Becoming bitter about fraternal correction

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well, here is the deal, my family seriously needs fraternal correction, many stuff they do are gravely wrong, just let me give you the tip of the iceberg, my brother refuses to not eating meat on fridays, he believes like if the commandments were something that we should understand and then apply them the way we believe. sometimes I just want to tell him and others that they were tought by God before, all he has to do is to follow them. but at the same time i believe that i could be pushing him away from religion, since i believe that many people really stays Catholic because they don’t understand what it really means. you know i fear that many people when you tell them, “by having sex with your girlfriend you are heading to Hell”, they will just say that Catholicism is then wrong and just leave, making God’s work harder on them.

So i want your advice, what should i do, just go and tell them that that thing they do is mortal sin, and explain them what it means, caring not for what they might do after, or what? honestly im doing this more by coercion (to avoid sin) than by charity, i dont know if this is what I should be working on instead, and how.
(prayers also appreciated)
 
As it says in Scripture, “we must remove the beam from our own eye before we go after the speck in our neighbor’s eye”. Work on becoming holy yourself first.
 
DMC12 said:
well, here is the deal, my family seriously needs fraternal correction, many stuff they do are gravely wrong, just let me give you the tip of the iceberg, my brother refuses to not eating meat on fridays, he believes like if the commandments were something that we should understand and then apply them the way we believe. sometimes I just want to tell him and others that they were tought by God before, all he has to do is to follow them. but at the same time i believe that i could be pushing him away from religion, since i believe that many people really stays Catholic because they don’t understand what it really means. you know i fear that many people when you tell them, “by having sex with your girlfriend you are heading to Hell”, they will just say that Catholicism is then wrong and just leave, making God’s work harder on them.

So i want your advice, what should i do, just go and tell them that that thing they do is mortal sin, and explain them what it means, caring not for what they might do after, or what? honestly im doing this more by coercion (to avoid sin) than by charity, i dont know if this is what I should be working on instead, and how.
(prayers also appreciated)
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If you are using that heavy-handed approach, it is no wonder you are getting resistance. It must all be done in love and with great tact. You don’t go around telling people they are going to hell, that will just make them angry and more rebellious. And once you have corrected someone in love, leave it alone and let God work. Don’t nag. And get used to the fact that more often than not your words will go unheeded, at least at first, until they are convicted by the Holy Spirit. If they choose to reject God, that is their business. Also, nothing like this should be done without prayer first.
 
Fraternal correction must always take place in a spirit of great compassion and love, for we correct in the name of One who loves unceasingly.

Let love of God and neighbour be your motivation and pray hard that the Holy Spirit inspire your thoughts and your words, and calm your bitterness and disappointment.
 
We can use logic to determine why a heavy-handed approach usually isn’t effective. The reason is this:

If a frank matter-of-fact statement was sufficient to make them obey, then they would already be obeying it. The exception would be if they were completely ignorant of it.

What this means is that the correction they require is not one of basic knowledge, in the way a teacher would correct a student of a technical error, but a correction of the heart, which ultimately only God can do: we can just be an instrument in different ways.

It is excellent that you have the character & courage to correct them at all. You are in a minority with this, but this needs to be fine-tuned with patience and a willingness to let the Holy Spirit do His work. Try recommending some books to them maybe? A lot of Catholic teaching looks like a religion for imbeciles on the surface; the wisdom of it only starts to shine when you dig into it deeper.
 
I always thought that prayer, fasting, almsgiving are the ways to holiness which leads us to Heaven. I heard a priest say that fasting should become a way of life, if only for one day a week. Some have abandoned God and made their own rules. Our rules will not get us to eternal life. The same priest said that we are living among many right now who will be condemned. We care for their souls, that they will not end up in hell. Persevere in prayer for them. Be an example. God will do the rest. Perhaps invite them to a group Rosary at your home and socialize afterwards. God sent Jesus to teach us the Commandments he gave to Moses, that we would understand and follow them.
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
As it says in Scripture, “we must remove the beam from our own eye before we go after the speck in our neighbor’s eye”. Work on becoming holy yourself first.
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Sorry, I just have to comment on this. Matthew 7:5 is not about only saying something if we are perfect ourselves. That (often misinterpreted) passage is about hypocrisy. in other words don’t call someone out for fornicating if you are also fornicating.

Too many people call out the above passage, but forget this from Ezekiel:
Ezekiel 33:7-9
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You, son of man—I have appointed you as a sentinel for the house of Israel; when you hear a word from my mouth, you must warn them for me. When I say to the wicked, “You wicked, you must die,” and you do not speak up to warn the wicked about their ways, they shall die in their sins, but I will hold you responsible for their blood. If, however, you warn the wicked to turn from their ways, but they do not, then they shall die in their sins, but you shall save your life.
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When we see someone venturing into sin we are commanded to warn them and if we do not then we too are responsible for their sins.

So yes, we should clean up our own act, but we are also obliged to offer fraternal correction. Once they have been warned we should let it go.
 
Although you don’t say it here, it sounds like you have talked (fought?) with your brother about this issue. If you have already made it clear that we must follow the doctrine of the Church, then let it go!

Often it’s harder to correct/be corrected by a family member. There is so much other baggage between us. Don’t risk your relationship, or your own soul, by letting bitterness enter in.

I know you are worried about your brother. That is understandable. Just remember that faith cannot be forced. He has free will.

Stay close to your brother and be the best example you can be of a good Catholic. You may be able to accomplish more by that than by any number of words that you could speak.

🙂
 
When should we admonish sinners?

Wwhen the following 3 conditions are met: 1. the sin is mortal; 2. we have authority or influence over the person; and 3. there is reason to believe our warning will not make him worse instead of better.

(loosely from the Baltimore Catechism No 3; 1885)
 
=DMC12;11888982]well, here is the deal, my family seriously needs fraternal correction, many stuff they do are gravely wrong, just let me give you the tip of the iceberg, my brother refuses to not eating meat on fridays, he believes like if the commandments were something that we should understand and then apply them the way we believe. sometimes I just want to tell him and others that they were tought by God before, all he has to do is to follow them. but at the same time i believe that i could be pushing him away from religion, since i believe that many people really stays
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So i want your advice, what should i do, just go and tell them that that thing they do is mortal sin, and explain them what it means, caring not for what they might do after, or what? honestly im doing this more by coercion (to avoid sin) than by charity, i dont know if this is what I should be working on instead, and how.
(prayers also appreciated)

You can do that, but that kind of technique rarely works these days in situations like this if what I interpret what you are saying is correct.

More reading:
newadvent.org/cathen/04394a.htm
Catholic because they don’t understand what it really means. you know i fear that many people when you tell them, “by having sex with your girlfriend you are heading to Hell”, they will just say that Catholicism is then wrong and just leave, making God’s work harder on them.
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As Catholics, we should never assume to know what a soul’s final destination is. You can say that having sex with your girlfriend is a grave matter and potentially a mortal sin if the three criteria are met, but going to hell, well, that’s just out of our league.
 
well, no i have not gone with a “you will go to Hell” approach, because i know that usually has bad results. what i meant is that sometimes i feel the urge to say so, because sometimes i feel angry, but at the same time i know that that is not something i must do while angry.

what I want is really some advice, how would you approach them, I fear that pointing their mistakes and the graveness, might scare them away from the Church, on the other hand I believe that i might be overthinking it, and i should just go and tell them. altough i have another doubt there, what to say, we live in a society where saying “because it is a sin” seems to not be enough in many cases, and often just makes you to look like a prude, who nobody wants to listen.

you know i fear that everything ends up failing and making them worst, which might be a good reason to not do the correction, but then i believe at least for their sake i should try to get them closer to God, but how?
 
DMC12 said:
when you tell them, “by having sex with your girlfriend you are heading to Hell”, they will just say that Catholicism is then wrong and just leave, making God’s work harder on them.
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What you say is true about sex outside of marriage heading people to Hell. You are not telling people that they *are *going to Hell you are merely telling them that this is the direction in which they are heading – and they honestly are heading in that direction, for fornication does not make one into a saint, but into a reprobate if anything. People have the natural law inscribed upon their hearts and should know sex outside of marriage is wrong and goes against the 6th Commandment. If you think that your brother is not yet ready for the truth, then just pray and make sacrifices for him to one day come to the truth, and be a good example to him until a good opportunity for touching his heart comes up. I wouldn’t rule out fraternally correcting him: I’d just wait for the right opportunity to. Pray to Mary for such an opportunity, and be as loving and gentle as possible with your brother when your opportunity arrives. Tell him that you love him and don’t want him to go to Hell for breaking the 6th Commandment. Tell him that the Blessed Virgin Mary says that most souls go to Hell because of the sin of impurity. Your brother should be able to see clearly that you are purely motivated by love and not by condemnation if you speak to him in a loving, solicitous manner. God bless you.
 
DMC12 said:
well, no i have not gone with a “you will go to Hell” approach, because i know that usually has bad results. what i meant is that sometimes i feel the urge to say so, because sometimes i feel angry, but at the same time i know that that is not something i must do while angry.

what I want is really some advice, how would you approach them, I fear that pointing their mistakes and the graveness, might scare them away from the Church, on the other hand I believe that i might be overthinking it, and i should just go and tell them. altough i have another doubt there, what to say, we live in a society where saying “because it is a sin” seems to not be enough in many cases, and often just makes you to look like a prude, who nobody wants to listen.

you know i fear that everything ends up failing and making them worst, which might be a good reason to not do the correction, but then i believe at least for their sake i should try to get them closer to God, but how?
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What I posted suggests 3 criteria for being in a position to fraternallly correct. It seems that your family does not meet the criteria for you to fraternally correct them.

Remember when Christ sent the Apostles out to the towns to teach the people? Christ said if the people in the twon were unwilling to listen, the Apostles should not only leave, bit shake the dust of that twon off their sandals.

For future reference, when you are in a position to fraternally correct, I would suggest something along the lines of: I am very concerned about the state of your soul and your eternal destination when I know you are doing X (or hearing you boast about… or knowing you are engaged in…). I am trying to get to Heaven, and I would like to see you there too, because i love you. What can I do to help you get away from this?

In the meantime, however, I think the best things you can do wrt your family is to 1) be the best Catholic you can be and this show them how happy and good following Christ can make a person; and 2) forging good strong relationships with your family members by talking and doing things with them. Laugh and have fun with them, so they see being a Catholic does not involve being grim all the time. Be a little better when you have just gone to Confession or Mass. Get a book about the 5 Love Languages (overllok the name–it’s a great concept) and show yoru love in each one’s “language.”
 
All you can do is pray for the people in your family and give them good example by living a good life. Your family members probably already know what their faith requires but choose not to do it.
 
*“You, son of man, I have appointed watchman for the house of Israel; when you hear me say anything, you shall warn them for me. If I tell the wicked man, that he shall surely die, and you do not speak to dissuade the wicked man from his way, he (the wicked man) shall die for his guilt, but I will hold you responsible for his death. But if you warn the wicked man, trying to turn him from his way, and he refuses to turn from his way, he shall die for his guilt, but you shall save yourself.” Ezekiel 33:7-9 *About the log in our own eye: You and I should first focus on doing something about our own sins before even thinking about how to broach the subject with our neighbors about their imperfections. But…provided that we are taking care of first things first, scripture reminds us that it is NOT Christian to utterly ignore the sins of others close to us, it is NOT Christian to merely shrug our shoulders and say, “Oh well, that’s his problem. Oh well, she’ll have to deal with that herself.”

Not too long ago, a stranger pointed out that the right front tire of my car was a bit flat. Because of the warning, I was able to stop and address the problem before I had a blowout. Needless to say, I was grateful to the kind person who was watching out for me. The tire was entirely my responsibility, so strictly speaking, the stranger had no obligation to go out of his way to warn me of possible peril. And yet, it’s clear that giving me that warning was the decent thing to do, the Christian thing to do. It would have been cold-hearted for the other person to have shrugged his shoulders and left me without a word of warning, perhaps thinking to himself, “Well, I’m glad my tires are fully inflated - I sure don’t need to worry about anyone else!”

If it’s the right thing to warn another about a partially deflated tire and potential blowout, then it’s also the right thing to warn another about a partially deflated moral character and potential spiritual blowout. This is, in fact, what love demands! But love first demands addressing our own moral deflation, the “planks” in our own eyes, as Jesus teaches everywhere in the Gospel.

And then, when the right time comes to give warnings to others, always doing that in a loving manner. As Jesus explains, “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you…If he refuses to listen to them, tell the Church…” Because without the timely warning God gives us through each other, through His Church, each one of us would soon end up with a tragic blowout that could and should have been prevented.
 
I’d like to say one more thing in addition to what I have said in my other post: Admonishing the sinner is a Spiritual Work of Mercy. If at any moment you think that the other person could be up to hearing what you have to say, then say it – just say it gently and lovingly. God bless you.
 
I would just like to mention what I see as a big danger. When you go to admonish or correct someone, there is a good chance that person will see it being all about YOU, not about him, and not about God. And the natural reaction, especially in a brotherly or any other kind of relationship in which rivalry is present, is to do the exact OPPOSITE of what you’re being told, if only out of spite.

I left the Church years ago because I was essentially scared of all of the rules. The more someone told me to follow them, the more I looked for reasons they were ridiculous, because I didn’t see how I could change my life to apply them. I am back now because I was blessed to have someone come into my life who showed me through give-and-take discussion AND THROUGH HER ACTIONS not only that I COULD, but also that it would be a good thing.

You can’t force beliefs on people. You CAN engage them in discussion on equal footing and listen to their perspectives. And you can demonstrate why it’s beneficial to someone to have this faith through your actions.

I forget who said it, but the quote “Who you are speaks so loudly I can barely hear what you are saying” resonates with me. Maybe you follow all of the rules, but what kind of person does that make you? A rule-follower, but what else? SHOW your brother, but take a look in the mirror first.
 
millstreet said:
I would just like to mention what I see as a big danger. When you go to admonish or correct someone, there is a good chance that person will see it being all about YOU, not about him, and not about God. And the natural reaction, especially in a brotherly or any other kind of relationship in which rivalry is present, is to do the exact OPPOSITE of what you’re being told, if only out of spite.

I left the Church years ago because I was essentially scared of all of the rules. The more someone told me to follow them, the more I looked for reasons they were ridiculous, because I didn’t see how I could change my life to apply them. I am back now because I was blessed to have someone come into my life who showed me through give-and-take discussion AND THROUGH HER ACTIONS not only that I COULD, but also that it would be a good thing.

You can’t force beliefs on people. You CAN engage them in discussion on equal footing and listen to their perspectives. And you can demonstrate why it’s beneficial to someone to have this faith through your actions.

I forget who said it, but the quote “Who you are speaks so loudly I can barely hear what you are saying” resonates with me. Maybe you follow all of the rules, but what kind of person does that make you? A rule-follower, but what else? SHOW your brother, but take a look in the mirror first.
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I don’t believe that any one of us here on this thread would fraternally correct somebody in the manner that you speak of, that is, without first being a good Catholic himself or in any wrong or premature way. If you know what true fraternal correction is, you know that it is not forcing people to do, say or believe something, and it is not correcting them prematurely – also, it is not telling them to do, say or believe something that one does not do, say or believe oneself. What you speak of in your post is something different from true fraternal correction – fraternal correction is a work of CHARITY and thus is good, and must only be done in the way intended by the Church, otherwise it is not true fraternal correction, but coercion, judgmental behavior, or some other bad behavior. God bless you.
 
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