Becoming Saved?

[Robert_in_SD]

ONLYONECHRIST:

The only way to become saved in my opinion is TRUELY accepting Jesus into your heart. Admitting you are a sinner and believing Jesus was the son of God and was sent to earth to cleanse us from our sins. It is a complete turn from sin. I also believe that once you are saved you are always saved. And last I believe Baptism is important to salvation, but I defentaley do not believe it saves you or you have to be baptized to go to heaven.

I was wondering your guys thoughts.

So the requirements are: (1) admit I am a sinner; (2) believe Jesus Christ - the Son of God - died for my sins; and (3) accept Jesus into my heart.

I do this every week at Mass.

(1) As a Catholic I admit not only that I am a sinner, but specifically confess - every Sunday at mass - that I have “sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do.” And I ask Mary, the angels, the saints in Heaven, and all my brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for me to the Lord our God. It is a sincere turning from sin.

(2) Every Sunday at Mass when I make my public profession of faith I declare my belief that Jesus Christ is the only Son of God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. I profess and declare that I believe He was born of the Virgin Mary, and for MY sake He was crucified, died, was buried, and rose from the dead.

(3) Every Sunday when I receive the Eucharist I reaffirm my belief in Christ and not only do I invite Christ into my heart in a metaphorical sense, but I receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity - the REAL PRESENCE of Christ the Son of God - into my actual body in a real, tangible, physical and sustaining way. NOW THAT’s receiving Christ!

I guess I am “saved” like you. But unlike you I do not hold to the reformed and manmade belief that my salvation is assured - as that is the sin of presumption. I believe that I have a moral assurance of salvation if - like St. Paul - I continue to work out my salvation in fear and trembling. Phil 2:12-13.

Baptism with water (which imparts the Holy Spirit to the recipient) is the “normative” way of obtaining initial justification - i.e. “saving grace” Baptism for Catholics includes both water and the Holy Spirit. It is not an “either/or” proposition.

Peace and Charity,

 

[SusanL]

Robert in SD:

So the requirements are: (1) admit I am a sinner; (2) believe Jesus Christ - the Son of God - died for my sins; and (3) accept Jesus into my heart.

I do this every week at Mass.

(1) As a Catholic I admit not only that I am a sinner, but specifically confess - every Sunday at mass - that I have “sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do.” And I ask Mary, the angels, the saints in Heaven, and all my brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for me to the Lord our God. It is a sincere turning from sin.

(2) Every Sunday at Mass when I make my public profession of faith I declare my belief that Jesus Christ is the only Son of God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. I profess and declare that I believe He was born of the Virgin Mary, and for MY sake He was crucified, died, was buried, and rose from the dead.

(3) Every Sunday when I receive the Eucharist I reaffirm my belief in Christ and not only do I invite Christ into my heart in a metaphorical sense, but I receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity - the REAL PRESENCE of Christ the Son of God - into my actual body in a real, tangible, physical and sustaining way. NOW THAT’s receiving Christ!

I guess I am “saved” like you. But unlike you I do not hold to the reformed and manmade belief that my salvation is assured - as that is the sin of presumption. I believe that I have a moral assurance of salvation if - like St. Paul - I continue to work out my salvation in fear and trembling. Phil 2:12-13.

Baptism with water (which imparts the Holy Spirit to the recipient) is the “normative” way of obtaining initial justification - i.e. “saving grace” Baptism for Catholics includes both water and the Holy Spirit. It is not an “either/or” proposition.

Peace and Charity,

Wow. I just keep learning from you guys all the time. (I think I’m going to have to take notes on how to say this). It’s one thing to know it internally but another to be able to teach it to someone else. Well done.

 

[bkniceley]

how do u explain the criminal who was next to jesus on the cross? All he did was believe that jesus was lord and accepted him and jesus told him that he would see him in paradise that exact day. He wasnt baptised and he was saved so… ???

 

[Genesis315]

bkniceley:

how do u explain the criminal who was next to jesus on the cross? All he did was believe that jesus was lord and accepted him and jesus told him that he would see him in paradise that exact day. He wasnt baptised and he was saved so… ???

Baptism by desire.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

ONLYONECHRIST:

The only way to become saved in my opinion is TRUELY accepting Jesus into your heart. Admitting you are a sinner and believing Jesus was the son of God and was sent to earth to cleanse us from our sins. It is a complete turn from sin. I also believe that once you are saved you are always saved. And last I believe Baptism is important to salvation, but I defentaley do not believe it saves you or you have to be baptized to go to heaven.

I was wondering your guys thoughts.

Hi Only, How about repentance? God Bless

 

[SusanL]

Genesis315:

Baptism by desire.

I never thought of that. Thank you.

 

[Philthy]

ONLYONECHRIST:

The only way to become saved in my opinion is TRUELY accepting Jesus into your heart.

I don’t disagree with this and , in fact, want to agree with it because it sounds so good but it’s hard to know exactly what you mean by “truly” and what you mean by “accepting Jesus”, and what you mean by “into your heart”.

ONLYONECHRIST:

Admitting you are a sinner and believing Jesus was the son of God and was sent to earth to cleanse us from our sins.

This is a good example of needing to be a little more careful with the wording: as stated, this is heretical! Jesus is the **eternally **begotten son of the father. To say that he “was” the Son implies he no longer is…
In addition, to say that Christ was sent to earth to cleanse us from our sins is a little ambiguous. I think it is more accurate to say that he was sent to MAKE AVAILABLE forgiveness through his life, death and resurrection. The actual forgiveness doesn’t happen simply because Christ made it available - otherwise everyone is already saved (universalism) - another heresy.

ONLYONECHRIST:

It is a complete turn from sin.

Again, sounds like something I’d like to agree with, but I am unaware of anyone who claims this. Are you saying you don’t sin? How would you know such a thing? Does not God make such judgements?

ONLYONECHRIST:

I also believe that once you are saved you are always saved.

I believe that in a sense this is true, but probably not in the sense you mean it. You have already implicated that salvation is contigent upon the forgiveness of our sins. But what you appear to ignore is that the forgiveness of our sins is an ONGOING process. Jesus tells us plainly: if you do not forgive others their sins neither will your heavenly father forgive you yours.
People will continue to sin against us: Jesus is calling us to continue to forgive them. If we don’t, then we won’t be forgiven and won’t be saved. In short, you must walk the walk.

ONLYONECHRIST:

And last I believe Baptism is important to salvation,

You may be using such vague language because you don’t realize how many ways your statements can be taken. “Important” to salvation? Why don’t you go think about that a little more and come back and tell us what “important” means apart from being necessary.

ONLYONECHRIST:

but I defentaley do not believe it saves you or you have to be baptized to go to heaven.

You don’t believe baptism saves you? Did you come to this conclusion on your own? What do you think of the verse from 1Peter 3:21:
This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrction of Jesus Christ,
Or this from Acts 23:16:
“Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.” Remember: sin forgiveness and salvation go hand in hand.
Read this to get some context of what the giants in the Church taught regarding baptism:
catholic.com/library/Necessity_of_Baptism.asp
What you are probably ignorant of is that baptism can happen a variety of ways. In addition, no one can say it is impossible to be saved without baptism - so the Church doesn’t disagree with your statement that you must be baptized to go to heaven. Also, simply because you are baptized does not mean you go to heaven. But being baptized does mean you have been saved. You seem to think that “being saved” and “I am going to heaven” are equivalent. I don’t think so. I have been saved, I am being saved, and I hope to continue being saved until I die, face judgement and attain eternal salvation.

ONLYONECHRIST:

I was wondering your guys thoughts.

I think these are some good issues you bring up. Getting past the language barrier is a very good starting point for meaningful discussion. thanks for the post.

Phil

 

[Philthy]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Only, How about repentance? God Bless

Hi spoken!

Doesn’t “repent” mean “to turn away from”… which is equivalent to " a complete turn from sin" from the original post.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Philthy:

Hi spoken!

Doesn’t “repent” mean “to turn away from”… which is equivalent to " a complete turn from sin" from the original post.

Hi Philthy, Yes ,it does, but its also recognizing that the soul is guilty before God. God Bless

 

[mercygate]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Lisa, Someone who has never heard of Jesus will be judged according to the Law of God. God Bless

Right, Spokes! (There ya go, talkin’ Catholic again!)

The Church believes that the law of right and wrong is installed with our human dignity at birth.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

bkniceley:

how do u explain the criminal who was next to jesus on the cross? All he did was believe that jesus was lord and accepted him and jesus told him that he would see him in paradise that exact day. He wasnt baptised and he was saved so… ???

(1) How do you know he was not baptized? The Bible does not say whether he was or was not baptized.

(2) Even if he did not receive baptism with water, the Church acknowledges that one can receive a baptism of desire, just as effective for obtaining saving grace.

(3) Also, the Church only professes that Baptism is the NORMATIVE method of obtaining justification. Salvation of those who - through no fault of their own - are deprived of the opportunity for baptism are not denied salvation, but it is in Christ’s hands.

Here’s what the Catechism says about the Necessity of Baptism:

VI. THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

Peace and Charity,

 

[Catholic_Heart]

ONLYONECHRIST:

The only way to become saved in my opinion is TRUELY accepting Jesus into your heart. Admitting you are a sinner and believing Jesus was the son of God and was sent to earth to cleanse us from our sins. It is a complete turn from sin. I also believe that once you are saved you are always saved. And last I believe Baptism is important to salvation, but I defentaley do not believe it saves you or you have to be baptized to go to heaven.

I was wondering your guys thoughts.

**Every time Catholics say “Amen” after having received Holy Commuion they are reaffirming their acceptance of Jesus as the Son of the living God. **

---

 

[mercygate]

bkniceley:

how do u explain the criminal who was next to jesus on the cross? All he did was believe that jesus was lord and accepted him and jesus told him that he would see him in paradise that exact day. He wasnt baptised and he was saved so… ???

Since we don’t KNOW that the criminal was not baptized, and since Jesus was right THERE, making that promise in person (and, while we’re at it, where is Paradise, hm?), and since the Great Commission to baptize all nations had not yet been given, there is a certain open-endedness in that situation. So Catholics would agree that it is possible that baptism in that exceptional case might have been waived by the extenuating circumstances. Baptism forgives sins, but Jesus went around telling people their sins were forgiven aii the time. He was *Jesus. *He is not limited even by his own commandments.

But in the general order of things, Jesus gives us the sure-and-certain way with his words: “unless one is born of water and the spirit” but his mercy is wide and deep, and the Church acknowledges that in extreme cases, baptism of blood, baptism of desire are equivalent. That martyrdom was very early on considered “baptism” is evidenced by the custom in the second century, when a martyr was attacked by beasts in the arena, the Christians would cry, “Well washed! Well washed!” when blood was drawn.

In a sense, the criminal is exhibiting “baptism of desire.” But really, I think the presence of Jesus is the clincher in this one.

The Catholic principle is always: if Jesus said to do something, then we had jolly well better do it – allowing for mercy in cases where compliance is impossible.

 

[Church_Militant]

Hey mercygate,
I was just thinking that very same thing.
Pax vobiscum,

 

[Ignatius]

tkdnick:

I got that, but what is God’s law? Are we talking like the 10 Commandments or something else?

It is the Natural written on the hearts of men.

 

[mercygate]

Church Militant:

Hey mercygate,
I was just thinking that very same thing.
Pax vobiscum,

Thanks, Mil – I wrote that nice, gentle, thoughtful, apologetic post only to realize that ONLYONECHRIST has been sent to time-out. Shucks!