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jim1130
Guest
Peace.
Similar to many other matters, as long as it is not abused. We need to eat, but that does not mean we need to be gluttons.
Peace.
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Similar to many other matters, as long as it is not abused. We need to eat, but that does not mean we need to be gluttons.
Peace.
W
WHCSC
Guest
Romans 14:13 says: “Then let us no longer judge one another, but rather resolve never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.” I worry that serving beer at these events is puting a stumbling block in the way of a brother. If not serving beer helps at least one person, then isn’t that what we should be doing? Shouldn’t those that can drink in moderation be willing to do without while at a church function?
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Duchofb
Guest
Hello, I started on this thread because I am very interested on the Catholic’s point of view on alcohol consumption at functions etc. I grew up in the Baptist church and know that the consumption of alcohol is not the sin they (they being the members of my former church) refer to, but the drunkeness that can ensue, the immoral behaviours some exhibit as well as the addiction that can develope. Some Pastors condone abstinence with the idea that if you don’t drink, you can’t get drunk, stupid or become an alcoholic. Avoid temptation rather than flirt with it. Although many take it that last step and call having a drink a sin.
That said, I am researching other churches and their teachings because I am more than a little disillusioned with the Baptists. For other reasons (which are highly personal) and although I am no longer a faithful follower, and haven’t been for quite some time, I will not dishonour another faith by laughing at their beliefs it is uncharitable.
I know many people who are fighting alcoholism (I am one of them) and have a lot of difficulty attending a function that serves alcohol regardless of who is in charge of it. As a result they miss out on a lot of opportunities to socialize with others of faith and participate in community events hosted by the Church. I don’t want to miss out either. Perhaps the Church could look into hosting more events without than with or have guidelines/sober participants in place to support those who are having difficulties.
Isn’t it possible for people to have fun without making a big deal of what they are drinking or what is/isn’t being served?
That said, I am researching other churches and their teachings because I am more than a little disillusioned with the Baptists. For other reasons (which are highly personal) and although I am no longer a faithful follower, and haven’t been for quite some time, I will not dishonour another faith by laughing at their beliefs it is uncharitable.
I know many people who are fighting alcoholism (I am one of them) and have a lot of difficulty attending a function that serves alcohol regardless of who is in charge of it. As a result they miss out on a lot of opportunities to socialize with others of faith and participate in community events hosted by the Church. I don’t want to miss out either. Perhaps the Church could look into hosting more events without than with or have guidelines/sober participants in place to support those who are having difficulties.
Isn’t it possible for people to have fun without making a big deal of what they are drinking or what is/isn’t being served?
J
jim1130
Guest
Peace.
I see your point. From my perspective, it is about free will and choices. I go to Church events, have a beer, maybe two, then stop. Others may not be able to stop. If that is the case, they need to make a critical decision whether to imbibe or not. I don’t think that we need to be all that controlling.
Peace.
O
Orionthehunter
Guest
Using this analogy, we should ban the internet in the event one person uses it to view pornography. In a world where everyone has a cross to bear, we can’t be so scrupulous that we feel the need to provide absolute protection for every person in every situation. This is just a matter of prudence. Like anything, somethings can be abused or used inappropriately. I have a friend who is an alcoholic. For a while, we quit drinking in his presence. Now, we might have a beer after golf in his presence. To some degree, if a person is unable to be around alcohol at all, the burden is on him as it says in Romans 14:12 below.
As I always react when one verse out of context is used to prove a point: Romans 14: 1-12 says:
**Welcome anyone who is weak in faith, but not for disputes over opinions. One person believes that one may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. The one who eats must not despise the one who abstains, and the one who abstains must not pass judgment on the one who eats; for God has welcomed him. **
Who are you to pass judgment on someone else’s servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. (For) one person considers one day more important than another, while another person considers all days alike. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind. Whoever observes the day, observes it for the Lord. Also whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.
None of us lives for oneself, and no one dies for oneself.
For if we live, we live for the Lord, 3 and if we die, we die for the Lord; so then, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For this is why Christ died and came to life, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living. Why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bend before me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.” So (then) each of us shall give an account of himself (to God).
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WHCSC
Guest
I guess I see it as part of my Christian duty to try to help other get to Heaven. If not having beer at an event helps someone avoid sin, then it is a small price to pay. How is serving beer at one of these events helping someone get to Heaven? If someone wants to drink beer, shouldn’t the burden be on that person to go somewhere where it is served? IMO, that place shouldn’t be a church function. I firmly believe that there isn’t much good that can come from drinking alcohol. Doing without for one night, or just part of one night, shouldn’t be too much if it helps someone else.
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jim1130
Guest
Peace.
And that truly is your choice, part of the free will we received from God. People can say “no” to beer and choose not to drink it. Or drink it in moderation. And if it becomes abused then someone may step in.
Peace.
O
Orionthehunter
Guest
That darn Jesus. Didn’t he care about those people when he changed the water into wine?
I also think we need to quit allowing people to go back for seconds at our Turkey dinner. Some of these people just need to quit eating so much. And the wonderful fattening pies these women keep bringing. They are so devilishly tempting. How do they expect me not to be gluttonous.
And, now while I’m going at it. There are people who donate a week at their lake cabin to be auctioned off. When I think of people who can afford a lake cabin, I get so envious. And that Jim who sits in front of us at church. How can he let his wife come to church all dressed up. She is so pretty I can’t help myself but wish my wife were that pretty, not to mention how svelte she is. If she were my wife, I’d never let her get her hair cut and her only clothes would be a sack cloth.
P.S. I see that the rest of Roman’s 14 didn’t mean anythign to you- What is wrong for you isn’t necessarily wrong for another.
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jim1130
Guest
Peace.
We truly have choices in life and the free will to either act on these choices or not. And if we do act on them at what level are they acted upon? In thought? Word? Thought, word, and deed? The beer-issue, to me, is truly a man-made regulation imposed. Whenever I have attended a church function and beer is served, alternate beverages are also available, i.e. water and soft drinks.
Peace.
J
jim1130
Guest
Peace.
Sadly, I know you were not talking of me
Peace.
S
Sgt_Sweaters
Guest
+JMJ
Did you explain that it’s not wine, but Precious Blood?
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tee_eff_em
Guest
…and cards! I play cards too. Don’t forget that!
Nevermind…
tee
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Duchofb
Guest
“Free will.” and “Just say no.” is so easy to say (or in this case, type). Alcoholics do not chose to be unable to control themselves around alcohol and we certainly do not choose to be social outcasts. Making the problem so simplistic is insulting. I suggest that you attend a few AA meetings and see for yourself the pain and destruction of both self and loved ones that is caused by this addiction. Witness first hand how devastating and demoralizing (admitting to being an alcoholic is a one-way to ticket to unconcious exclusions by others) the struggle to stay sober can be. Then when you have heard, seen and at least made the attempt to understand the struggles see if you can still say “Just say no.” and believe it’s as easy as that.
Has the Church not been commanded by God to lift up and care for all of it’s members as well as bring others into the fold? Does this not also entail certain sacrifices on our part? Is alcohol so important that people’s cries for help can be so easily dismissed as weakness and put on the shelf that says “Not my problem.”. Are we not our brother’s keeper? I do not think that no one should drink or that attending an event that serves alcohol is wrong, I am just wondering if it is necessary for the Church to serve alcohol at their functions. It would just be really nice to join a church that I can believe in and that fully supports my (and other people’s) struggles to stay sober. If you can drink and not lose control, I commend you. Do not condemn me because I cannot.
Has the Church not been commanded by God to lift up and care for all of it’s members as well as bring others into the fold? Does this not also entail certain sacrifices on our part? Is alcohol so important that people’s cries for help can be so easily dismissed as weakness and put on the shelf that says “Not my problem.”. Are we not our brother’s keeper? I do not think that no one should drink or that attending an event that serves alcohol is wrong, I am just wondering if it is necessary for the Church to serve alcohol at their functions. It would just be really nice to join a church that I can believe in and that fully supports my (and other people’s) struggles to stay sober. If you can drink and not lose control, I commend you. Do not condemn me because I cannot.
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tee_eff_em
Guest
If you assume that no one will overindulge, why not have it available?
tee
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jim1130
Guest
Duchofb said:
Peace.
I did not read where anyone condemned you nor did I condemn you.
And I really do not understand why it is such a big issue if beer or wine I served as at parish picnic. If that was all that was available then that would be wrong, but alternatives are available.
Peace.
E
estesbob
Guest
Duchofb said:
I have been in AA for 20+ years and see no reason whatsoever why my Church or any Church should not serve beer at social functions.
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Duchofb
Guest
Perhaps my feelings in this regard are so strong because I feel I have so much to lose if I relapse and protecting myself and my family is at the top of my list of things to do today and everyday. I didn’t mean condemn me in a literal way. I meant that so many events where I live are about drinking (small town not a lot else to do) and the unconsious pressure to conform (I admit some of it is my own) puts constant stress on me and attending a Church function that serves alcohol would be one more stressor. I personally find it difficult to find a group to socialize with since all of my former friends party and I have fallen out with my former church. Since I have not been out of the party scene for very long, (3 years, 1 month and 10 days most of it either pregnant or the source of nourishment for my daughter) I still find it very difficult to attend events that serve alcohol. I know others do as well. I don’t think there should never be an event hosted by the Church that serves alcohol, only maybe more that don’t than do.
“I have been in AA for 20+ years and see no reason whatsoever why my Church or any Church should not serve beer at social functions.” Sorry, I’m still not very good at the copy and paste thing.
Good job. I’m very glad that your journey has brought you to that point. Please understand that I have not been on this road for as long and that there are still “…miles to go before I sleep…”.
“I have been in AA for 20+ years and see no reason whatsoever why my Church or any Church should not serve beer at social functions.” Sorry, I’m still not very good at the copy and paste thing.
Good job. I’m very glad that your journey has brought you to that point. Please understand that I have not been on this road for as long and that there are still “…miles to go before I sleep…”.
E
estesbob
Guest
The journey never ends, my friend. But we only have to take it one day at a time and we have the creator of the Universe watching our back-not bad odds!
Thanks for sharing.
W
WHCSC
Guest
Orionthehunter-your demeaning tone does not further your argument.
I’m sorry that you can’t see the difference in this issue. If I can help someone else by making such a small sacrifice, I will do it gladly. You, of course, have free will to choose not to.
I’m sorry that you can’t see the difference in this issue. If I can help someone else by making such a small sacrifice, I will do it gladly. You, of course, have free will to choose not to.
W
Will_Pick
Guest
Brad You may ask him if he read the Bible and to show you that drinking is a sin,The bible does not say drinking is a sin but it does say getting drunk is a sin,like all Baptist he is just a little confused,PAUl said a little wine is good for you,its in the book
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