Becoming chaste

[Aaron1988]

I have a few questions about becoming chaste the first is when you are in a relationship is it ok to kiss your girlfriend on the lips (not French kissing just a peck on the lips). The second is how to stop thinking impure thoughts about women (I don’t watch porn and generally avoid looking at women in the street unless I have to (if she is talking to you) but I want to not have to avoid looking at them (I originally stopped looking at women as I was in a relationship and to me looking at another woman is cheating which I HATE) but to avoid having impure thoughts about them and instead treat them with the dignity and respect they deserve. My last question is how can I hold myself accountable? (I’m new here and still finding out about catholic beliefs. Thanks for taking the time to read this -Aaron

(as I’m single I have started living a chaste life and plan to continue until I’m married)

 

[stayinthelight]

I’m not here to answer your questions. Hopefully someone else will give you some good answers.

I want to thank you for serving God. You seem like a good man.

 

[JRKH]

The rule is, as recorded in Scripture, that we are not to look at a woman “with lust”. so looking at a woman is fine. No problem.

There is an old adage - quite true - that says (even for married men) if they say the don’t look (notice) other women they are either lying or blind.
Looking at, even noticing a lovely woman does not equal lusting. Even the random thought does not equal lusting.

In order for something to be a sin there needs to be consent. Using women and lust as an example…
You walk down the street and see a pretty girl. You take note of her - the thought flashes through, “she’s pretty”… This is natural…no problem.
Then the thought flashes through - “Nice (body part(s))”…followed immediately by “quit thinking that”…Still no problem because you did not give consent to a random thought.

However…If we take that second thought and proceed differently…

The thought flashes through - “Nice (body part(s))”…followed immediately by “quit thinking that”…Followed by yea, but I’d sure like to…(lustful thoughts and possibly stopping to watch her longer…)
Now the random thoughts become sinful because you recognized it but, decided to take pleasure in them and encourage them.

As for kissing a girlfriend on the lips and such. The general rule is that the affections shown should stop when they begin to lead to arousal…

You can hold yourself accountable by self examination and simply resolving to do better, while also recognizing that you will fail from time to time. Growing in holiness is like dieting and exercise. It requires time and effort and consistency and a recognition that we all slip at times during the process.

Hope this helps a little.

Peace
James

 

[Aaron1988]

Hi James, its not that I don’t notice women it’s basicly that my exs ex cheated on her so I wanted to show her that there was no chance of me cheating on her and that I truly do hate cheating and wasn’t just saying it, so if for example a woman was walking down the street towards me I look at the floor, or if I’m a passenger in a car and we drive past a women I look in the opposite direction etc bearing in mind I was with her for three and a half years doing this every day it has become sort of a habit if that makes sense?

I also find that when I look at a woman who is wearing a low cut top my eyes are drawn to her chest, I know this is the point of wearing this kind of top but I still hate the fact that my eyes are drawn there although I am getting better at not looking (this is the reason I stopped looking at women in the first place but I started again after me and my ex broke up now I have stopped again because I hate that my eyes are drawn to something that should be private. -Aaron

 

[JRKH]

Hi James, its not that I don’t notice women it’s basicly that my exs ex cheated on her so I wanted to show her that there was no chance of me cheating on her and that I truly do hate cheating and wasn’t just saying it, so if for example a woman was walking down the street towards me I look at the floor, or if I’m a passenger in a car and we drive past a women I look in the opposite direction etc bearing in mind I was with her for three and a half years doing this every day it has become sort of a habit if that makes sense?

Yes I can understand this and I commend you for your sensitivity toward your lady in the matter. I had something similar when my dear lady and I got together. It wasn’t really with looking at other women because she knew my history and that I would be true to her. However, her previous husband (in addition to being a skirt chaser) was also a spendthrift and after getting out of that marriage, she had handled her own money for 25 years. When we got married, she had said that she wanted her own checking account to handle her own money…well we certainly did not need a separate account, but what good would it do for me to cause her discomfort over something so trivial and that she would come to recognize over time, so I immediately agreed and so long as she worked, she had her own account and we split the bills. But we worked together on all financial decisions (savings investing etc.)
Mutual trust and mutual honor…that’s the key

I also find that when I look at a woman who is wearing a low cut top my eyes are drawn to her chest, I know this is the point of wearing this kind of top but I still hate the fact that my eyes are drawn there although I am getting better at not looking (this is the reason I stopped looking at women in the first place but I started again after me and my ex broke up now I have stopped again because I hate that my eyes are drawn to something that should be private. -Aaron

Yes this is a common problem - one that I am not immune to either. It is good that we try to work on this but it is also important to remember that their is a difference between glancing at something presented right in front of us, and desiring to grab what is presented right in front of us…If you know what I mean. One is observation, the other is lust.

Peace
James

 

[Aaron1988]

I understand the difference but to me I still have the feeling that it is compleatly disrespectful to my (future) wife that I am even looking at another woman which is why I hate it when I see down a womans top even if its because she has bent down to pick something up or leaned over in front of me, I know I don’t want to look its just sometimes it happens when you least expect it so how can I make sure I don’t see/look when I don’t know that I’m going to see that?

 

[JRKH]

I understand the difference but to me I still have the feeling that it is completely disrespectful to my (future) wife that I am even looking at another woman which is why I hate it when I see down a woman’s top even if its because she has bent down to pick something up or leaned over in front of me, I know I don’t want to look its just sometimes it happens when you least expect it so how can I make sure I don’t see/look when I don’t know that I’m going to see that?

It is good to develop habits of right thinking and right action like avoiding or minimizing the glance at exposed cleavage. Just don’t become obsessed with not looking to the point where you feel that an unintended or absent minded glance is a grave sin.

In these matters it is possible to go too far and develop something called “Scrupulosity” where one sees grave sin and near occasion of sin where there is none. So it’s important that you recognize intent, accident, surprise etc as reasonable and legitimate happenings that do not involve lust, disrespect or sin of any type. So the idea is to "recognize what is sin, but not to go looking for it where none exists.

Peace
James

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I have a few questions about becoming chaste the first is when you are in a relationship is it ok to kiss your girlfriend on the lips (not French kissing just a peck on the lips). The second is how to stop thinking impure thoughts about women (I don’t watch porn and generally avoid looking at women in the street unless I have to (if she is talking to you) but I want to not have to avoid looking at them (I originally stopped looking at women as I was in a relationship and to me looking at another woman is cheating which I HATE) but to avoid having impure thoughts about them and instead treat them with the dignity and respect they deserve. My last question is how can I hold myself accountable? (I’m new here and still finding out about catholic beliefs. Thanks for taking the time to read this -Aaron

(as I’m single I have started living a chaste life and plan to continue until I’m married)

A peck on the lips is okay. You don’t have to stop looking at women, eye contact is fine.

Just remind yourself to cut it out when your mind starts to wander

I understand the difference but to me I still have the feeling that it is compleatly disrespectful to my (future) wife that I am even looking at another woman which is why I hate it when I see down a womans top even if its because she has bent down to pick something up or leaned over in front of me, I know I don’t want to look its just sometimes it happens when you least expect it so how can I make sure I don’t see/look when I don’t know that I’m going to see that?

When they bend down just avert your gaze

 

[Aaron1988]

I don’t really see it as a sin (although I’m still learning on what constitutes as a sin) after all its not like I’m going out of my way to see a womans clevage it just feels kind of like adultry as she is not my wife and I am seeing intimate parts of her if that makes sense? I know its not a sin it just feels a bit wrong seeing another persons body (who I’m not married to) -Aaron

 

[JRKH]

I don’t really see it as a sin (although I’m still learning on what constitutes as a sin) after all its not like I’m going out of my way to see a womans clevage it just feels kind of like adultry as she is not my wife and I am seeing intimate parts of her if that makes sense? I know its not a sin it just feels a bit wrong seeing another persons body (who I’m not married to) -Aaron

Thanks for the clarification.

I think that the reason you feel it is wrong, that is it makes you uncomfortable, is that it is what we might call a “near occasion of sin”. In other words, what is seen is not, in and of itself, a sin of lust (for example) but there is a natural and logical thought process that can occur that would be a sin if we allowed ourselves to follow it.
So our conscience makes us aware of the “danger” so that we don’t follow the wrong path.

Peace
James

 

[Aaron1988]

what you have said is true. I think the reason I’m so uncomfortable about it at the moment is as I have now decided to wait to become chaste until I’m married its like I have been given this amazing second chance and to be able to make my (future) marriage extreamly special I just feel so scared that I’m going to mess it up that I just want to avoid anything that could make me revert back to the way I was if that makes sense.

Is it true that it is harder for people that have had premarital sex (and masterbation) find it harder to stop/become chaste? If so is there anything I can do to make it easier? Is it really hard to avoid sexual temptation (sex/masterbation) if you are not being pressured to do it and realise it is wrong? -Aaron

 

[JRKH]

what you have said is true. I think the reason I’m so uncomfortable about it at the moment is as I have now decided to wait to become chaste until I’m married its like I have been given this amazing second chance and to be able to make my (future) marriage extreamly special I just feel so scared that I’m going to mess it up that I just want to avoid anything that could make me revert back to the way I was if that makes sense.

Is it true that it is harder for people that have had premarital sex (and masterbation) find it harder to stop/become chaste? If so is there anything I can do to make it easier? Is it really hard to avoid sexual temptation (sex/masterbation) if you are not being pressured to do it and realise it is wrong? -Aaron

I can’t speak for the majority, but going with my own experience, and my “gut feeling”, avoiding premarital sex is going to be easier than masturbation simply because of the opportunity factor.
That said, if you work on breaking the masturbation habit, it will strengthen you on the other.

Things that might help…Well as far as dating might go, just keep things at “arms length” and casual until you recognize that this is the person you really wish to “court”. Then you can begin talking together about exploring the idea of marriage and parameters during courtship.
Overcoming masturbation is trickier. In my case I used a prayer and a visual aid. When tempted, I prayed, “Father take me to the foot of the cross” and visualized the bottom section of the cross from Jesus’ dirty, blood and sweat stained feet, down the dark rough hewn wood to where it entered the ground moist with the sweat and the blood. The thought of my sin putting Jesus there was sufficient to drive the temptation out of my head.
I’ll admit that for a time I did not always have the strength to pray that prayer and go to the cross, but more and more I did and now, praise God, I have broken the habit.

Peace
James

 

[Aaron1988]

How do you know someone is the one that god means for you to be with is it just that they are basicly everything you have dreamed of your future wife being?
Also I was sent this link reapteam.org/if-not-sex-what-can-I-do which to me seems to be very helpful but the problem I have is because I have only ever dated people who want sex before marriage things have always moved pretty quickly to the point of French kissing on the first date being normal (I think I should mention here I have only dated/made out with/slept with 2 women, but was kissed by 1 other when I was alot younger) which was kind of to fast for me but I felt I had to just to be “normal” and that I had to do this to be in a relationship so my question is how slow should we be taking things (not that I want to rush, its just that as I have only experienced relationships that move quickly I am having trouble working this out although I would love to have a relationship that is moral, catholic, loving, compassionate filled with kindness I just don’t really know how if that makes sense?)

My next question is, as I have told you I still live with my ex due to wanting to make sure she will be able to financially support herself and her son from a previous relationship. My question is I sleep in just a pair of shorts (I sleep downstairs and NOT in the same bed as her) but no top is it wrong for her to see me without a top on I’m pretty sure this isn’t a sin and would be surprised if it was, it is more a moral question.

I have not yet been tempted by masterbation to the point that I am struggling with it so at the moment I can just ignore that my body is trying to make me think I need to do it but I’m sure as time goes on I will need to pray to give me the strenth to not do it but (at the moment at least) I am determined to never do it again (lets see how long I can resist temptation before I’m struggling!) -Aaron

 

[JRKH]

Now you begin to ask questions that I’m not sure that I can help you with. I don’t think my personal experiences would be of much help here either.
That said, I’ll try to offer a bit of guidance for what it’s worth.

How do you know someone is the one that god means for you to be with is it just that they are basicly everything you have dreamed of your future wife being?

You are asking a question that really has no “canned” answer. Your current and past relationships may offer you insights into things that you would like to repeat and things you would like to avoid, and future dating might provide additional insights.
Additionally, you need to sit and pray and think about who you are, and what seek in a spouse. To an extent I think you have already done this and have a pretty good idea.
Then I would suggest you pray to God for guidance and that, once you are out of your current situation, that he guide you to the person He has prepared fro you.

Also I was sent this link reapteam.org/if-not-sex-what-can-I-do which to me seems to be very helpful

Yes I think that is a very nice site. I also noticed in glancing around that there are different articles and under the heading “About REAP” is a contact tab. You might be able to ask them some questions and who knows - maybe they could hook you up with a similar org in your area…Might be worth a shot.

but the problem I have is because I have only ever dated people who want sex before marriage things have always moved pretty quickly to the point of French kissing on the first date being normal (I think I should mention here I have only dated/made out with/slept with 2 women, but was kissed by 1 other when I was alot younger) which was kind of to fast for me but I felt I had to just to be “normal” and that I had to do this to be in a relationship so my question is how slow should we be taking things (not that I want to rush, its just that as I have only experienced relationships that move quickly I am having trouble working this out although I would love to have a relationship that is moral, catholic, loving, compassionate filled with kindness I just don’t really know how if that makes sense?)

Of course it makes sense - and I think many people can sympathize with you on this.
This gets to be a real problem these days. If I may use a fishing analogy, the bottom line is that you simply can’t go fishing in the same “spots” as before. You need a new fishing hole…
Local churches might have youth and young adult singles groups that you could check out.
You might also take a look at an on-line service like “Catholicsingles.com”.
at least in these ways you can be assure that you will be meeting with people who won’t look at you like you have two heads when you express your beliefs.

My next question is, as I have told you I still live with my ex due to wanting to make sure she will be able to financially support herself and her son from a previous relationship. My question is I sleep in just a pair of shorts (I sleep downstairs and NOT in the same bed as her) but no top is it wrong for her to see me without a top on I’m pretty sure this isn’t a sin and would be surprised if it was, it is more a moral question.

No - I don’t think this is a problem.

I have not yet been tempted by masturbation to the point that I am struggling with it so at the moment I can just ignore that my body is trying to make me think I need to do it but I’m sure as time goes on I will need to pray to give me the strenth to not do it but (at the moment at least) I am determined to never do it again (lets see how long I can resist temptation before I’m struggling!) -Aaron

This is great. Much easier to prevent a habit than to break one…

Peace
James

 

[Aaron1988]

Thanks for the advice I will contact REAP and see if they know of any organisations in my area but I think they are based in the USA so I don’t know how much help they will be able to give in finding a local organisation in my area as I am English.

I think I might join catholicsingles.com but just to find friends to talk to online (again I think this site maybe USA based) and people my age so I can see that it is possible to live a moral catholic life at my age. In my experience all people who go to church are alot older than me or have no morals, although I know this is not true it is what it seems like as also in England being a Christian is see as “not cool” not that I care what others think but I think this puts alot of people off and if you don’t belive in sex before marriage or you have any sort of morals or dont drink/get drunk every weekend you are see as a “freak” or a “weirdo” at least at my age (in my experience) and I think we also have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in europe, if not the world, so that kind of shows how prevailent premarital sex is over here. So it seems like temptation is everywhere.

When I was talking about masterbation I didn’t mean I wasn’t a habit before I found this site just since finding it I just think that I’m saving it for my future wife so I mustn’t do it although today I was home alone and it was really tempting so I just went out for a long walk (don’t I make it sound simple … So far! But I know it will get harder as time goes on) -Aaron

 

[JRKH]

Thanks for the advice I will contact REAP and see if they know of any organisations in my area but I think they are based in the USA so I don’t know how much help they will be able to give in finding a local organisation in my area as I am English.

You may be right, but then it’s probably worth a shot. And Like I said earlier, it would be a really good idea to check with your local parish and see if they have anything going for young people.

I think I might join catholicsingles.com but just to find friends to talk to online (again I think this site maybe USA based) and people my age so I can see that it is possible to live a moral catholic life at my age.

Well I noted that on the sign-up section it asks for your location (UK in your case) so I suppose that you can search more locally. It’s certainly worth looking at for the friendships, contact and support.

In my experience all people who go to church are alot older than me or have no morals, although I know this is not true it is what it seems like

Just show how much you are needed

as also in England being a Christian is see as “not cool” not that I care what others think but I think this puts alot of people off and if you don’t belive in sex before marriage or you have any sort of morals or dont drink/get drunk every weekend you are see as a “freak” or a “weirdo” at least at my age (in my experience) and I think we also have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in europe, if not the world, so that kind of shows how prevailent premarital sex is over here. So it seems like temptation is everywhere.

Yes - I’m afraid that it’s not much (any) better in the US, at least in the population centers. No doubt it will be difficult for you, but then again, once you start really looking, you may find some “underground” pockets of chastity and virtue that you never saw before…OR…I could be that God is calling you because he wants you to help him start or further the building of such a thing…

Peace
James

 

[Aaron1988]

I haven’t actually looked at catholic singles yet but thank you for letting me know.

The reason I think there are more Christians in the USA is because of all the family films every character (family films) seem to be in a Christian marriage if that makes sense and also I read on a website (although I was out of date) that in the year 2000 there were 152 million approx. Christians in the USA (of which 24% were catholics 51% Protestant) and in 2004 they estimated that there would be 200 million approx. Christians in the USA if so 24% were catholics there would be approx 48 million Catholics in the USA in 2004 which would be approx. 2 out of 3 people in the UK (which to me seems loads but obviously the USA is a much bigger country than the UK so it would be less in the USA.
Also you have the “bible belt” which to me says that there is an area of the USA that is predominantly Christian if that makes sense obviously I don’t presume to know about some where I have never visited but this is just how it seemed to me.

It has always seemed to me the harder I look for good moral people my age the less I find I understand that nobody is perfect and I don’t presume to be perfect either as I am far from perfect. I feel as though by deciding to become chaste and live a moral catholic life I am isolation myself from people my age but hopefully that website, catholic singles, will help me find the hidden good and moral people. -Aaron