"Before I created you in the womb, I knew you"

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Regarding this passage from Jeremiah 1:5…Does this have any implications upon why we were given the life we were given? I’m not sure if there is any definitive answer to this (probably not), or this is something just left up to faith. Sometimes it’s difficult to understand why people are given such good lives while others have had nothing but suffering growing up. Fortunately, I came from a good family and couldn’t have asked for a better childhood,…sometimes feeling guilty…almost in a sense as “What have I done to deserve such a loving family” while there are other people out there who’s lives were ruined in childhood…or who weren’t given a chance at a “normal” life…or even a Catholic life. I know God has this all figured out in his divine plan…

Anyway, just a thought…
 
Regarding this passage from Jeremiah 1:5…Does this have any implications upon why we were given the life we were given? I’m not sure if there is any definitive answer to this (probably not), or this is something just left up to faith. Sometimes it’s difficult to understand why people are given such good lives while others have had nothing but suffering growing up. Fortunately, I came from a good family and couldn’t have asked for a better childhood,…sometimes feeling guilty…almost in a sense as “What have I done to deserve such a loving family” while there are other people out there who’s lives were ruined in childhood…or who weren’t given a chance at a “normal” life…or even a Catholic life. I know God has this all figured out in his divine plan…

Anyway, just a thought…
I’ve had this phrase jump out at me a couple of times. I wonder about the same thing - for reasons I’ve gone into elsewhere I think my own father is in Hell.

The reason for that is that is due to his appearing in my room the night he died. After an apology, a discussion and accusations, he disappeared but not before giving this one terrible almighty scream.

So…if we accept the above phrase, was he predestined to Hell? At one stage in the conversation, he saiid with some alarm “I always was doomed! I didn’t really have any choice!” I argued back (despite being an atheist myself at the time), saying “That can’t be right!” to which he replied, “Oh, it’s right, all right, you can see that from here.”

But later he admitted “I was WILLING!” (to do and continue doing the stupid and cruel things that condemned him). So “free” will came into it as well.

In what sense then does God “know us” in the womb? I’m afraid I struggle with that one, but in the end, we’ve all got the choice as to whether we’ll seek God and righteousness, or the devil and evil. Probably very few think they’re serving the devil per se, but the reality is if we’re not for Christ, then we’re against Him.

I think He knows everybody, in the womb. In Jeremiah’s case, He knew he’d be a prophet. God would call him to the role, and he’d accept, if somewhat reluctantly. He’d have probably have been happier if it had been someone else’s job from what I’ve read of the book. But he did it anyway.

God knew how he’d react, and whether he’d ultimately obey or not. And He would know all of us in the same way. Even my father. God knew he’d reject Christ, and go his own way. Whether God willed that is another point, one that I don’t know the answer to.

For those who suffer greatly aka “the poor” in many cases, perhaps that’s why Christ said, “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” The way I see that, when I subtract the usual rationalisation of “poor in spirit” and replace it with “poor spiritually” is that they are more likely to inherit the Kingdom of God. Their suffering will be replaced by endless joy, whereas those of us who are rich now (and a lot of Westerners are rich now compared to their third world counterparts) have had their reward already, and they won’t be getting any more.
 
Thanks for your reply Bob,…
I’m always interested in what people have to say about that verse…I find it challenging in my life, but when I turn my mind off and let God truly be God, the doubts goes away. Sometimes I feel guilty being happy in life when there’s so much suffering going on in the world…But, it literally says in the beatitudes, “BE HAPPY” Geez why is this all so confusing…:confused::confused:
 
I’ve had this phrase jump out at me a couple of times. I wonder about the same thing - for reasons I’ve gone into elsewhere I think my own father is in Hell.

The reason for that is that is due to his appearing in my room the night he died. After an apology, a discussion and accusations, he disappeared but not before giving this one terrible almighty scream.

So…if we accept the above phrase, was he predestined to Hell? At one stage in the conversation, he saiid with some alarm “I always was doomed! I didn’t really have any choice!” I argued back (despite being an atheist myself at the time), saying “That can’t be right!” to which he replied, “Oh, it’s right, all right, you can see that from here.”

But later he admitted “I was WILLING!” (to do and continue doing the stupid and cruel things that condemned him). So “free” will came into it as well.

In what sense then does God “know us” in the womb? I’m afraid I struggle with that one, but in the end, we’ve all got the choice as to whether we’ll seek God and righteousness, or the devil and evil. Probably very few think they’re serving the devil per se, but the reality is if we’re not for Christ, then we’re against Him.

I think He knows everybody, in the womb. In Jeremiah’s case, He knew he’d be a prophet. God would call him to the role, and he’d accept, if somewhat reluctantly. He’d have probably have been happier if it had been someone else’s job from what I’ve read of the book. But he did it anyway.

God knew how he’d react, and whether he’d ultimately obey or not. And He would know all of us in the same way. Even my father. God knew he’d reject Christ, and go his own way. Whether God willed that is another point, one that I don’t know the answer to.

For those who suffer greatly aka “the poor” in many cases, perhaps that’s why Christ said, “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” The way I see that, when I subtract the usual rationalisation of “poor in spirit” and replace it with “poor spiritually” is that they are more likely to inherit the Kingdom of God. Their suffering will be replaced by endless joy, whereas those of us who are rich now (and a lot of Westerners are rich now compared to their third world counterparts) have had their reward already, and they won’t be getting any more.
Reported.
 
I’ve had this phrase jump out at me a couple of times. I wonder about the same thing - for reasons I’ve gone into elsewhere I think my own father is in Hell.

The reason for that is that is due to his appearing in my room the night he died. After an apology, a discussion and accusations, he disappeared but not before giving this one terrible almighty scream.

So…if we accept the above phrase, was he predestined to Hell? At one stage in the conversation, he saiid with some alarm “I always was doomed! I didn’t really have any choice!” I argued back (despite being an atheist myself at the time), saying “That can’t be right!” to which he replied, “Oh, it’s right, all right, you can see that from here.” .
With reference to the OP question and quote, “Before I created you in the womb, I knew you”, IMHO it refers to God being pre-aware of all things over all time. BUT, importantly that in imbuing humanity with fallibility and an awareness of right and wrong AND a degree of freedom of self will, we can therefore follow good ways or bad ways - often fluctuating between the two.

God allows us as part of our humanity to make choices, ergo sum we can ‘choose’ good over evil or evil over good.

If it was your father that said what you claim in your post, it can only be down to the convoluted and distorted perceptions and ‘justifications’ endemic in such a place and state. I am curious about the nature of the ‘apology’ - because if this was an apology to you, then that apology could only be down to Divine compulsion, since ‘Hell’ does not do apologies.
 
Regarding this passage from Jeremiah 1:5…Does this have any implications upon why we were given the life we were given? I’m not sure if there is any definitive answer to this (probably not), or this is something just left up to faith. Sometimes it’s difficult to understand why people are given such good lives while others have had nothing but suffering growing up. Fortunately, I came from a good family and couldn’t have asked for a better childhood,…sometimes feeling guilty…almost in a sense as “What have I done to deserve such a loving family” while there are other people out there who’s lives were ruined in childhood…or who weren’t given a chance at a “normal” life…or even a Catholic life. I know God has this all figured out in his divine plan…

Anyway, just a thought…
I think that the quote used in your title is a self-contained statement in itself so to speak - no more, no less - and refers only to God’s foreknowledge of you as a person.

God Bless…
 
From 1 Corinthians 2:9, However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” – the things God has prepared for those who love him–

So, He knows us and knows what our chances are in life and, yet, if we love Him, He will bless us abundantly. Jesus said that He chose us, we didn’t choose Him.

Life is a bit of a mystery, but God has an intimate hand in all of our lives, I believe.
 
Regarding this passage from Jeremiah 1:5…Does this have any implications upon why we were given the life we were given? I’m not sure if there is any definitive answer to this (probably not), or this is something just left up to faith. Sometimes it’s difficult to understand why people are given such good lives while others have had nothing but suffering growing up. Fortunately, I came from a good family and couldn’t have asked for a better childhood,…sometimes feeling guilty…almost in a sense as “What have I done to deserve such a loving family” while there are other people out there who’s lives were ruined in childhood…or who weren’t given a chance at a “normal” life…or even a Catholic life. I know God has this all figured out in his divine plan…

Anyway, just a thought…
First of all the phrase in Jeremiah’s case is used to emphasise that God intended for Jeremiah to be “a prophet to the nations”. (last part of verse 5), and it needs to be read in that context.

God therefore had a special purpose for Jeremiah, even before he was born. Does the phrase therefore apply to all the other people, the great majority of whom do not seem to have a particularly significant purpose in God’s design?

As my old pastor commented, if there is a branch of philosophy that is closest to Christianity, it would be “existentialism” as “most people exist, and that’s about it”. And he was right. Approximately 150,000 people die every day around the world - how many do we even know about? Even those who died in 9/11 added an outlier of less than 2% extra for that particular day.

Does the phrase therefore apply to everyone, or only those in whom God has a specific interest? God could have made a similar comment about St. Peter, the fishermen. “Before you were born … I chose you to be an apostle to the nations, and the rock on which I will found my church.” But what about all the other fishermen who plied the shores of Galilee at the same time in history? Apart from a couple of others who became apostles with Peter, we know nothing of them. And if Christ hadn’t chosen Peter, we wouldn’t know anything about him either.

Therefore the fact someone has an important role to play in the divine economy is God’s choice, not ours. We can only respond. As Christ said, “I chose you. You didn’t choose me.”

Of those lives which might best be described as existentialist (like most of the 7 billion or so people alive today), then God’s omniscience means that He would also know them now, and when they were in the womb. But they haven’t been “consecrated … a prophet to the nations.”

God may have other plans for them, and He’d be aware of what they are. He’d also know what their own choices will be. And on that existentialist basis they’ll be judged, rich, poor or inbetween, easy life, hard life or average life. But few are called to be “prophets to the nations”. That’s God call, even though He knows everyone in the womb, before they are born.
 

God therefore had a special purpose for Jeremiah, even before he was born. **Does the phrase therefore apply to all the other people, the great majority of whom do not seem to have a particularly significant purpose in God’s design? **
Remember Little Flower, a Doctor of the Church, talking about “the little things” she did for Jesus? I think God has a specific purpose for each and every one of us. Otherwise, the great majority of us are condemned to nothingness, almost.

Jesus said, “Many who are first shall be last, and [many] who are last shall be first.”
 
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