Becoming a vengeful monster

[Havard]

I feel for you, Harvard. I also know how scary the idea of narrowing the pool is (my mother and best friend criticize me about it every time I open up to them about my frustrations). I hope it works out in the end, but this time of uncertainty makes it truly frightening. Hang in there.

Lol, thanks. I’m not too worried. The world is getting much more connected, so it is easier to meet people with shared interests and values. My best friend is an actor/teacher in California and he’s dating an actress/teacher with similar interests who lives in Dusseldorf!

 

[Havard]

It isn’t a cake walk for guys either. Try being rejected when you ask someone out. Rejection happens a lot more than acceptance. It also hurts a heck of a lot more than not being asked out at all. After being rejected it certainly can harden a guy’s heart and make him think women are wicked for rejecting his desire to love.

We do have it easier, in my experience. There’s more chaste women than men, and further, we’re usually the pursuers, except a lot of “nice guys” don’t do a good job at pursuing.

 

[bsroufek]

I’m pretty positive people come from a good place when they try to sell God as lovey dovey, but God is impassible. He may be someone’s best ally, he may will someone’s best,** but he doesn’t suffer nor weep**.

God weeps many tears in the OT. Jesus also wept.

 

[3DOCTORS]

It isn’t a cake walk for guys either. Try being rejected when you ask someone out. Rejection happens a lot more than acceptance. It also hurts a heck of a lot more than not being asked out at all. After being rejected it certainly can harden a guy’s heart and make him think women are wicked for rejecting his desire to love.

No, I know it isn’t. In an earlier post I said as much. It’s just hard for each in a different way, is probably the best way of putting it!

 

[heidi_storage]

I am a 25-year-old female who wants to remain chaste until marriage… which has resulted in me falling in love with people who will not accept chastity and they have broken it off, leaving me heart-broken and feeling worthless. Every time I date a nice Catholic boy, I find that our personalities are incompatible and it does not last long. I have suffered from depression because of my ill-luck in my love life, and this has made me struggle a lot in my relationship with God. I pray all of the time for a solution, for even an acceptance in my heart that my love life will not work out, but it does not get better.

I became friends with an agnostic guy a few months ago. As we got to be close friends, I discovered that he left a few former girlfriends for the same reasons my ex-boyfriends have left me: chastity and long-distance. I was deeply under the impression that he was not really serious about most of his relationships. I was shocked when, 9 months later, he confessed to me that he had a crush of me for the past 6 months. I was about to move back to my hometown (500 miles away), and I figured that the fact that he revealed this to me 2 weeks before I was about to leave would be so he could use me like he used his ex-girlfriends. I developed the cruel plan of playing the dating game and then cutting it off as soon as I moved back home. I played the game well, even got his friends to refer to me as his girlfriend. Yesterday, we were chatting online and I ripped into him, telling him that our 2 weeks dating was “just for fun” and “it was not really serious, so no one got hurt and we can go on with our lives”. I actually mimicked the words an ex-boyfriend used on me when he moved away and realized that I wanted the relationship to work out. Needless to say, it really upset him (apparently he was much more into me than I had originally thought) and I have been the first person to have broken his heart. I tried to apologize while maintaining that I was not actually interested in a relationship with him, but the damage was done.

The problem is, I don’t feel as bad as I should about this. Part of me is rejoicing that I got “vengeance” on someone who has his priorities in women all wrong. Maybe I was going to be the “exception” he needed, but I am secretly congratulating myself on the fact that I did not let “another man fool me” and “I got him before he got me”. I am concerned that my behavior and indifference is reflective of a deteriorating moral character; I am somehow proud of myself for causing another person pain when I am completely aware of how much that hurts to be let down like that. Part of me knows that I am testing God by saying “You would not send me the right person in the first place, so I am going to cause another one of your children pain!”

What should I do to adjust myself back into being a loving person, no matter what is done to me? I seem to not care about others at all, and that scares me. I have not dated in 1.5 years for a reason: I am still very angry at my last relationship. I desperately want to be fulfilled in my marriage vocation, but with the right person. Every time I believe God has sent me the right person, that person leaves me. I don’t want to date just to date anymore… I want a partner in life who can be by my side as we both try to build the kingdom of God… I just am losing hope and struggle with forgiveness every day. I am terrified that I will get hurt again, so I feel like I won’t feel worthless if I inflict the pain first.

Also, I am smart enough to realize that I killed my friendship beyond repair. I have tried to reach out to that guy to let him know that I am sorry for causing him pain… I feel like anyone deserves an apology at the very least. I am not asking for solutions to the friendship issues… I am only asking what I can do to stop this development into a vengeful monster. I feel too secure being the inflictor of pain, and that is not like me at all.

You know you did something wrong–both in playing with this guy, hurting him, and in being a poor witness for the Christian faith to an agnostic man. You sinned, you need to repent, and the next time you are tempted to do anything similar, ask God for the strength to withstand temptation. No sin will disqualify you from receiving forgiveness from the Lord, nor ever condemn you to be a “monster,” except the sin of steadfastly refusing to seek God’s mercy through his son’s blood. Remember that Paul approved the murder of an innocent man–thought it meritorious–but then had his heart changed through his encounter with Jesus.

I know how you feel about “am I ever going to meet the right guy,” but you CANNOT allow this desire to supersede your desire to love and serve the Lord; that is making an idol of relationships/marriage. I am not saying that it is wrong to try to find a life partner; I am so thankful that at the age of 29, I found a good, Godly man; but you cannot lose perspective or imagine that fulfillment comes through marriage.

If you are struggling with this issue, it really might be a good idea to talk to your priest.

 

[quiet52]

Dear OP,

I am presuming you have confessed your sin of vengeance and that you have resolved not to repeat it. Now you can work on forgiving yourself for violating one of your values (to love and respect others) and to grow from this. I think forgiving ourselves is part of the process of Reconciliation with God. Trust in Him to continue to help you to be whole in your service to Him.

We all need to remember that we are all sinners, but a particular sin does not define who we are. We are all children of God, and He wants to help us to become “new” persons in Him, every time we receive the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist.

Don’t get stuck in anxiety about “becoming” a “monster” – with hope and trust, constantly pray to our Lord, asking Him to help you to remain “new” in Him each day.

Thank God for giving you the fortitude to cherish and live the value of chastity!

P.S. Another thought. Maybe you can pray daily for the souls our young Catholic men, so many of whom have acquired the ways and attitudes of the world and are confused about or indifferent toward the call of Christ.

 

[Margarete_Faust]

Dear OP,

I am presuming you have confessed your sin of vengeance and that you have resolved not to repeat it. Now you can work on forgiving yourself for violating one of your values (to love and respect others) and to grow from this. I think forgiving ourselves is part of the process of Reconciliation with God. Trust in Him to continue to help you to be whole in your service to Him.

…

P.S. Another thought. Maybe you can pray daily for the souls our young Catholic men, so many of whom have acquired the ways and attitudes of the world and are confused about or indifferent toward the call of Christ.

I still have to confess, but will do so tomorrow morning. I will also pray for the young Catholic men. I also pray for the Swiss guard for the fact that they are young Catholic men who dedicate much of their youth to defend the faith, so I guess it only makes more sense.

Everyone has been (for the most part) very helpful! Thank you all!

 

[silentfactor80]

We do have it easier, in my experience. There’s more chaste women than men, and further, we’re usually the pursuers, except a lot of “nice guys” don’t do a good job at pursuing.

Think about that mathematically. Most men only have sex with women. Therefore the number of unchaste men is most likely close to the number of unchaste women. If that were not true you would have to have some women who do it with A LOT of men. Given what we know about the female sex drive that is not likely.

The problem is a lot of guys report having a million partners when they don’t. Consequently, many women report fewer sexual partners because its not well accepted for women to have many partners. Many studies have been done on this and the idea that there are more unchaste men has been debunked.

Look at #5 in the link below.
livescience.com/16900-busted-gender-myths-bedroom.html

 

[FriendlyFace]

Think about that mathematically. Most men only have sex with women. Therefore the number of unchaste men is most likely close to the number of unchaste women. If that were not true you would have to have some women who do it with A LOT of men. Given what we know about the female sex drive that is not likely.

Unfortunately there is such a thing as prostitution.

The problem is a lot of guys report having a million partners when they don’t. Consequently, many women report fewer sexual partners because its not well accepted for women to have many partners. Many studies have been done on this and the idea that there are more unchaste men has been debunked.

Look at #5 in the link below.
livescience.com/16900-busted-gender-myths-bedroom.html

I think the jury may still out on this. It seems like they often do studies improperly anyway. (abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117906&page=1#.UZgkDaKG2So)

 

[Jade_Tiger]

Unfortunately there is such a thing as prostitution.

I think the jury may still out on this. It seems like they often do studies improperly anyway. (abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117906&page=1#.UZgkDaKG2So)

Don’t get sf80 started. Please, don’t.

 

[silentfactor80]

Unfortunately there is such a thing as prostitution.

I think the jury may still out on this. It seems like they often do studies improperly anyway. (abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117906&page=1#.UZgkDaKG2So)

Yeah, there is a such thing as prostitution but there are also male prostitutes as well. Subsequently most guys do not go to prostitutes. I think most have the sense enough to realize prostitution is a huge STD risk. Again, hard to put an exact number to it because getting reliable data isn’t easy.

I think the bottom line though is these days finding chaste women or men isn’t easy. I think in a few more years women will catch up to and surpass men. Culturally speaking the media plays women real well. You are promised and told that your sexuality is power and that you can use it to get what you want. After making victims out of women for years society can now turn to a promise of power and many eat it up like a starved person at a buffet. Pleasure and power are opiates.
Jade Tiger:

Don’t get sf80 started. Please, don’t.

Seriously? That’s pretty immature of you. I’m sorry if hearing ideas outside your preconceived notion of life bothers you so much.

 

[Bezant]

We do have it easier, in my experience. There’s more chaste women than men, and further, we’re usually the pursuers, except a lot of “nice guys” don’t do a good job at pursuing.

Fair point. Women also have the added pressure of their biological clocks.

On the other hand, popular culture’s far more accepting of a celibate woman than a celibate man.

 

[S_A_M]

@Margarete Faust: have you try consulting your priest in your church? it’s the best thing to do, i guess…

 

[Forkfoot]

Seems like that’s how all human pain works, really. People are hurt by others, who pass that pain on to others, who pass that pain on to others, etc. Much of our inner pain is inflicted by our parents, and we pass it on to our children, so in that sense there’s actually like a kind of “heritage” we pass on with our pain. I think there’s also a lot of heritage involved in the holding of feminine pain inflicted by the masculine. There are deep-seated wounds from the mistreatment of women over the millennia that is only just barely beginning to come into the light and heal.

All we can do is say “the pain stops with me”. Take responsibility for it and find a way to come to inner peace without passing it on. Luckily the peace of Christ is abundant and accessible, and we’re all hear to support you.

 

[AllSeasons]

I haven’t had a chance to read through all the previous replies, but I’m sure the other posters have already given you a lot of good advice.

First I want to say that I understand where you’re coming from, as it’s never easy when it comes to dating. Even though I’m a guy, I can see that you’re going through a tough time. I think it’s good that you realize what you did is wrong, and that you’re willing to seek advice to change that behavior. That’s a great start.

There’re a few things that you need to address here. Some of that has to do with the current situation with the guy, but a lot of that has to do with yourself. Let’s start with the easy ones first. However, I do want to preface it by saying that since I’m not in your shoes, I can’t fully understand what you’re going through, so I apologize in advance if I offend you in any way.

First, I think you need to apologize to the guy. No matter what issues you’re working through or what you’ve experienced in the past, it doesn’t give you the right to inflict pain on others; it’s also not the Catholic thing to do. That said, whether he decides to forgive you is his choice. If he doesn’t forgive you, it is still your cross to carry. Pray for him, nonetheless, and hope that he will forgive you in the future.

Now, I’m no psychologist, but I think you need to deal with your own issues first, and ultimately only you can resolve those issues.

1. 
   *]First, the good news is that your problems are not unique, and many other practicing Catholic women have gone through or are going through that problem when it comes to dating. This means that many women before you have successfully dealt with this. Ask them for advice, understand the approaches they took, and see if you can adapt them to your situation.
   *]You seem to give your heart away too fast. You need to guard your heart when it comes to relationships and not give it away, until you’re certain the other person is worthy of it.
   *]Early in the relationship, be very upfront with the guy about your requirement to stay chaste before marriage. Someone who really loves you will wait for you. This will help you root out the wrong ones.
   *]Know what you’re looking for. You seem to go for the wrong types. Why is that? Find out more about yourself, and figure out what you’re really looking for in a potential mate.
   *]Take some time off from dating. I do not believe you’re in the right emotional state to pursue further romantic relationships at this point. You’d just end up hurting yourself and others. This may seem harsh, but from someone looking in from the outside, this is the recommendation I’d make.
   *]Most importantly, you need to keep in mind that you’re a beautiful child of God. He will always provide. I know this may sound trite, but it’s true. As I’ve said before, I think it’s great that you’re saving yourself for marriage. Please don’t let these obstacles get in the way. They’re only small roadblocks to finding the one He’s chosen for you.
   
   Lastly, you seem like a good person, and I’m sorry you’re going through this. You must think that you don’t deserve this pain, but these tribulations are perhaps His way of preparing you for the right one. Trust in Him. God bless you, and I will be sure to say a prayer for you.

 

[Margarete_Faust]

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses. Most of them have been helpful. I have to run out of town for a few days since I have a job interview in a much bigger city, so I will give all of these responses more time and attention when I get back on Wednesday.

Thank you, and God bless!

 

[AllSeasons]

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses. Most of them have been helpful. I have to run out of town for a few days since I have a job interview in a much bigger city, so I will give all of these responses more time and attention when I get back on Wednesday.

Thank you, and God bless!

Best of luck on your interview!

 

[Margarete_Faust]

I haven’t had a chance to read through all the previous replies, but I’m sure the other posters have already given you a lot of good advice.

First I want to say that I understand where you’re coming from, as it’s never easy when it comes to dating. Even though I’m a guy, I can see that you’re going through a tough time. I think it’s good that you realize what you did is wrong, and that you’re willing to seek advice to change that behavior. That’s a great start.

There’re a few things that you need to address here. Some of that has to do with the current situation with the guy, but a lot of that has to do with yourself. Let’s start with the easy ones first. However, I do want to preface it by saying that since I’m not in your shoes, I can’t fully understand what you’re going through, so I apologize in advance if I offend you in any way.

First, I think you need to apologize to the guy. No matter what issues you’re working through or what you’ve experienced in the past, it doesn’t give you the right to inflict pain on others; it’s also not the Catholic thing to do. That said, whether he decides to forgive you is his choice. If he doesn’t forgive you, it is still your cross to carry. Pray for him, nonetheless, and hope that he will forgive you in the future.

Now, I’m no psychologist, but I think you need to deal with your own issues first, and ultimately only you can resolve those issues.

1. 
   *]First, the good news is that your problems are not unique, and many other practicing Catholic women have gone through or are going through that problem when it comes to dating. This means that many women before you have successfully dealt with this. Ask them for advice, understand the approaches they took, and see if you can adapt them to your situation.
   *]You seem to give your heart away too fast. You need to guard your heart when it comes to relationships and not give it away, until you’re certain the other person is worthy of it.
   *]Early in the relationship, be very upfront with the guy about your requirement to stay chaste before marriage. Someone who really loves you will wait for you. This will help you root out the wrong ones.
   *]Know what you’re looking for. You seem to go for the wrong types. Why is that? Find out more about yourself, and figure out what you’re really looking for in a potential mate.
   *]Take some time off from dating. I do not believe you’re in the right emotional state to pursue further romantic relationships at this point. You’d just end up hurting yourself and others. This may seem harsh, but from someone looking in from the outside, this is the recommendation I’d make.
   *]Most importantly, you need to keep in mind that you’re a beautiful child of God. He will always provide. I know this may sound trite, but it’s true. As I’ve said before, I think it’s great that you’re saving yourself for marriage. Please don’t let these obstacles get in the way. They’re only small roadblocks to finding the one He’s chosen for you.
   
   Lastly, you seem like a good person, and I’m sorry you’re going through this. You must think that you don’t deserve this pain, but these tribulations are perhaps His way of preparing you for the right one. Trust in Him. God bless you, and I will be sure to say a prayer for you.

1. 
   Okay, well, first thing I did almost as soon as it happened is apologize to the guy. I totally acknowledge that he did not deserve what I did to him, no matter what his past or character is like. My responses from him since have been relatively mixed. He has been telling me that an apology does not always fix it, but has also been in touch much more than expected. I am just giving him as much space as I assume he needs.
   
   First, I used to give my heart away too fast, but that last time I did that was a little over 2 years ago. I have generally avoided pursuing serious relationships ever since because I knew that even though I want to be in a serious relationship, I am in a very bad place with myself and that will just drag down others with me (I mentioned this in a previous post “Need Advice about Messing Up”). I am frustrated that the healing process has not come as quickly and completely as it should (“should” is meant here to indicate that I have actually put a lot of time and attention into getting over the past, and I am still not very pleased with the results. There have been improvements that have been noticeable to both myself and others, especially the guy I just hurt, but it’s still not the end, and I really want it to be the end). I have been very deliberately taking a break at dating unless the guy is a Catholic who actually goes to church, and that is more or less because I want to give the good guys a chance. Unfortunately, I have not found my mate yet.
   
   I have been upfront with guys early in the relationship about where I stand on chastity. That does not work. Of course, the alternative does not work either. Telling the guy immediately seems to produce a lot of defensiveness on his part in which he assures me that the no sex thing will never be an issue, but then the moment he realizes that I will not succumb to temptation in a heated moment is when he decides to leave me. My own mother tells me that I should tell “a little white lie” to keep my relationships alive. I don’t follow that advice, but I am certainly getting pressure since my “fundamentalism” is apparently “unrealistic”. I wish I could just find the right one. I have been begging God, I mean, very pathetically begging God, to send me the right one. He sees my pain and won’t answer my prayers, not even with a desire to be a nun. I just don’t understand. I am trying to be faithful and patient, but God has given me a cross that I despise and never had the heart to carry in the first place. I am pushing forward, but I really do need someone by my side and relief from this doubt and the fear.

 

[bsf]

…First, I used to give my heart away too fast, but that last time I did that was a little over 2 years ago. I have generally avoided pursuing serious relationships ever since because I knew that even though I want to be in a serious relationship, I am in a very bad place with myself and that will just drag down others with me (I mentioned this in a previous post “Need Advice about Messing Up”). I am frustrated that the healing process has not come as quickly and completely as it should (“should” is meant here to indicate that I have actually put a lot of time and attention into getting over the past, and I am still not very pleased with the results. There have been improvements that have been noticeable to both myself and others, especially the guy I just hurt, but it’s still not the end, and I really want it to be the end). I have been very deliberately taking a break at dating unless the guy is a Catholic who actually goes to church, and that is more or less because I want to give the good guys a chance. Unfortunately, I have not found my mate yet.

I have been upfront with guys early in the relationship about where I stand on chastity. That does not work. Of course, the alternative does not work either. Telling the guy immediately seems to produce a lot of defensiveness on his part in which he assures me that the no sex thing will never be an issue, but then the moment he realizes that I will not succumb to temptation in a heated moment is when he decides to leave me. My own mother tells me that I should tell “a little white lie” to keep my relationships alive. I don’t follow that advice, but I am certainly getting pressure since my “fundamentalism” is apparently “unrealistic”. I wish I could just find the right one. I have been begging God, I mean, very pathetically begging God, to send me the right one. He sees my pain and won’t answer my prayers, not even with a desire to be a nun. I just don’t understand. I am trying to be faithful and patient, but God has given me a cross that I despise and never had the heart to carry in the first place. I am pushing forward, but I really do need someone by my side and relief from this doubt and the fear.

I will pray for you.

I am far, far from a relationship expert.

I do not think there is a universal timetable for healing, as related to “matters of the heart”. God’s will can be a bit obscure at times, and he is not going to bend His timetable to meet your expectations.

If being upfront about your requirement for chastity is causing guys to go elsewhere because they demand premarital, sexual relations, then your honesty seems to be WORKING. If being chaste is important to you, then NOT being in a relationship with guys who intend engaging in premarital, sexual relations with you should be acceptable to you. Right? Is that the type of guy you are seeking?

Yeh, white lies are lies. Do not listen to your mother on this one. She is wrong. I think you are doing the correct thing.

Jesus is always at your side. In the end, he is all you need, IMO.

I think if God wills you to be married, it will happen if you seek His will. Once again, though, on His timetable, not yours. Whether He wills it to happen in a year or fifty years, anything else will yield lesser results.

God is wise beyond our comprehension. God loves us with a love that makes most human love appear as hatred. God has a plan for each one of us. That plan is the optimum plan. It yields the greatest results. Any other plan is inferior.

 

[AllSeasons]

Okay, well, first thing I did almost as soon as it happened is apologize to the guy. I totally acknowledge that he did not deserve what I did to him, no matter what his past or character is like. My responses from him since have been relatively mixed. He has been telling me that an apology does not always fix it, but has also been in touch much more than expected. I am just giving him as much space as I assume he needs.

I think how you’d want to proceed depends on what your intentions are with this guy. Do you still wish to salvage the relationship? Or do you simply want to salvage the friendship? Or do you simply want him to forgive you? If it’s the latter, I think you need to take into account the possibility that he may still have feelings for you. If those feelings are not reciprocated, I don’t think further interactions are a good idea, as you may be giving him false hope. If you also still have feelings for him, then yes, give him space, and let him make the first step, since the ball is now in his court.

First, I used to give my heart away too fast, but that last time I did that was a little over 2 years ago. I have generally avoided pursuing serious relationships ever since because I knew that even though I want to be in a serious relationship, I am in a very bad place with myself and that will just drag down others with me (I mentioned this in a previous post “Need Advice about Messing Up”). I am frustrated that the healing process has not come as quickly and completely as it should (“should” is meant here to indicate that I have actually put a lot of time and attention into getting over the past, and I am still not very pleased with the results. There have been improvements that have been noticeable to both myself and others, especially the guy I just hurt, but it’s still not the end, and I really want it to be the end). I have been very deliberately taking a break at dating unless the guy is a Catholic who actually goes to church, and that is more or less because I want to give the good guys a chance. Unfortunately, I have not found my mate yet.

As you suggested, I did look up your previous post “Need Advice about Messing Up.” I’m very sorry to hear what you’ve been through and what you must be going through as a result of that. I’m no psychiatrist by any means, but I think you need to battle your inner demons first, which I see that you’ve been trying to do. Have you considered seeking the counsel of a priest or perhaps that of a trained professional? If you do not feel comfortable discussing such things publicly, please feel free to PM me. But keep in mind, though, that I’m not a trained professional in this field. In any case, I’ll be sure to say a prayer for you.

I have been upfront with guys early in the relationship about where I stand on chastity. That does not work. Of course, the alternative does not work either. Telling the guy immediately seems to produce a lot of defensiveness on his part in which he assures me that the no sex thing will never be an issue, but then the moment he realizes that I will not succumb to temptation in a heated moment is when he decides to leave me. My own mother tells me that I should tell “a little white lie” to keep my relationships alive. I don’t follow that advice, but I am certainly getting pressure since my “fundamentalism” is apparently “unrealistic”. I wish I could just find the right one. I have been begging God, I mean, very pathetically begging God, to send me the right one. He sees my pain and won’t answer my prayers, not even with a desire to be a nun. I just don’t understand. I am trying to be faithful and patient, but God has given me a cross that I despise and never had the heart to carry in the first place. I am pushing forward, but I really do need someone by my side and relief from this doubt and the fear.

I feel bad for saying this, but please do not listen to your mother on this - you should not lie. I can understand why your mother would suggest this, but I think you know why you should not take this advice. The last thing you want to do is to start off a relationship on a lie. If you’re getting pressure from others about your position, well, Jesus got a lot more pressure, including the crucifixion, but he never caved in. We as Christians live in a secular world, and we are often misunderstood, attacked, ridiculed, but Jesus already told us to expect those things and stand strong. And remember that your brothers and sisters in Christ will always support you, so you’re never alone.

Ultimately, I think it’s simply because you haven’t met the right one yet. Honestly, you’re still young, and you still have time. Don’t stress out over this, and let it happen naturally. First, focus on yourself; make sure that you’re in a good place. People are drawn to people who are happy in their lives. Yes, you’ve been given a big Cross to carry, but also realize that you’ve been blessed in many other things. Offer up your sufferings, focus on the positives in your life, and truly surrender yourself to Him.