Before I pass away?

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stcalixtus

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I pray that the Roman Catholic church and all Orthodox Christians re-unite! we are so close to being in full communion:highprayer: is it so much to ask for? forgive us for the sins of the past.We need to inspire all those who have fallen away from God, especially those that are not involved in any organized Christian religion, and they are so many these days 😦
 
Um…not to rain on your parade, but what makes you say that we are so close to reunion? Is there some new piece of amazing news on this matter that has simply gone under-reported?
 
dzheremi said:
Um…not to rain on your parade, but what makes you say that we are so close to reunion? Is there some new piece of amazing news on this matter that has simply gone under-reported?
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The Catholic church has formally approached all Orthodox Christians and the most resistance has been from the Russian orthodox church.Pope John Paul made quite an effort in this regard.So the amazing news was well published…where were you?:o I am sure if you did a search you could find info on this, I know for a fact reconciliation attempts have been made within the last 5 years.
 
Ah, attempts, yes…but these have not been successful, as I’m sure you know. I was wondering if there was some new development in terms of communion, not ecumenism.
 
I think that the late Archbishop Elias Zoghby had an excellent formula for reunion in his famous initiative (which 24 of the 26 bishops of the Melkite synod signed):
  1. I believe everything the Eastern Orthodox Church believes.
  2. I am in communion with the Bishop of Rome according to the conditions understood by the holy fathers of the first 10 centuries before the split.
If this is what the Melkite bishops believe, then I have a moral duty to be with them, as this is what I believe.

Patriarch Lubomir (who was among the papabile at the recent conclave) of the Ukraian Catholics has said similar things.
 
I would say that the Eastern Orthodox Church has way more in common right now with the Oriental Orthodox churches than with the Roman Catholic Church. Especially considering the liturgical state of the Roman Rite and the disident acts of allot of the Roman bishops towards the Pope and his liturgical renewal. Reverent Orthodox worship doesn’t go hand in hand with happy clappy Masses.
 
bkovacs said:
I would say that the Eastern Orthodox Church has way more in common right now with the Oriental Orthodox churches than with the Roman Catholic Church. Especially considering the liturgical state of the Roman Rite and the disident acts of allot of the Roman bishops towards the Pope and his liturgical renewal. Reverent Orthodox worship doesn’t go hand in hand with happy clappy Masses.
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I agree! Amen!

Personally, I hope I see true union between the OO and EO before I die. As far an union between EO and RC - whatever.
 
bkovacs said:
I would say that the Eastern Orthodox Church has way more in common right now with the Oriental Orthodox churches than with the Roman Catholic Church. Especially considering the liturgical state of the Roman Rite and the disident acts of allot of the Roman bishops towards the Pope and his liturgical renewal. Reverent Orthodox worship doesn’t go hand in hand with happy clappy Masses.
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So you’re saying that reunion should be based on our subjective feelings during Liturgy or Mass?🤷

Your viewpoint is interesting. The Syriac Orthodox and Armenian Apostolic Churches (Oriental Orthodox Churches) already have official pastoral agreements for limited intercommunion with the Catholic Church. The EO and the OO have none (except in Egypt, where the EO and CO have official limited intermarriage – but that provision is nowhere near as general as the existing ones between the CC and the OO).

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Bkovacs aspersions about the current latin schism pale by comparison to Orthodoxy’s current and ongoing schisms: Russian Orthodox Old Believers, Old Calendarists, “Synods in Resistance”, The Kyiv Patriarchate…

If the measure of a chuch is how few profound schisms it’s suffered, the Orthodox fare no better than the Catholics. But that is not a good measure.

The measure of Churchness is Apostolicity and orthodoxy to the Faith codified by the church in the Bible and in the Nicene-Constantinoplean Creed, and providing the needed praxis to enable that orthodoxis.
 
I agree that from a distance it seems like the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches are close together.

However, once you move closer, you see that there are actually some pretty wide chasms which would have to be bridged before they could be reconciled.

So don’t hold your breath. Just pray for the salvation of everyone in both churches. God will sort everything out in His own good time. 👍
 
I agree that from a distance it seems like the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches are close together.

However, once you move closer, you see that there are actually some pretty wide chasms which would have to be bridged before they could be reconciled.

So don’t hold your breath. Just pray for the salvation of everyone in both churches. God will sort everything out in His own good time. 👍
 
Dear brother wynd,
wynd said:
What about what he wrote is subjective? I saw nothing about feelings in his post.
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I can assure you, having spoken to many Latins and Protestants over many years, that there are those who believe that the “happy clappy” method of Mass is a “better” form of worship than what they perceive as the dry, spiritless routine of DL or TLM, or even a traditional NO Mass.

One group believes they are being disrespectful to God by the outward demonstrations of faith. The other group believes it is the first group who is being disrespectful to God for what they consider to be dry, spiritless worship with repetitive prayers.

Personally, I think both groups are wrong to criticize the other group. BOTH groups are focusing on externals to make their criticisms. God, on the other hand, looks at the heart. “Put on the mind of Christ” and “do not judge lest you be judged.”

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
I can assure you, having spoken to many Latins and Protestants over many years, that there are those who believe that the “happy clappy” method of Mass is a “better” form of worship than what they perceive as the dry, spiritless routine of DL or TLM, or even a traditional NO Mass.

One group believes they are being disrespectful to God by the outward demonstrations of faith. The other group believes it is the first group who is being disrespectful to God for what they consider to be dry, spiritless worship with repetitive prayers.

Personally, I think both groups are wrong to criticize the other group. BOTH groups are focusing on externals to make their criticisms. God, on the other hand, looks at the heart. “Put on the mind of Christ” and “do not judge lest you be judged.”
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I agree. But that doesn’t mean we can disregard liturgical traditions just because we feel like it.

But that is a topic for the Liturgy and Sacraments forum.
 
wynd said:
I agree. But that doesn’t mean we can disregard liturgical traditions just because we feel like it.
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So please tell us the affirmative: what are the proper criteria for changing liturgical traditions?
 
dvdjs said:
So please tell us the affirmative: what are the proper criteria for changing liturgical traditions?
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There must be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them; and care must be taken that any new forms adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing.
 
wynd said:
There must be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them; and care must be taken that any new forms adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing.
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Sounds like neither the Russian Orthodox nor the Antiochian Orthodox got that memo… the WRO is neither organic to Orthodoxy, nor of certain need.
 
wynd said:
There must be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them; and care must be taken that any new forms adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing.
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QUOTE=Aramis;5002221]Sounds like neither the Russian Orthodox nor the Antiochian Orthodox got that memo…
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Not just the WRO, but even the changes to the liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom. I suppose there might be clever ways to interpret “genuinely and certainly” “requires”, and “grow organically” to posture adherence to these criteria. But it would just be posturing.

Presumably there are some grounds between “no innovations …” and “just because we feel like it” - neither of which is based in reality.
 
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