Beef, Beer and Catholic fundraisers

[Cat]

How is any of this anyone’s responsibility but yours? I mean figureskaters don’t walk around with signs over their head stating that they are figureskaters, so yes, a good hostess will look to introduce people to others of compatible interests. But that’s a different thing entirely.

As someone who rarely drinks myself, even when other people are drinking, I have two functioning eyes and am perfectly capable of seeing for myself who’s drinking and who isn’t at a function. Surely you can do the same. And then since you think drinkers are such total deadlosses as companions (I happen not to), you can stick with the teetotallers.

Again, LilyM, I’m surprised to read this. You are one of the people on this forum that I consider reasonable and kind-hearted.

Why is it a different thing for a host or hostess of a party to try to make his/her guests comfortable, and for a host parish to make their guests comfortable? Is not the parish a “family?” Wouldn’t a “family” want to see that everyone has a good time?

And LilyM, I nevered called drinkers “total deadlosses.” This is an awful phrase and I wish you would not ascribe this to me.

As far as I know, in all of my posts, I described how I feel about people who are drinking. I am trying very hard to phrase this as MY PERCEPTIONS of the culture of drinking so that those who drink can begin to understand the wall that sometimes separates us. I’ve also tried to separate the ill-effects of alcohol usage from those who use it.

Perhaps I’ve slipped up in a few spots and been less-than-kind to those who drink alcohol. Please forgive me if I have, but I am trying hard NOT to label people who drink. I am trying in this thread to demonstrate that a lack of tolerance for alcohol usage is a WEAKNESS, not a virtue.

Yes, of course I have a problem. And your answer is to tell me to get lost and stick with the teetotallers. That doesn’t seem like a very nice solution to the problem. Maybe it’s for the best. The more I read of this thread, the more I see that it would be best for me and my kind to just stay away.

I
And that’s my point. Teetotallers are all over in the evangelical fellowships. So are you telling me to go back to Evangelical Land and enjoy their alcohol-free socials? That’s what it sounds like you are telling me, even if that’s not what you mean. And to be honest, it sounds nice. I miss those socials. I miss being around people like that. As much as I love the Catholic Church, I miss being around people who don’t drink, ever, and for whom drinking is never an issue, ever. I miss my friends. And I haven’t made that many new ones in the Catholic Church. It’s not just the alcohol.

Did you see BradWs post? There were NO non-drinkers at the function at his parish. He had NO ONE, no other tee-totallers. And no one provided him with anything to drink until he asked–embarrassing for him. And when they did provide him with soda, it was flat.

What an awful experience! And you say this is HIS PROBLEM?! IMO, the host of the event at BradWs parish should have offered to drive up the road and purchase a cold soda for BradW rather than allow him to be without anything cold and refreshing to drink. Or at least, the host should have provided him with a tall glass of iced water–isn’t that what Jesus told us to do for others in the same way that we would do it for Him?

And are you seriously saying that we should stroll about from table to table and hunt for those who are sipping soda? Think about it–that is really hard! Physically and emotionally–it’s tough to walk around and see group after group of people who you feel uncomfortable around (even if there is no need to feel uncomfortable, as I’ve tried to describe in earlier posts–we DO feel uncomfortable because we weren’t raised around drink). This scenario reminds me of those times when as a child or teenager, I went somewhere where didn’t know someone, and it was so awful to feel left out. Sometimes I found a friend, and sometimes I didn’t. Sometimes I just stayed by myself or went home.

 

[JRKH]

Again, LilyM, I’m surprised to read this. You are one of the people on this forum that I consider reasonable and kind-hearted.

Cat,
If Lily is a person whom you consider reasonable and kind hearted in general, why not take her comments to heart. I understand that a number of things have been said on this thread that should not have been. But if a reasonable poster like Lily has insulted you, then it just may be possible that you have, unintentionally, insulted others. Who knows how these things get started, but look to the posts by those you respect, and if they seem defensive, ask yourself why? I often do this to improve my own ability to communicate in this media.

Why is it a different thing for a host or hostess of a party to try to make his/her guests comfortable, and for a host parish to make their guests comfortable? Is not the parish a “family?” Wouldn’t a “family” want to see that everyone has a good time?

Yes a parish should be a family, and Yes they do want everyone to have a good time. Let me ask this. At Parish functions where beer is served, do they also serve soda’s? I’m sure the answer there is yes, particularly at festivals etc where children are expected. So this is inclusive. It provides drinks for all tastes. Isn’t this the very definition of a family wanting everyone to have a good time? If Alcohol is banned at events how does that fit with your desire that everyone have a good time?

And LilyM, I nevered called drinkers “total deadlosses.” This is an awful phrase and I wish you would not ascribe this to me.

I agree with this. When we are responding to people we should be careful not to “Put words in their mouths”

As far as I know, in all of my posts, I described how I feel about people who are drinking. I am trying very hard to phrase this as MY PERCEPTIONS of the culture of drinking so that those who drink can begin to understand the wall that sometimes separates us. I’ve also tried to separate the ill-effects of alcohol usage from those who use it.

Perhaps I’ve slipped up in a few spots and been less-than-kind to those who drink alcohol. Please forgive me if I have, but I am trying hard NOT to label people who drink. I am trying in this thread to demonstrate that a lack of tolerance for alcohol usage is a WEAKNESS, not a virtue.

No problem from this poster.
We can all have problems conveying our feelings in writing at times. Plus we can all become defensive if the right buttons are pushed - even by accident.

Yes, of course I have a problem. And your answer is to tell me to get lost and stick with the teetotallers. That doesn’t seem like a very nice solution to the problem. Maybe it’s for the best. The more I read of this thread, the more I see that it would be best for me and my kind to just stay away.

I think this might be overreacting a bit. You certainly should NOT “Stay away”. I do agree that you may have a “problem”, but it is from your background. Since you are use to being around non-drinkers and that is where you are most comfortable, you are having a very hard time adjusting to this different culture.
I don’t think you should stay away from things. First because it would only make you feel more isolated and could cause resentment. Second because you may be missing an opportunity to minister and witness to your fellow parishoners that you don’t have to drink to have a good time. Please consider that this could very well be a calling of God for you.

And that’s my point. Teetotallers are all over in the evangelical fellowships. So are you telling me to go back to Evangelical Land and enjoy their alcohol-free socials? That’s what it sounds like you are telling me, even if that’s not what you mean. And to be honest, it sounds nice. I miss those socials. I miss being around people like that. As much as I love the Catholic Church, I miss being around people who don’t drink, ever, and for whom drinking is never an issue, ever. I miss my friends. And I haven’t made that many new ones in the Catholic Church. It’s not just the alcohol.

Perhaps this is the real crux of the matter. You are going through a huge cultural change and the issues with alcohol are being an impediment for you.

Did you see BradWs post? There were NO non-drinkers at the function at his parish. He had NO ONE, no other tee-totallers. And no one provided him with anything to drink until he asked–embarrassing for him. And when they did provide him with soda, it was flat.

What an awful experience! And you say this is HIS PROBLEM?! IMO, the host of the event at BradWs parish should have offered to drive up the road and purchase a cold soda for BradW rather than allow him to be without anything cold and refreshing to drink. Or at least, the host should have provided him with a tall glass of iced water–isn’t that what Jesus told us to do for others in the same way that we would do it for Him?

And are you seriously saying that we should stroll about from table to table and hunt for those who are sipping soda? Think about it–that is really hard! Physically and emotionally–it’s tough to walk around and see group after group of people who you feel uncomfortable around (even if there is no need to feel uncomfortable, as I’ve tried to describe in earlier posts–we DO feel uncomfortable because we weren’t raised around drink). This scenario reminds me of those times when as a child or teenager, I went somewhere where didn’t know someone, and it was so awful to feel left out. Sometimes I found a friend, and sometimes I didn’t. Sometimes I just stayed by myself or went home.

Cat, I honestly do see where you have issues with how your parish functions. Perhaps the thing to do is to address this with some other parishoners. Perhaps you SHOULD walk around and look for others drinking only soda’s and see what they think. Of course don’t approach it like a polster, but sit and chat and then try to get a feel for how others think of the issue. As I said in an earlier post, this is really something that needs to be addressed on a parish by parish level.

Peace
James

 

[LilyM]

I agree with this. When we are responding to people we should be careful not to “Put words in their mouths”

Cat I do apologise, and I went overboard (I’ll take the rap and not blame it on stress).

You have had an awful lot to say, though, not only on how very very much you dislike alcohol (and if you want to get rid of something that REALLY takes lives and destroys families, please be consistent and ask people not to drive as well - cars are just as bad!). And you have come across as having a very negative view not just of those who drink to excess, but those who drink fullstop.

You make gross and somewhat insulting generalisations like ‘I don’t need a stinkin’ glass of fermented grain to be happy’ - the clear implication being that all or even most of those who drink are dependent on alcohol or ‘need’ it. Of course we don’t, any more than we need music. Alcohol and music, however, are both good additions to a social event and enhance the enjoyment of many people there, in moderation of course.

And I do take exception as well to your choice comment about how you feel Catholics would rather, and I quote, ‘die in their sins (as if most of us drink in a way that even approaches sinful)’ than abstain for the sake of others. That shows an incredibly low (and entirely unjustifiably so) opinion of your fellow man.

Have you even brought up these feelings to the people who co-ordinate social events in your parish? I have a feeling they just might accomodate you a bit more if you made your concerns known - as long as you didn’t slip in any sly digs at people who DO drink. Or even better, organise a few social events of your own - then you can have 'em alcohol free.

 

[redhen]

I like the quote from Benjamin Franklin - ‘beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy’.

God created beer to make man happy? Hmm, if anything I would have thought God created cannabis sativa to make man happy since man has evolved specific cannabinoid receptors in his brain exclusively to bind with cannabinoids.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_receptor

Alcohol has no such receptors. It just takes a shotgun approach, affecting your neurotransmitters. Alcohol is bad in so many ways, not the least it can kill you.

 

[ethelzguy]

ethelzguy, I’m really surprised to see you, of all people, speak this way. Usually you are quite reasonable.

Cat,

I apologize if I personally offended you.

I too, have “experience” with alcohol issues in my family. Last year, my 58-year-old nephew died of organ failure related to alcohol abuse. To put it bluntly, he was a drunkard, and his body finally gave up on him.

However, I feel that the responsibility for his fate rested with him, not anything or anyone else…certainly not the Catholic Church.

Many things in life, when abused can harm us. Hundreds, if not thousands of people die as a result of reckless driving. That does not make cars bad or sinful. I could give other examples, but I’m sure you get my point.

To me, I see the alcohol issue as just another “anti-Catholic” topic with many protestants, who must find things to be “anti-Catholic” about in order to justify their protestantism, much like rejecting the Pope or the Real Presence…or our position on abortion and birth control.

Hope this clears up my postion.

TBL

 

[catharina]

In regard to Cat’s post: “Originally Posted by Cat
Let me ask you something–if it were possible for you to lead a soul back to the Catholic Church–but the condition is abstinence from alcohol–would you be willing?”

to Cat Would you be willing to do the opposite?

I answered Cat’s post (and challenge) back in Post # 100. Yet I still haven’t heard even a peep of a comment from Cat or gracandglory. Neither has responded to your question either. Why is that? My answer was and is:

**
If I could do it in such a way that the proposed candidate for conversion understood without any equivaocation that I was doing so, exceptionally, for him/her (because my own FAITH tells me that I need not forgo alcohol) then yes, I’d be willing to do so. It’s a non-issue.

However, your open hostility (regarding Catholics who do drink) is quite another issue.**

 

[Cat]

In regard to Cat’s post: “Originally Posted by Cat
Let me ask you something–if it were possible for you to lead a soul back to the Catholic Church–but the condition is abstinence from alcohol–would you be willing?”

I’m sorry catharina, I simply haven’t had the time. This is a “work weekend” for me.

If it would save a soul, I would be willing to drink alcohol. I would hope that the Lord would give me the fortitude to drink without 1) throwing up and 2) getting hooked on it.

Yes, for someone like me, getting addicted is a real fear–I drink six to eight 20oz sodas/day. I can eat 24 Peeps without batting an eyelash. I can finish an entire package (3 rows) of Oreos. And unfortunately, I have no problem finished the mega servings that U.S. restaurants serve–I very seldom use a doggie bag. I can also watch a favorite movie a hundred times, or read a favorite book several time a year for years.

So I think it’s safe to say that my personality and alcohol are not a “safe” blend.

We are supposed to be willing to die for our brothers to show true Christian love. I would hope that I could down a drink–but I hope I never have to, just like I hope I never have to die to demonstrate my love for others.

catharina, if you look back, I believe I did thank you for admitting that if a soul was at stake, you would make whatever sacrifice was necessary. But maybe that was someone else.

I answered Cat’s post (and challenge) back in Post # 100. Yet I still haven’t heard even a peep of a comment from Cat or gracandglory. Neither has responded to your question either. Why is that? My answer was and is:

**
If I could do it in such a way that the proposed candidate for conversion understood without any equivaocation that I was doing so, exceptionally, for him/her (because my own FAITH tells me that I need not forgo alcohol) then yes, I’d be willing to do so. It’s a non-issue.

However, your open hostility (regarding Catholics who do drink) is quite another issue.**

 

[Cat]

In regard to Cat’s post: “Originally Posted by Cat
Let me ask you something–if it were possible for you to lead a soul back to the Catholic Church–but the condition is abstinence from alcohol–would you be willing?”

I answered Cat’s post (and challenge) back in Post # 100. Yet I still haven’t heard even a peep of a comment from Cat or gracandglory. Neither has responded to your question either. Why is that? My answer was and is:

**
If I could do it in such a way that the proposed candidate for conversion understood without any equivaocation that I was doing so, exceptionally, for him/her (because my own FAITH tells me that I need not forgo alcohol) then yes, I’d be willing to do so. It’s a non-issue.

However, your open hostility (regarding Catholics who do drink) is quite another issue.**

I’m sorry catharina, I simply haven’t had the time. This is a “work weekend” for me.

If it would save a soul, I would be willing to drink alcohol. I would hope that the Lord would give me the fortitude to drink without 1) throwing up and 2) getting hooked on it.

Yes, for someone like me, getting addicted is a real fear–I drink six to eight 20oz sodas/day. I can eat 24 Peeps without batting an eyelash. I can finish an entire package (3 rows) of Oreos. And unfortunately, I have no problem finished the mega servings that U.S. restaurants serve–I very seldom use a doggie bag. I can also watch a favorite movie a hundred times, or read a favorite book several time a year for years.

So I think it’s safe to say that my personality and alcohol are not a “safe” blend.

We are supposed to be willing to die for our brothers to show true Christian love. I would hope that I could down a drink–but I hope I never have to, just like I hope I never have to die to demonstrate my love for others.

catharina, if you look back, I believe I did thank you for admitting that if a soul was at stake, you would make whatever sacrifice was necessary. But maybe that was someone else.

 

[catharina]

I’m sorry catharina, I simply haven’t had the time. This is a “work weekend” for me.

If it would save a soul, I would be willing to drink alcohol. I would hope that the Lord would give me the fortitude to drink without 1) throwing up and 2) getting hooked on it.

Yes, for someone like me, getting addicted is a real fear–I drink six to eight 20oz sodas/day. I can eat 24 Peeps without batting an eyelash. I can finish an entire package (3 rows) of Oreos. And unfortunately, I have no problem finished the mega servings that U.S. restaurants serve–I very seldom use a doggie bag. I can also watch a favorite movie a hundred times, or read a favorite book several time a year for years.

So I think it’s safe to say that my personality and alcohol are not a “safe” blend.

We are supposed to be willing to die for our brothers to show true Christian love. I would hope that I could down a drink–but I hope I never have to, just like I hope I never have to die to demonstrate my love for others.

**
catharina, if you look back, I believe I did thank you for admitting that if a soul was at stake, you would make whatever sacrifice was necessary. But maybe that was someone else**.

I can’t recall your thanking anyone. I did notice that you re-appeared on the thread with more complaints, a few helpful explanations - and no response to my answer (working or not). I’ve worked this weekend too. Yes, I have “looked back” over the thread.

 

[omegabane]

So what you are telling me is that you WOULD give up alcohol if it meant leading a soul home to the Catholic Church?

Thank you.

My main point is that I get the feeling from threads and from discussion with Catholics in real life that many Catholics would rather see people die in their sins than give up their liquor. I apologize if my perception of my fellow Catholics is incorrect.

To be fair to Cat, she did thank you, catharina, although it was in post 94 before you offered your explanation.

 

[JRKH]

Let’s see if we can get a little bit back on topic here.

It just to happens that we had a insert in our Bulletin today that contains a listing of the Food and concessions to be offered at this years festival.
The list includes:
Mr Softee Ice Cream
Fresh squeezed Lemonade
Sno-Cones
Coca-Cola Products (Cola, lemonlime etc.)
Beer
“Hard” Lemonade
Margeritas

It looks to me as though our festival commitee has tried to cover everyone’s taste and desires for beverages.

Can anyone else offer a list (even from memory) of items at their festivals?

Peace
James

 

[omegabane]

James - yes, our last Parish festival featured:

Barbeque
Baked goods
Soft drinks
Water
Wine
Beer

I ran the wine tasting booth at the festival, and we had absolutely no issues with people over-indulging. In fact, we gained a new parishioner at the wine tasting booth because he just happened to stop by after having moved from 2000 miles away.

I’m not saying that the alcohol brought him in, but that wine tasting booth is where I met him. He is now one of my dearest friends, and he and his family are a huge asset to the community at my Parish.

 

[JRKH]

James - yes, our last Parish festival featured:

Barbeque
Baked goods
Soft drinks
Water
Wine
Beer

I ran the wine tasting booth at the festival, and we had absolutely no issues with people over-indulging. In fact, we gained a new parishioner at the wine tasting booth because he just happened to stop by after having moved from 2000 miles away.

I’m not saying that the alcohol brought him in, but that wine tasting booth is where I met him. He is now one of my dearest friends, and he and his family are a huge asset to the community at my Parish.

Great -
I see from your header that you are in the San-Fran area.
I bet the idea of no wine at festivals in your area would be about as alien as no beer is in my area.

There was another thread where we got a bit off topic and decided that we needed to have a “beer” event with the Lutherens. That way it would be easier to smooth our our differences. I’ll see if I can find it

Peace
James

 

[omegabane]

Great -
I see from your header that you are in the San-Fran area.
I bet the idea of no wine at festivals in your area would be about as alien as no beer is in my area.

Peace
James

James - interesting to note that the guy I was referring to moved from Cincinnati. Yes, wine is s staple of the Northern California region. We get much of our wine donated to the Church as several people in the Parish are in the industry or have connections to it.

 

[catharina]

To be fair to Cat, she did thank you, catharina, although it was in post 94 before you offered your explanation.

Silly me. I thought she was continuing in a sarcastic vein. (You think she wasn’t?) The notion that Cat “thanked” me in Post 95 for something I stated in Post 100 defies logic.

Logic: who needs it? It seems she’s thanked me now - or forgiven me - or something.

For the record, I’ve never been to a Beef, Beer, (Brats), etc… I’ve been a Catholic for 62 years. Go figure. I know most certainly that my presence is not required.

(Brats are big in Chicago. AKA Polish Sausage.)

 

[Cat]

I can’t recall your thanking anyone. I did notice that you re-appeared on the thread with more complaints, a few helpful explanations - and no response to my answer (working or not). I’ve worked this weekend too. Yes, I have “looked back” over the thread.

Post 95. And it was sincere thanks. I appreciate your willingness to sacrifice to help others come into the Catholic Church.

Edit: I read through the rest of the thread and see that you decided that I was being sarcastic.

I try never to be sarcastic on this forum. I actually started a thread a few months ago denouncing sarcasm because I think it’s confusing to many people.

As for why I thanked you in 95 for your post 100–that’s the way the internet works. You may be posting yours at the same time that I posted mine, and they end up in the thread out of order from their time. I’m sure you already knew that.

 

[catharina]

Post 95. And it was sincere thanks. I appreciate your willingness to sacrifice to help others come into the Catholic Church.

Edit: I read through the rest of the thread and see that you decided that I was being sarcastic.

I try never to be sarcastic on this forum. I actually started a thread a few months ago denouncing sarcasm because I think it’s confusing to many people.

As for why I thanked you in 95 for your post 100–that’s the way the internet works. You may be posting yours at the same time that I posted mine, and they end up in the thread out of order from their time. I’m sure you already knew that.

You were being sincere in your thanks? Then you’re welcome.

As for a flow of sarcasm - I thought Post 85 was nothing but sarcasm.
I apologize if I was mistaken.

Yes, I do know how the internet works.
Two posts that are posted 30 minutes apart do not end up in separate queues.
I posted long after you’d given your (sincere) thanks.

Is the horse dead yet? (SARCASM.)

 

[ethelzguy]

For the record, I’ve never been to a Beef, Beer, (Brats), etc… I’ve been a Catholic for 62 years. Go figure. I know most certainly that my presence is not required.

(Brats are big in Chicago. AKA Polish Sausage.)

Cooked in beer, of course

 

[Cat]

You were being sincere in your thanks? Then you’re welcome.

As for a flow of sarcasm - I thought Post 85 was nothing but sarcasm.
I apologize if I was mistaken.

Yes, I do know how the internet works.
Two posts that are posted 30 minutes apart do not end up in separate queues.
I posted long after you’d given your (sincere) thanks.

Is the horse dead yet? (SARCASM.)

Post 85 was not sarcastic at all. As I said in the post, I was trying to give you all a sense of how people like me feel in drinking situations. I guess that post was a failure. Rats.

As for the apology–I think I put quotes around a different post than I meant to quote. I’m so sorry for the confusion. I meant to respond to the post in which you said you would give up lliquor if it meant helping some into the Church.

 

[catharina]

Post 85 was not sarcastic at all. As I said in the post, I was trying to give you all a sense of how people like me feel in drinking situations. I guess that post was a failure. Rats.

As for the apology–I think I put quotes around a different post than I meant to quote. I’m so sorry for the confusion. I meant to respond to the post in which you said you would give up lliquor if it meant helping some into the Church.

Then I do indeed thank you.

Maybe you can accept too that many Catholics don’t drink at all. Some, becasue they’ve found they’re alcoholics, some to avoid the weight gain, some because they never learned to like the taste, some because their friends/family are avoiding alcohol. I’ve never heard any complaints bout their “feeling funny” for refusing. Truly, IMO, it’s a non-issue for most Catholics.

Yes, No, Maybe = non-issue.