Becoming Gods....

[Chelsea111]

I live in Utah, and almost everyone I know is LDS. One of the biggest differences we can’t agree on the nature of God. They always say something along the lines of “what kind, loving God wouldn’t want His children to become like Him? What then is the purpose of life?” And no matter what I say about living for God, in His grace, etc., they always come back with something like “why would God have children for the sole purpose of worshiping him? That sounds selfish to me.” I can never put words to my perception of Him. The funny part of it is that I always think to myself, “man, they’re missing out on the entire idea of God by making Him and heaven so… human,” and they tell me “Catholic heaven is boring and you’re selling yourself short to refuse to believe that you are divine.”

Help?

 

[FCEGM]

Hi, Chelsea; welcome to CAF.

These posts from an earlier thread might be helpful:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2528778&postcount=16

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2523346&postcount=4

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2523348&postcount=5

 

[Cruxis117]

I live in Utah, and almost everyone I know is LDS. One of the biggest differences we can’t agree on the nature of God. They always say something along the lines of “what kind, loving God wouldn’t want His children to become like Him? What then is the purpose of life?” And no matter what I say about living for God, in His grace, etc., they always come back with something like “why would God have children for the sole purpose of worshiping him? That sounds selfish to me.” I can never put words to my perception of Him. The funny part of it is that I always think to myself, “man, they’re missing out on the entire idea of God by making Him and heaven so… human,” and they tell me “Catholic heaven is boring and you’re selling yourself short to refuse to believe that you are divine.”

Help?

Well, the first thing that they have to realize, is that we are God’s creation. That instantly puts us lower than God. The next level, though, is that God does want us to share in divine nature, but rather than becoming actual Gods ourselves, we would become partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4), where we live in a relationship with God. That’s the difference. To my mind, it makes them sound like they want to be equal to God. And last time I checked, when the Scriptures talked about someone trying to be like God, it didn’t turn out so well (Genesis 3:5-24). What I would tell them, is that God created us because he wants us to love him, as he loves us. He wants to bring us into his Family.

They make it sound like worship is merely saying a bunch of good things about God every Sunday. Rather, explain to them how worship is actually our way of communicating with God, of entering into a relationship with the one who made us. Most importantly, explain to them how in the LDS faith, not everyone becomes a God. It’s only for those who reach Exaltation. Ultimately, God loves us and wants us to join into a relationship of love with him, not to make us into our own Gods.

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Hello Chelsea

They always say something along the lines of “what kind, loving God wouldn’t want His children to become like Him? What then is the purpose of life?”

Ask them, what loving God wouldn’t want to share his divine nature with his creatures? Why would I want to be outside of Him when it is Him I sought to be with forever.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

Partaking in God’s nature, being in Him forever, is the completion of desire. Thus is why The Church says, we are the Body of Christ.

And no matter what I say about living for God, in His grace, etc., they always come back with something like “why would God have children for the sole purpose of worshiping him? That sounds selfish to me.”

“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”

I can never put words to my perception of Him. The funny part of it is that I always think to myself, “man, they’re missing out on the entire idea of God by making Him and heaven so… human,” and they tell me “Catholic heaven is boring and you’re selling yourself short to refuse to believe that you are divine.”

Help?

Residing in God and with Him for etenity is… boring? That’s very depressing to hear that from someone. “you’re selling yourself short to refuse to believe that you are divine” sounds very similiar to what Satan said to Eve in Gen 3:4-5, very dangerous talk.

Tell them whenever this comes up again “I’ll pray the Rosary for you,” sure to get them going

 

[Knittycat]

I must admit, as a former mormon this one trips me up regularly. I pray about it regularly.

 

[ConstantinePX]

My sister recently married a Persian man, his dad was either Muslim or Zoroastrian and his mom was LDS. He lived with his mom all of his life so naturally he was raised in the LDS church.

He is not a hardcore LDS’er and doesnt really go to Church. But God shine on him, he is the most caring, helpful person I have ever met. Of all people in my life who have ever defended/encouraged my discernment of Priesthood in the Church (Even more then my own Priest which is too busy to be too concerned), it has been him.

tl;dr: Mormons are good people and I think we Catholics can learn a thing or two from their lifestyles and family values. Their theology may be a bit shady. But I still admire their morality and humility.

:twocents:

 

[ConstantinePX]

More on topic.

I sometimes point to the Old Testament, where the more ironfisted, wrathful God is displayed as YHWH was in Judiac tradition… and show plenty of examples where God clearly demonstrates: ‘I am who I am, and you are pathetic mortals, little more then microscopic particules working in harmony to house a soul, and I can end you should I ever feel like it. Therefore, obey, and you will be loved and rewarded, betray, and your generations suffer my wrath.’

I think this clearly shows that Elohim most high Lord gracious God of peace is HE who HE is, not HE who is amongst equals and many.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Judaism preserved monotheism. Catholicism, which is the fulfillment of Judaism, is monotheistic. Mormonism is polytheistic – it teaches the existence of many Gods. It is not Christian in any sense of the word. The belief in ‘exaltation’ - that all Mormon males are eligible to become Gods and rule over their own kingdoms, and have endless spirit children with their goddess (plural) wives, was invented by Joseph Smith. To become ‘exalted’ one must obey certain rules, like giving 10% of one’s gross income to the LDS Church. Mormon women can become goddesses only if their husbands are ‘exalted.’ Otherwise, they are downgraded, don’t become Gods and goddesses and go to a lower heaven.

The idea of becoming a God is very appealing. It’s what got Adam and Eve kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Genesis 3:5.

In the beginning, a “Council of the Gods” got together . . . :whacky:

 

[Jim_Dandy]

My sister recently married a Persian man, his dad was either Muslim or Zoroastrian and his mom was LDS. He lived with his mom all of his life so naturally he was raised in the LDS church.

He is not a hardcore LDS’er and doesnt really go to Church. But God shine on him, he is the most caring, helpful person I have ever met. Of all people in my life who have ever defended/encouraged my discernment of Priesthood in the Church (Even more then my own Priest which is too busy to be too concerned), it has been him.

tl;dr: Mormons are good people and I think we Catholics can learn a thing or two from their lifestyles and family values. Their theology may be a bit shady. But I still admire their morality and humility.

:twocents:

How old are you? What is your level of education? Are you a natural born Catholic or a convert? If a convert, how long have you been a Catholic? Call the vocations director of the diocese if you are interested in the priesthood. (Don’t answer me, it’s none of my business, but these are among the first questions the vocations director will ask.)

Mormons are polytheists. Thanks anyway.

 

[ConstantinePX]

How old are you? What is your level of education? Are you a natural born Catholic or a convert? If a convert, how long have you been a Catholic? Call the vocations director of the diocese if you are interested in the priesthood. (Don’t answer me, it’s none of my business, but these are among the first questions the vocations director will ask.)

Mormons are polytheists. Thanks anyway.

Trust me, ive been in the process for nearly a year. With all the sex scandals that happened, they treat priesthood applicants like CIA applicants, at least, in my diocese. So I just have to bare with it and wait until they let me go to Seminary.

In my 20s. I have some college experience.

 

[Chelsea111]

Judaism preserved monotheism. Catholicism, which is the fulfillment of Judaism, is monotheistic. Mormonism is polytheistic – it teaches the existence of many Gods. It is not Christian in any sense of the word.

I agree with you completely. However, if you bring this up, any Mormon will tell you that they are monotheistic. They will tell you that they only worship one God–even if there happen to be an infinite number of gods ruling their own worlds. So, I brought up the Ten Commandments–and had my mind blown when I realized that the first commandment never explicitly says “there is only one God” like I’d memorized from CCD in fifth grade. Does anyone have any Bible references that clearly and obviously (meaning not open for interpretation) state the existence of one God?

Thanks for all the replies. And ConstantinePX, believe me–I love LDS people. They inspire me to be better all the time.

 

[fred_conty]

I live in Utah, and almost everyone I know is LDS. One of the biggest differences we can’t agree on the nature of God. They always say something along the lines of “what kind, loving God wouldn’t want His children to become like Him? What then is the purpose of life?” And no matter what I say about living for God, in His grace, etc., they always come back with something like “why would God have children for the sole purpose of worshiping him? That sounds selfish to me.” I can never put words to my perception of Him. The funny part of it is that I always think to myself, “man, they’re missing out on the entire idea of God by making Him and heaven so… human,” and they tell me “Catholic heaven is boring and you’re selling yourself short to refuse to believe that you are divine.”

Help?

Hi,
We are like Him, He made man to his own image and likeness. Gen. 1,27 But we are not Him because there can only be one Supreme God who is the prime mover of all, above whom there is no greater. If there were a greater, then that would be God. God is singlular by nature and necessity. But we are made to his image and likeness, and we christians are called his adopted children tho do not have his nature. “Our Father in heaven…” Mat. 6,9

There is no happiness greater than God’s. He IS happiness. We as christians will share in this greatest happiness of which there can be no greater. He have it. There is nothing more to be had besides this. The oneness with God wrapped up in his love forever and ever that no expierence on earth could ever hope to define. St. Paul, “…the things that no eye has seen and no ear has heard, things beyond the mind of man, all that God has prepared for those who love him.” I Cor.2,9.

 

[Paxvobis]

“Catholic heaven is boring and you’re selling yourself short to refuse to believe that you are divine.”

I think a little dose of humility is in order…

 

[fred_conty]

“For there is only one God, and there is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus, …” I Tim 2,5

 

[CEM5]

Well, the first thing that they have to realize, is that we are God’s creation. That instantly puts us lower than God. The next level, though, is that God does want us to share in divine nature, but rather than becoming actual Gods ourselves, we would become partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4), where we live in a relationship with God. That’s the difference. To my mind, it makes them sound like they want to be equal to God. And last time I checked, when the Scriptures talked about someone trying to be like God, it didn’t turn out so well (Genesis 3:5-24). What I would tell them, is that God created us because he wants us to love him, as he loves us. He wants to bring us into his Family.

They make it sound like worship is merely saying a bunch of good things about God every Sunday. Rather, explain to them how worship is actually our way of communicating with God, of entering into a relationship with the one who made us. Most importantly, explain to them how in the LDS faith, not everyone becomes a God. It’s only for those who reach Exaltation. Ultimately, God loves us and wants us to join into a relationship of love with him, not to make us into our own Gods.

Hi Cruxis,

Very well said!

blessings,
CEM

 

[Cruxis117]

I agree with you completely. However, if you bring this up, any Mormon will tell you that they are monotheistic. They will tell you that they only worship one God–even if there happen to be an infinite number of gods ruling their own worlds. So, I brought up the Ten Commandments–and had my mind blown when I realized that the first commandment never explicitly says “there is only one God” like I’d memorized from CCD in fifth grade. Does anyone have any Bible references that clearly and obviously (meaning not open for interpretation) state the existence of one God?

Thanks for all the replies. And ConstantinePX, believe me–I love LDS people. They inspire me to be better all the time.

This article helps.

catholic.com/library/Divinity_of_Christ.asp

Specifically, this passage:

Also significant are passages that apply the title “the First and the Last” to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: “Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’” (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).

This verse clearly states that there is, besides the One God, no other Gods. And again:

Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

This clearly shows that there are no Gods before God, and there will be no Gods after God. There will always be one God. These two verses alone would prove this. Now, if we turn to the Mormon Scriptures, such as the BoM, we find mentions of the belief of one God, and none afterwards. Here’s the Catholic Answers article:

catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9207fea2.asp

The specific verses are:

Alma 11: 26-30, 32-33, 35, 38-39, 44,

I would suggest reading the article, It provides a lot of great information. Also, unless you have a BoM on you, check out this link. It has the entire BoM, which you can go through to see these verses yourself.

lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng

 

[Cruxis117]

Hi Cruxis,

Very well said!

blessings,
CEM

Thank you!

 

[Jmd96]

I live in Utah, and almost everyone I know is LDS. One of the biggest differences we can’t agree on the nature of God. They always say something along the lines of “what kind, loving God wouldn’t want His children to become like Him? What then is the purpose of life?” And no matter what I say about living for God, in His grace, etc., they always come back with something like “why would God have children for the sole purpose of worshiping him? That sounds selfish to me.” I can never put words to my perception of Him. The funny part of it is that I always think to myself, “man, they’re missing out on the entire idea of God by making Him and heaven so… human,” and they tell me “Catholic heaven is boring and you’re selling yourself short to refuse to believe that you are divine.”

Help?

Besides the obvious conflict with Christian monotheism, this idea doesn’t jibe with me because it is so against one of the central, if not the central idea of Christianity, humility.

“You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
(St. Matthew 20:25-28)

We are not called to be gods, but servants of the servants of God. For the world it is a paradox, but for us it is one of God’s most beautiful truths.

 

[FCEGM]

Chelsea, here is another article from the files of THIS ROCK that may prove helpful in your discussions:

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9712fea2.asp

 

[Chelsea111]

Wow… thank you so much. If I’d read these articles a few years ago, I would have been saved a lot of pointless conversation and frustration. God bless you.