especially when highly skilled people are dying to get back to work?

annarbor.com/news/mass-exodus-university-of-michigan-tries-to-fight-domestic-partner-benefits-ban-as-employees-begin-t/

Peace,
Ed

 

[Allegra]

I’m getting married in a couple months and wow the tax benefits we are receiving are insane! (We had our employers run example checks.) Personally I think its a little ridiculous to have my marriage subsidized like that, especially to that extent. We really aren’t doing anything to warrant it, and nothing in our lives will really change.

The marriage tax break assumes that most households will have one spouse that is financially dependant on the other. Perhpas it should be changed to “adult dependent” credit and only given in situations where one spouse is not employed.

 

[edwest2]

I don’t think taxes have anything to do with it. You didn’t hear about gay marriage years ago not because of the tax code, but because society was so different. Gay people were fighting to not be attacked by strangers and shunned by their families.

The biggest reasons I hear for gay marriage are health insurance, medical rights (being able to be there and take care of things when a partner is sick/dying), pension benefits, property rights upon the death of a partner, etc. All of those little things that help spouses protect each other during life’s hardest times.

Which can all be done through an attorney. Last year, the company that handles the only real money I have - my IRA - told me I’d better put down a beneficiary. So in about 5 minutes, over the phone, I put down a close male (straight) friend of mine. No signing of papers - no questions about sexual orientation. We had also decided that I should put his name on what few dollars I had at the bank. We produced a few pieces of ID, signed a few papers - no questions about sexual orientation.

I was ill last year, and he could have become my legal guardian with power of attorney. And had I not recovered to go back to work or it looked bad, I could have written up my own will, had it reviewed by an attorney and notarized. The end.

When he went to the emergency room with me, zero people asked about our sexual orientation. Nobody.

Peace,
Ed

 

[jilly4ski]

I’m getting married in a couple months and wow the tax benefits we are receiving are insane! (We had our employers run example checks.) Personally I think its a little ridiculous to have my marriage subsidized like that, especially to that extent. We really aren’t doing anything to warrant it, and nothing in our lives will really change.

There are several reasons the state gives marriage benefits is a) to encourage people to be married before they have kids, otherwise if you just have a kid benefit (which we have as well) does not encourage having kids within the marriage structure, if we only had the one, then we are encouraging having kids without encouraging first being married. b) To protect those in a marriage, so they are not left out in the cold if the marriage fails, (things like SS benefits after 10 years of marriage, preventing spouses from disinheriting each other in wills, same with minor children, etc). c) To help married couples care for and raise the next generation of citizens.

As far as taxes, marriage is subsidized for lower earners or for couples where one spouse stays home. But for high wage earner couples this is not the case, or even for couples with disparate wage earnings. The increases on deductions don’t double with marriage, instead they are less than double.
Here is a decent article about it.

 

[jilly4ski]

Because guess what, in our society you can’t live without it! Yes, gay people want to be able to put they one they love on their health insurance so that if something bad happens they can get treatment. Gay people want to leave their partners their pension benefits, because they worked as a team throughout life. They want ownership of their house to default to their partner, instead of to the bank or another relative. (Even if you will something to someone that you’re not married to your kids or other relatives can challenge that in court saying it was rightfully theirs.)

So yes, a lot of it comes down to money, but it’s hardly mercenary. If your husband is a good man he wants you to be protected in all of those financial ways as well.

I am sorry, but house transfer and other property transfers at death are easily taken care of. You either buy the house together, (It is called joint tenancy with right of survivorship, and can also be done on things like cars, and bank accounts, and this allows the property to transfer automatically), or you make a will. (really not that hard).
I don’t know if I have ever heard of a house defaulting to the bank, it would go to the state first, (I guess if it still had a underwater mortgage the state might just let the bank foreclose it).
The real lesson here, is if you don’t like the default rules (intestacy statutes) then make a will or plan accordingly.

It is easy to gain access to a person in the hospital, it is called a medical directive or a power of attorney.

Almost all of this stuff is achievable with the right planning. If you are really that committed, buy a house together and get both names put on the deed. Or make a will. The only things that aren’t a given are social security benefits. Even most pension benefits are given to any named beneficiary (people who get divorced often run into this problem as they forget to change the beneficiary and then the ex gets the pension, much to the ire of kids or new spouse.

Even regular couples should do this, you can’t assume the intestate laws or other default rules are going to be what you want to do. There are only a few things you can’t do and that is disinherit a spouse or a minor child. (Up to a certain amount). The reason these laws were enacted was to protect children/orphans and women who had been at home with the children or just because women couldn’t get jobs. This really isn’t the case with homosexual couples. (I would advise any homosexual couple to maintain separate back accounts where their paychecks go and potentially a joint, where they would transfer limited amounts of money for household expenses).

 

[Havard]

The joint filing break (separate from/in addition to claiming dependents) provides the incentive for couples to marry before they proceed to the baby-makin’. Because historically, things do work out better that way, for the parents, for the children, and for society at large.