Beer, coffee, cigarettes, marijuana

[triumphguy]

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What is this Trappist Monk doing?

A: Creating a substance that puts unwary American Catholics in the near occasion of sin
B: Brewing a very good beer?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._trappisten.jpg/350px-De_zeven_trappisten.jpg
Beer from different Trappist Monasteries.

Other alcohlic beverages brewed by monks

Chartreuse (pronounced: ʃaʁtʁøz]) is a French liqueur made by the Carthusian Monks since the 1740s.


And there’s a ton more. From Armangac (a closed distillation brandy) to Champagne to many wineries.

 

[kmuestwin]

If everything that people could abuse was controlled by the government, we would have nothing.

I love TLC and I enjoy watching “My strange addiction.” It’s amazing how people have the innate ability to turn anything into a vice if the choose to.

 

[triumphguy]

Addiction is more down to brain chemistry and what behaviours people do or what substances people ingest in order to change their brain chemistry.

If we’re serious about banning stuff we should ban brain chemistry

 

[AnneTeresa]

If you use a vaporizer to do marijuana, does that protect your lungs? I’m not asking for me (I don’t do drugs) but wondering because my son uses a vaporizer.

 

[lynnehelen]

I really want to know about pot and whether the “high” is legit (like coffee, beer, wine) or damaging/dangerous, whether through, as one person pointed out, being used as a matter of course to the point of innebriation and all the inherent dangers, near occasion of sin, et cetera. I fear that there is a hedonistic quality to this “high” (as I said, I honestly don’t use it myself and don’t want to, I already take psych meds) that makes it sinful in some way that beer, wine, etc., are not. I am sure no one can help me here given konwn illegal status of pot and therefore can’t be discussed, maybe someone in Colorado or California where it’s legal for medical use, I have been told, can tell me. I am concerned about somebody I know and I guess I should probably go Google it to find out more, like whether it’s inherently addictive, and other questions.

I had substance abuse problems in the long ago past, this thread has helped me to clear up many questions and I understand the issues better.

God Bless.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I really want to know about pot and whether the “high” is legit (like coffee, beer, wine) or damaging/dangerous, whether through, as one person pointed out, being used as a matter of course to the point of innebriation and all the inherent dangers, near occasion of sin, et cetera. I fear that there is a hedonistic quality to this “high” (as I said, I honestly don’t use it myself and don’t want to, I already take psych meds) that makes it sinful in some way that beer, wine, etc., are not. I am sure no one can help me here given konwn illegal status of pot and therefore can’t be discussed, maybe someone in Colorado or California where it’s legal for medical use, I have been told, can tell me. I am concerned about somebody I know and I guess I should probably go Google it to find out more, like whether it’s inherently addictive, and other questions.

I had substance abuse problems in the long ago past, this thread has helped me to clear up many questions and I understand the issues better.

God Bless.

Like any other addiction, pot creates a lifestyle dedicated to its repeated use. Just take a look at the people using it and you will see its effects. It leads to brain damage, no matter what its proponents believe. Never trust an addict to give you the truth. If you look on the internet, be aware that not all sources are objective.

 

[lynnehelen]

Yes, I progressively see the ravages in my friend. I believe that marijuana is truly deleterious and should not be made legal. As to its medical uses, I am not a doctor and cannot comment. But as for recreational use, No.

As to cigarettes I am so much relieved by what a poster to this thread directing to a passage in the catechism which explicitly permits “tobacco” use in moderation, that I am smoking less. My medical doctors have advised against trying to quit.

Medical uses of tobacco? “Prescription” tobacco? My doctors say it helps my nerves. I was still more struck by the reference in the same line of the catechism, as to abuse of medication. I realized that my reliance on and preoccupation with my various medications was much more of a concern than my smoking insofar as how it affects my thought life and the progress of my days, and have taken steps to resolve this by taking the medication on schedule prompted by the alarm on my cell phone and then forgetting about it. The anti-seizure/anti-anxiety medication I take, (I use it for both conditions), which can be addictive, and also the physical medis, (BP, etc.), were a source of constant worry and the way I was taking the tranquilizer was causing it to take up all my time with the idea that I was some sort of addict. Psych meds is not a good area to get into, suffice it to say that for one reason and another they were the centerpiece of my life. Now, I just set the alarm, take all the meds on a schedule and then forget about it and life my life. Suddenly I am able to attend to things again and make a point of dwellng on Jesus instead of my former preoccupations of various kinds.

 

[andrewstx]

Yes, I progressively see the ravages in my friend. I believe that marijuana is truly deleterious and should not be made legal. As to its medical uses, I am not a doctor and cannot comment. But as for recreational use, No.

As to cigarettes I am so much relieved by what a poster to this thread directing to a passage in the catechism which explicitly permits “tobacco” use in moderation, that I am smoking less. My medical doctors have advised against trying to quit.

Medical uses of tobacco? “Prescription” tobacco? My doctors say it helps my nerves. I was still more struck by the reference in the same line of the catechism, as to abuse of medication. I realized that my reliance on and preoccupation with my various medications was much more of a concern than my smoking insofar as how it affects my thought life and the progress of my days, and have taken steps to resolve this by taking the medication on schedule prompted by the alarm on my cell phone and then forgetting about it. The anti-seizure/anti-anxiety medication I take, (I use it for both conditions), which can be addictive, and also the physical medis, (BP, etc.), were a source of constant worry and the way I was taking the tranquilizer was causing it to take up all my time with the idea that I was some sort of addict. Psych meds is not a good area to get into, suffice it to say that for one reason and another they were the centerpiece of my life. Now, I just set the alarm, take all the meds on a schedule and then forget about it and life my life. Suddenly I am able to attend to things again and make a point of dwellng on Jesus instead of my former preoccupations of various kinds.

I take the anti-seisure medication Gabapentin for nueropathy.

But I hate cigarettes becuase the have killed over 1/2 of my family, lung cancer, heart disease, emphasema, when I was young both parents were cig-heads and I got asthma.

Besides they just plain make people STINK. But the nasty things will always be around reffering to prohibition. But they will exist for the plain reason so much evil exists, the bottom line, no matter how many they kill. Thank God there are now laws existing protecting people from second hand smoke from thoughtless cig addicts. If they don’t care enough for themselves to quit, they sure don’t care about others.

 

[lynnehelen]

But the catechism condones tobacco, as I said, according to post somewhere above. I heard that the Pope before JPII was a smoker. I also heard that Pope JPII banned it everywhere in the Vatican City.???

Cigarettes have caused me grief and harmed my son. They cause me to isolate. Which I did anyway. I’d rather smoke cigarettes in my room at home than lose my mind to puerile fiction as I did as a little girl and young woman. I can’t go out socially anyway, I’m peculiarly disabled and people always drink, which I can’t stand. I am dead sober on my medication and lose intrest as the vibes start to flow. So I go home. Yes, maybe once I hook up with RCIA I will find Christian connections with a focus that draws me but I am physically uncomfortable being around people unless involved in a specfific task or purpose such as grocery shopping.

Now I feel daunted again about RCIA, or rather, attending church, which I was aggravating myself over today–I know I make others feel uncomfortable around me and don’t want to be a disruptive presence in church. I blamed it on the smoking before–I couldn’t go to church because I smelled like smoke.

Honestly, people come down way to hard on smoking. The smog outside L.A. will kill you just as fast. Now that I am over my lifelong desperation about the smoking and not really, honestly, wanting to stop, well, it’s complicated, but now I am looking at the real issues, which have nothing to do with smoking.

 

[AdamP88]

If God gave us beer and coffee because he loves us, then he gave us cigarettes for the same reason.

The health risks are not that much greater. At least, the health risks are minimal in comparison to the side effects of the medications I have to take because of my status as a veteran psych patient, without cause, I won’t go there. Prescription cigarettes?

As for marijuana, I do not use it myself but I can understand that many would feel the same way about “pot” as some do about beer or coffee.

Of course, all of it, including beer, and even coffee, should be controlled for use under the age of 21. I od’d on the use of late-night coffee in college, not making the connection that I couldn’t get to sleep until 3 and couldn’t get up in time for class because I was going out for coffee at the local social spot at 11.

Also of course, physical purity contributes to spiritual purity, and all of this, beer, coffee, cigarettes–and marijuana–are indulgences deleterious to moral purity. However, so long as they can be given up for cause–as required according to the purposes of the Lord, I think they are okay, as so much of the time we NEED that comfort that God gives us because He loves us in this fast-paced world full of material riches that take us away from ourselves and our God.

All of the above cater toward introspection and reflection, and the sharing of LOVE.

There is a name for this logic…it’s called moral relativism…

 

[andrewstx]

But the catechism condones tobacco, as I said, according to post somewhere above. I heard that the Pope before JPII was a smoker. I also heard that Pope JPII banned it everywhere in the Vatican City.???

Cigarettes have caused me grief and harmed my son. They cause me to isolate. Which I did anyway. I’d rather smoke cigarettes in my room at home than lose my mind to puerile fiction as I did as a little girl and young woman. I can’t go out socially anyway, I’m peculiarly disabled and people always drink, which I can’t stand. I am dead sober on my medication and lose intrest as the vibes start to flow. So I go home. Yes, maybe once I hook up with RCIA I will find Christian connections with a focus that draws me but I am physically uncomfortable being around people unless involved in a specfific task or purpose such as grocery shopping.

Now I feel daunted again about RCIA, or rather, attending church, which I was aggravating myself over today–I know I make others feel uncomfortable around me and don’t want to be a disruptive presence in church. I blamed it on the smoking before–I couldn’t go to church because I smelled like smoke.

Honestly, people come down way to hard on smoking. The smog outside L.A. will kill you just as fast. Now that I am over my lifelong desperation about the smoking and not really, honestly, wanting to stop, well, it’s complicated, but now I am looking at the real issues, which have nothing to do with smoking.

But where does the catechism condone harming other people with ones addictions? No where.

Los angeles’s smog is caused by a lot of reasons as is El Pasos’s smog mainly due to being situated in a valley surrounded my mountians, the smog cannot escape. But public cigarette smoking can be escaped from.

I would be glad to sit next to you at Mass, it is not the smell that kills after all.
Just don’t light up in my proximity, please.

I have rid myself of all addictions and that is what cigerettes are, and addiction that hurts everyone in the area.

 

[cargau]

you cant compare coffee to cigarettes

Coffee is good for you in some ways - Cigarettes are not good for you in anyway at all

even beer is ok in moderate consumption - and pot can help people but Cigarettes or any tobacco is healthwise a BIG no -and big waste of money

Americans have an obsession with being anti-smoking. Smoking causes cancer? No it doesn’t. Excessive smoking causes cancer. I don’t know of anyone who contracted cancer from smoking one or two cigarettes.

As my mom use to say, all things in moderation…

 

[andrewstx]

Cargau, do you actually know anyone who actually smokes only one or two cigarettes and then stops? If so I’m all for them and would not object.

But I have never met such an individual, such is the power of addiction. one cig usally leads to another, and then a package, and then a carton, and then…

Both of my parents died from cigarette addiction, one from lung cancer when he was only 44 years old, and my mother died from emphasema years after quitting, but the cigs had already done their damage and the lung damage from emphasema and copd is irreperable even after quiting, it does not heal it’self.

I have copd from years of heavy smoking and still I yearn for a cig, even if I can’t hardly draw a breath and still cough up blood.

Please be very carefull with the 1 or 2, you can become addicted. Cigarette addiction is harder to shake than heroin addiction.

 

[bearer]

Marijuana is a drug, and an illegal one at that. Even if some states have decriminalized it (i.e. reduced or eliminated penalties for possession), it is still illegal at the state and federal level, medical marijuana or not. Failing to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s is a sin in itself.

In addition, the majority of rehab cases today are for marijuana addiction, not the so-called “hard” drugs that most people think about. The CCC mentions caffeine, alcohol, and tobacco separately from drugs. The four are not in the same category legally or spiritually. Using drugs for anything other than strictly therapeutic reasons (i.e. for legitimate medical purposes under your doctor’s supervision) is a grave sin.

Lots of people think that smoking pot is no big deal, and they’re wrong. Both the medical community and the Church take drug use very seriously, and it poses grave dangers to people physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

 

[jimmy]

I agree with the “it’s how you use it” camp.

when people “need” coffee in the morning, or a ciggarette, it’s because…

What do you mean when you say need? I drink coffee every morning, afternoon and evening; but I could go without it if there was some reason or need. But there is no reason or need to go without it, so I continue to enjoy it. Its not a question of need, but simply of desire. It doesn’t bother me if I don’t have coffee but why avoid it if there is no need?