F
fide
Guest
Here’s an article that makes the point in the current on-line issue of Homiletics and Pastoral Review,
Plea for Really Committing to Adult Faith Formation
Plea for Really Committing to Adult Faith Formation
- Status
J
Joannm
Guest
The article makes an important point, BUT the problem is we offer these programs and no one comes. I have a fine Adult Formation Team in my parish and we offer a great number of different opportunities for adults from courses to lectures to workshops, bible study, family activities with a faith based theme and the same people come…and now less of them are coming. Each year we try something new. The truth is that most Catholics don’t want more from their faith life than going to Church on Sunday.
I see one thing in the article that is important and that is for the priests to be available and show up at these events. Our priests don’t. Each year I encourage them to teach a class or give a workshop, even teach RCIA, but they don’t want to do that. I have had to import priests from other parishes that I know but sometimes even then the parishioners don’t show up.
Yes, adult formation is in a sad state of affairs. This year we are focusing our efforts on young parents in lecture series attached to CCD, but we know many won’t come. We are even instituting a kind of coffee house for when the kids are in CCD so the parents don’t have to go home and come back to pick up the kids. We are going to show Fr Robert Barron’s Faith Clips as conversation starters for the tables…that is if they come. We tried something similar a few years ago and only got maybe 6 people who came every week. We went over the Catechism and the Scriptures for the upcoming week.
The apathy toward formation is extreme. What we need is conversion and that will only come when people have a relationship with Jesus. Then they will want to learn more. I keep saying we need to evangelize on the lacrosse fields and in the dance studio waiting rooms.
I see one thing in the article that is important and that is for the priests to be available and show up at these events. Our priests don’t. Each year I encourage them to teach a class or give a workshop, even teach RCIA, but they don’t want to do that. I have had to import priests from other parishes that I know but sometimes even then the parishioners don’t show up.
Yes, adult formation is in a sad state of affairs. This year we are focusing our efforts on young parents in lecture series attached to CCD, but we know many won’t come. We are even instituting a kind of coffee house for when the kids are in CCD so the parents don’t have to go home and come back to pick up the kids. We are going to show Fr Robert Barron’s Faith Clips as conversation starters for the tables…that is if they come. We tried something similar a few years ago and only got maybe 6 people who came every week. We went over the Catechism and the Scriptures for the upcoming week.
The apathy toward formation is extreme. What we need is conversion and that will only come when people have a relationship with Jesus. Then they will want to learn more. I keep saying we need to evangelize on the lacrosse fields and in the dance studio waiting rooms.
F
fide
Guest
Hello Joannm,
Your post is a sadly common account. I wonder if the Lord is waiting on our priests to wake up and realize what is actually happening in the world outside of their parishes. We are suffering greatly, I think, from nearsighted pastors whose concerns do not reach beyond their immediate administrative and sacramental concerns.
I am greatly encouraged that the article is published in HPR - a magazine read by many clergy - because I don’t see the Church awakening until our priests awaken first and lead the Church as they are supposed to do. I think that if the priests called for adult formation from their hearts, from the pulpits every Sunday, then things would begin to change.
The Church needs grace, that is certain. God could, if He chose, ignite a great renewal and revival in the Church “from the bottom up”, beginning in the laity. But I wonder if He is waiting on His priests first…
In any event, we can do what we can, beginning and continuing with prayer. Thank you for your efforts! No work done in Him is fruitless, so be patient and do not give up.
BTW - why not put your observations in a comment after the article? That might help.
M
MariaChristi
Guest
M
MariaChristi
Guest
Dear Joannm,
I sympathize with you. My husband and I have been working in several parishes, in at least three different states, trying to encourage Adult Faith Formation and have experienced the difficulties you mentioned. All of us need “ongoing conversion”, no denying that, even while we experience much apathy from laity and clergy alike. Only God knows the terrible depth of our need.
My first suggestion is something you probably are already doing, but it is good to repeat and encourage all of us to continue to: “Pray without ceasing”. The devil prowls around as the Letter of Peter reminds us. The evil one wants us to become discouraged and give up, but as Mother Teresa once said “God did not call us to be successful but to be faithful” ; (that may not be an exact quote but it is close). We need to pray specifically that people will come into an intimate communion with Christ, no matter how fruitless our efforts may seem.
When My husband and I began to offer Adult Faith Formation classes we often had only 1 or 2 persons but we continued to teach no matter how few. We continue to offer God’s Word and the Teachings of the Church consistently. We’ve tried different times, days and formats. As of now, the most successful has been to offer two Sunday sessions. A Bible Study in between Masses from approx. 9:00 to 9:45 AM and an afternoon Study alternating between Scripture and the Compendium from 2 - 3 PM. We have had an attendance of about 20 persons, pretty consistently, sometimes more sometimes less, but people really want to be there. The lesson for us has been to “wait on the Lord” and continue faithfully praying and working in His Vineyard.
There is a critical and very real need for Adult Faith Formation, and I greatly appreciated the link to the article fide posted because it is a plea for real commitment. Thank you for your work in the Lord’s Vineyard, and thanks to all those who may be reading this thread who are likewise doing what they can to live and share God’s Truth. Perhaps you and others can recommend the article to your pastors, deacons, friends and relatives. I sent the link to many in our parish and among our family members. May God bless our efforts to do what we can and may we faithfully pray and trust Him to do what He alone can and will do in His Love for His Church.
I sympathize with you. My husband and I have been working in several parishes, in at least three different states, trying to encourage Adult Faith Formation and have experienced the difficulties you mentioned. All of us need “ongoing conversion”, no denying that, even while we experience much apathy from laity and clergy alike. Only God knows the terrible depth of our need.
My first suggestion is something you probably are already doing, but it is good to repeat and encourage all of us to continue to: “Pray without ceasing”. The devil prowls around as the Letter of Peter reminds us. The evil one wants us to become discouraged and give up, but as Mother Teresa once said “God did not call us to be successful but to be faithful” ; (that may not be an exact quote but it is close). We need to pray specifically that people will come into an intimate communion with Christ, no matter how fruitless our efforts may seem.
When My husband and I began to offer Adult Faith Formation classes we often had only 1 or 2 persons but we continued to teach no matter how few. We continue to offer God’s Word and the Teachings of the Church consistently. We’ve tried different times, days and formats. As of now, the most successful has been to offer two Sunday sessions. A Bible Study in between Masses from approx. 9:00 to 9:45 AM and an afternoon Study alternating between Scripture and the Compendium from 2 - 3 PM. We have had an attendance of about 20 persons, pretty consistently, sometimes more sometimes less, but people really want to be there. The lesson for us has been to “wait on the Lord” and continue faithfully praying and working in His Vineyard.
There is a critical and very real need for Adult Faith Formation, and I greatly appreciated the link to the article fide posted because it is a plea for real commitment. Thank you for your work in the Lord’s Vineyard, and thanks to all those who may be reading this thread who are likewise doing what they can to live and share God’s Truth. Perhaps you and others can recommend the article to your pastors, deacons, friends and relatives. I sent the link to many in our parish and among our family members. May God bless our efforts to do what we can and may we faithfully pray and trust Him to do what He alone can and will do in His Love for His Church.
M
MariaChristi
Guest
Dear fide,
Thanks so much for posting the link to this excellent article. I read it today and recommended it to others in my parish and among family members. I hope many among the clergy and laity will read it and be encouraged to pray and do more for the Lord. May the Holy Spirit guide us in finding find ways to help our brothers and sisters who have yet to meet Christ and all of us who need to grow in our relationship with God.
Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.
Sacred Heart of Jesus, we trust in You!
A
animalis
Guest
The ordinary way to extend the gospel to the people is through the homily (I do not know which papal document says that). The solution to this problem is not better Adult Formation seminars, but the sanctification of our priests. Lectio Divina is the tool recommended by the Vatican to bring life into the homilies. No doubt, this is the primary need to address: The formation of priests in Spirituality (doers of Asetical and Mystical Theology). We need spiritual directors, and now it seems there is a lot ignorance with this. The seminaries need a re-vap.
“And it was not enough for them to err about the knowledge of God, but whereas they lived in a great war of ignorance, they call so many and so great evils peace.” (Wis 14:22)
A
aicirt
Guest
Besides saying Mass each day, what are the responsibilites of a parish priest? I 've heard and experienced this before. Appreciative of the efforts but not wanting to be involved. How is one to cause excitment in a program when the person you are trying to help is indifferent?
Letters were sent out asking for parishioners to volunteer. That was two months ago and, although some of us have called to ask where they plan on using us, nothing has happened.
M
MariaChristi
Guest
Dear animalis,
Granted, the “ordinary” way to extend the Gospel is through the homily but considering our present time and culture, is the 10 - 15 minute Sunday homily enough ? I do not think so, especially considering the amount of confusion among many before good catechesis began using the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Compendium of the Catechism. Unfortunately, we are still a long way from an informed and articulate Catholic laity in this year of 2012 in my humble opinion.
Lectio Divina is an excellent method of praying the scriptures but it is not intended for clergy or religious only. All of us are called to holiness. In the last synod of Bishops, there were many who praised the method of Lectio Divina as practiced by the laity in their countries. The Bishops synod to be held in October 2012 is stressing Evangelization which also is intended to encourage the laity and not only clergy. The Church exists to evangelize and that includes clergy, religious and laity together.
Pope Benedict XVI wisely began visitation and revamping of our seminaries and that needs to continue. He has also begun investigating the leadership of women religious, which is needed as well. He and Bl. John Paul II have seen the need for the laity to become more active in their own vocations. With all that is available on the internet and in print, I continue to marvel at how little time some of us spend reading Scripture, the writings of the saints, and the documents of our current and recent Popes.
I pray for our clergy daily and as a member of the Legion of Mary I try to work with our pastor and priests, as did Servant of God Frank Duff the layman who founded the Legion. He is an example of one who lived his vocation to holiness and helped others toward their own sanctification and the spread of God’s kingdom. With great respect for priests and the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, Frank Duff shows us how to work with, but not to rely only, on the work of the clergy. The Legion of Mary is the largest lay apostolate in the world with some 10 million men women and children as members. See HERE for more on Frank Duff.
M
MariaChristi
Guest
Dear aicirt,
Having worked in more than one Church Office, I know that the Parish Priest delegates many things to other persons, to carry out what he may request in a letter. If the call for volunteers was sent out with the Pastor’s signature, it may be that he put others in charge of following it up. If I were you, I’d call the Church Office again, and ask to speak to the person contacting those who volunteered in response to that letter. If no one is doing the “follow-up” then maybe you need to let the pastor know. If the priest was not the pastor, then you may need to let him know that no one called you after you volunteered.
I agree with you that it is very difficult to work with some persons who do not want to become involved themselves. The important thing in parish work, is to pray, and follow the inspirations of the Holy Spirit. We are all called to do our part in building up the Body of Christ in love: clergy, religious and lay persons. May God help us to be faithful.
As to the duties of every parish priest they can be many and they may depend on the parish, but to give you some idea, here is a partial list from the code of Canon Law:
You can read more from the Code of Canon law HERE.
A
aicirt
Guest
Maria Christi…Thank you for taking the time to post what a priest’s duties should be.
I know I’ve expereinced indifference from the pastor of our church. I think Joannm has felt the same. I’m not talking about an occassion but many over a course of years. I do not feel it is my job to instruct a priest. If he choses not to give a homily which according to your post he is required to do, I’m not challenging him. What does it mean to me when a priest repeatedly does not prepare a homily? Doesn’t care.
Let’s look at it this way: apparently there are some people who see a problem. Maybe that is because the priests don’t know what the majority of the laity want or expect from them. Maybe they could use information from the laity as to what it sees lacking.
I believe fide mentioned better training in the seminaries.
One thing I think is needed is for the priests to wear something that identifies them as a priest when they are out and about in the secular world. I think it is good for evangelization. The laity should also wear a medal too to identify themselves. Minor matters but important.
I know I’ve expereinced indifference from the pastor of our church. I think Joannm has felt the same. I’m not talking about an occassion but many over a course of years. I do not feel it is my job to instruct a priest. If he choses not to give a homily which according to your post he is required to do, I’m not challenging him. What does it mean to me when a priest repeatedly does not prepare a homily? Doesn’t care.
Let’s look at it this way: apparently there are some people who see a problem. Maybe that is because the priests don’t know what the majority of the laity want or expect from them. Maybe they could use information from the laity as to what it sees lacking.
I believe fide mentioned better training in the seminaries.
One thing I think is needed is for the priests to wear something that identifies them as a priest when they are out and about in the secular world. I think it is good for evangelization. The laity should also wear a medal too to identify themselves. Minor matters but important.
K
kkollwitz
Guest
Hey MC!
At our parish the Pastor teaches RCIA. For better or worse, it does show he takes it seriously; but I don’t think it’s always necessary that it’s done that way. Catholics do themselves no favors to only value what Father or Sister puts on.
As other posts have said, yes, part of the problem is you can’t make the horses drink. Now this may seem odd, but I tell my 6th graders that I expect them to catechize their parents, to tell them each evening what they learned when they get in the car. I don’t expect that to be any thorough catechesis for parents, but it’s a good way for the kids to make it their own. My tiny opinion is that trying to meaningfully catechize lax adults is a permanently lost cause. Rather, the effort should be to give kids vivid and substantial catechesis such that they will become knowledgeable and motivated adult Catholics. Then they will see to it that their kids are brought up likewise, and the issue of poorly informed adult Catholics will fade away.
When we bemoan the bad state of education in the US, nobody talks about how much effort we should expend on adults who didn’t learn squat in K-12. Instead, we properly focus on the kids who are being educated now. The Church should do the same.
At our parish the Pastor teaches RCIA. For better or worse, it does show he takes it seriously; but I don’t think it’s always necessary that it’s done that way. Catholics do themselves no favors to only value what Father or Sister puts on.
As other posts have said, yes, part of the problem is you can’t make the horses drink. Now this may seem odd, but I tell my 6th graders that I expect them to catechize their parents, to tell them each evening what they learned when they get in the car. I don’t expect that to be any thorough catechesis for parents, but it’s a good way for the kids to make it their own. My tiny opinion is that trying to meaningfully catechize lax adults is a permanently lost cause. Rather, the effort should be to give kids vivid and substantial catechesis such that they will become knowledgeable and motivated adult Catholics. Then they will see to it that their kids are brought up likewise, and the issue of poorly informed adult Catholics will fade away.
When we bemoan the bad state of education in the US, nobody talks about how much effort we should expend on adults who didn’t learn squat in K-12. Instead, we properly focus on the kids who are being educated now. The Church should do the same.
F
fide
Guest
Hello kk,
I’m sure that MC can speak for herself, but I’d like to comment on the parts of your post above.
- If we do our best to catechize the children, and then send them back to neo-pagan homes, we are trying to fill a water bucket that is full of holes. We pour in, it immediately leaks out. Children look to their parents with an immense sense of importance and dependency - as is God’s intention! Parents are the primary educators of their children, by God’s intention. From DECLARATION ON CHRISTIAN EDUCATION - GRAVISSIMUM EDUCATIONIS, Paul VI, Oct. 28, 1965 -
3. The Authors of Education
Since parents have given children their life, they are bound by the most serious obligation to educate their offspring and therefore must be recognized as** the primary and principal educators.**(11) This role in education is so important that only with difficulty can it be supplied where it is lacking. Parents are the ones who must create a family atmosphere animated by love and respect for God and man, in which the well-rounded personal and social education of children is fostered. Hence the family is the first school of the social virtues that every society needs. It is particularly in the Christian family, enriched by the grace and office of the sacrament of matrimony, that children should be taught from their early years to have a knowledge of God according to the faith received in Baptism, to worship Him, and to love their neighbor. Here, too, they find their first experience of a wholesome human society and of the Church. Finally, it is through the family that they are gradually led to a companionship with their fellowmen and with the people of God. Let parents, then, recognize the inestimable importance a truly Christian family has for the life and progress of God’s own people.(12)
The family which has the primary duty of imparting education needs help of the whole community. In addition, therefore, to the rights of parents and others to whom the parents entrust a share in the work of education, certain rights and duties belong indeed to civil society, whose role is to direct what is required for the common temporal good. Its function is to promote the education of youth in many ways, namely: to protect the duties and rights of parents and others who share in education and to give them aid; according to the principle of subsidiarity, when the endeavors of parents and other societies are lacking, to carry out the work of education in accordance with the wishes of the parents; and, moreover, as the common good demands, to build schools and institutions.(13)
Finally, in a special way, the duty of educating belongs to the Church, not merely because she must be recognized as a human society capable of educating, but especially because she has the responsibility of announcing the way of salvation to all men, of communicating the life of Christ to those who believe, and, in her unfailing solicitude, of assisting men to be able to come to the fullness of this life.(14) The Church is bound as a mother to give to these children of hers an education by which their whole life can be imbued with the spirit of Christ and at the same time do all she can to promote for all peoples the complete perfection of the human person, the good of earthly society and the building of a world that is more human.(15)
- Following the secular example doesn’t seem prudent, especially in the light of what is happening in our society and culture. We are losing it. We are losing the very meaning of “family,” and indeed we are arrogantly redefining it in our own fallen and confused image.
M
MariaChristi
Guest
Dear kkollwitz,
My Mother told me she “learned” about the faith by listening to our Baltimore Catechism Q/A homework. She never went to Catholic school, and in fact she ended school at around 6th grade, but she was a woman who had faith in her heart passed down from my Irish Grandmother and all my Catholic ancestors from Ireland. I know that she continued to learn as I would talk to her in my growing up years about all that I learned in Catholic grade school, high school, college and graduate school. Before she passed away, she told me, moreover, that in her final days, she “really” got to know God. She was an adult learner who loved her faith and grew continually reading Scripture, the lives of the saints, discussing her faith with other adults and most of all by praying her Rosary and being silent before the Blessed Sacrament. I do not see many adults like her today!
Having taught in Catholic schools before and after Vatican II, I must say that education in general and in Catholic schools in particular varies according to places and people. I have seen a real “dumbing down” all over the United States such that we have a confused culture here and abroad. Sadly, the faith my mother inherited has been under attack and the Catholic Church is still suffering from very poor catechesis. The parents of children today have not “inherited the faith” as my Mother did, nor is it being passed on as it needs to be in both families and schools. I posted a good interview today in which Cardinal Cottier says: “we have a generation – including in Christian families – a youth that knows nothing about Christianity, a generation that some have called illiterate, and rightly so.”
I’m grateful to you and to all the catechists who are sincerely striving to give our children solid catechesis now, but as the Magisterium has reminded us, (and the article posted by fide really is an excellent one, quoting as it does both the Vatican and the USCCB) the most important area today is the neglected area of Adult Faith Formation. We need to keep training our children and young teens but faith formation must continue into adulthood and unless the children in classrooms today can see their own parents and other adults continuing to learn they too will drop out after Confirmation or maybe a bit later when they meet adult crises they cannot handle with childhood faith.
Clergy, religious and laity alike need continuing Adult Faith Formation today! The article which fide posted gave this strong and important quote:
S
Seeker1961
Guest
Catholic education has been “dumbed down” since the 1970’s. There were and still are schools that did not fall into what one of my professors called the “Warm, fuzzy Jesus” trap-but they are not the majority. There’s more than one generation that needs serious remedial education in the Catholic faith.
But the question is-how to get people to understand the value of that remedial learning? How do we send the message that there is so much more-without insulting them and calling them ignorant now?
C
Captain_America
Guest
The Original Question is a false dichotomy.
We need both: evangelization, the Great Mission, to reach those who haven’t heard of Christ, and better formation of those nominal Catholics among us.
Both.
If you feel called to evangelize, strategize the best solution.
If you feel called to reform Catholic education, do so. You have plenty of support for it!
We need both: evangelization, the Great Mission, to reach those who haven’t heard of Christ, and better formation of those nominal Catholics among us.
Both.
If you feel called to evangelize, strategize the best solution.
If you feel called to reform Catholic education, do so. You have plenty of support for it!
F
fide
Guest
Some support, yes; plenty? Where? Clergy? Pastors? Where? Without strong, consistent pastoral support, many Catholics will not/do not take the message seriously.
F
fide
Guest
I think the way to present the message is simple and true:
- Adults need adult-level formation in the Faith. The Faith as understood as a child is not deep enough or strong enough or credible enough to meet and overcome adult trials. Adult lives, adult trials, adult temptations, adult challenges NEED to be personally dealt with in a faithful way, and that requires an understanding of the Truth at an adult level.
- Adult trials and temptations also require a matured life of prayer, a matured reception of the sacraments. Satan can overcome a child (or a grown-up still thinking and believing at an 8th grade level) much more easily than he can overcome a man or woman mature and strong in Christ. Most Catholic adults (in my experience) stopped all education and formation in the Faith after confirmation in the 8th grade. Catholic adults are in a war - against relativism, immorality, practical atheism - a war unimagined in the 8th grade decades ago. Who would send a child into war! Adults need adult faith formation.
- BUT this must be presented and reinforced and re-presented by priests - by local pastors - consistently and persistently until the message takes root in the parish and begins to grow and bear fruit. Jesus did not go the the Cross to enable mediocrity! He died to gather saints - fruitful saints - into the Kingdom. We have many papal and episcopal documents - we need action in the parishes, with heart-felt sincere zeal.
A
aicirt
Guest
BINGO!!
That’s what I’m talking about.An aid to adult formation would be EWTN. Shows are wonderful. Not all are going to appeal to everyone but the information is great.
F
fide
Guest
Yes, that could help. But most EWTN watchers are already more zealous for truth and for learning and growing than the “average” Catholic. The ones that I am concerned about are the “average” Catholics who are as if asleep - because as they sleep, the enemy advances.BINGO!!
An aid to adult formation would be EWTN. Shows are wonderful. Not all are going to appeal to everyone but the information is great.
We need a strong renewal among clergy and religious - then, the people will begin to follow.
In the meantime, of course, any advance is good! The best need not be the enemy of the good. We must all do what we can, to advance the Gospel.
- Status