Before i possibly embarrass myself

[Kathrin]

… i’d rather get second opinions…

Ok, simple story, the question is to avoid lying.

My Dad’s cutting cucumbers. I ask if I can have a piece. He says there may not be enough. I go get something else saying I was just thirsty anyway (cucumers are good when you’re thirsty!)

Then second thoughts. I didn’t just ask for the cucumber because I was thirsty, or hungry for that matter. Like we associate things with other things, I associate cucumbers with a place where I think they grow a lot of them, and where I happen to go on vacation next month. So asking for the cucumber was also a way of making an association, of saying: See I really like it there!

Now I didn’t say this to my Dad, because it was embarrassing. We usually don’t say such things do we? I kind of hinted at it later but I don’t think he even really listened.

In a case like this, do I have to tell my whole motivation? Is it ok to make associations like that, without wanting to say them out aloud? Since I first said I was just thirsty, did I lie?

And most of all: Do I have to go explain it all to my Dad, kind of bare my innermost reasons why I might have asked for a piece of cucumber? That would be embarrassing. But if necessary, it’s necessary. May be an exaggerated scruple thought, or a real issue. I am not sure.

Any second opinions, dare I ask?

Kathrin

 

[bilop]

… i’d rather get second opinions…

Ok, simple story, the question is to avoid lying.

My Dad’s cutting cucumbers. I ask if I can have a piece. He says there may not be enough. I go get something else saying I was just thirsty anyway (cucumers are good when you’re thirsty!)

Then second thoughts. I didn’t just ask for the cucumber because I was thirsty, or hungry for that matter. Like we associate things with other things, I associate cucumbers with a place where I think they grow a lot of them, and where I happen to go on vacation next month. So asking for the cucumber was also a way of making an association, of saying: See I really like it there!

Now I didn’t say this to my Dad, because it was embarrassing. We usually don’t say such things do we? I kind of hinted at it later but I don’t think he even really listened.

In a case like this, do I have to tell my whole motivation? Is it ok to make associations like that, without wanting to say them out aloud? Since I first said I was just thirsty, did I lie?

And most of all: Do I have to go explain it all to my Dad, kind of bare my innermost reasons why I might have asked for a piece of cucumber? That would be embarrassing. But if necessary, it’s necessary. May be an exaggerated scruple thought, or a real issue. I am not sure.

Any second opinions, dare I ask?

Kathrin

Definitely no. We can’t explain all our motivations all the time, it’s just not practical.

This is nowhere close to lying. You’re being scrupulous. Perhaps you should discuss it with your pastor or confessor, if you have these issues often.

God Bless

 

[JPUSC]

… i’d rather get second opinions…

Ok, simple story, the question is to avoid lying.

My Dad’s cutting cucumbers. I ask if I can have a piece. He says there may not be enough. I go get something else saying I was just thirsty anyway (cucumers are good when you’re thirsty!)

Then second thoughts. I didn’t just ask for the cucumber because I was thirsty, or hungry for that matter. Like we associate things with other things, I associate cucumbers with a place where I think they grow a lot of them, and where I happen to go on vacation next month. So asking for the cucumber was also a way of making an association, of saying: See I really like it there!

Now I didn’t say this to my Dad, because it was embarrassing. We usually don’t say such things do we? I kind of hinted at it later but I don’t think he even really listened.

In a case like this, do I have to tell my whole motivation? Is it ok to make associations like that, without wanting to say them out aloud? Since I first said I was just thirsty, did I lie?

And most of all: Do I have to go explain it all to my Dad, kind of bare my innermost reasons why I might have asked for a piece of cucumber? That would be embarrassing. But if necessary, it’s necessary. May be an exaggerated scruple thought, or a real issue. I am not sure.

Any second opinions, dare I ask?

Kathrin

LOL, why wouldn’t he give you a little piece?

 

[baltobetsy]

Kathrin, good on you for catching yourself being scrupulous! There’s not even a hint of a lie here.

You know, the richness of our human communication is that it is so full of layers of meaning. Part of the charm of it is the mystery. You say something that has more than one layer of meaning, and some people get only what’s on the surface, some people get some of it, and only God really gets it all. Even we don’t always fully understand what we are saying. And it’s all OK.

Your dad got the surface meaning of your request for a piece of cucumber. You got at least two layers of it. You put it out there, and he didn’t get the second layer. You have no obligation to beat him over the head with the full meaning of what you say. If we all did that, our life would be dull indeed, and we would be casting aside that marvelous gift of complexity that God gives us in our language.

Betsy

 

[Kathrin]

Bilop - thanks. If it sounds scrupulous, then it probably is. And yes I do have these issues and I have talked about it with priests before, which has always been helpful.

JPUSC - Actually he did give me TWO little pieces when he started slicing the cucumbers. He just said at first that there might not be enough for the salad because we had guests for dinner, AND because it is so typicla of me to ask for a little piece of something.
Oops do I now also have to feel guilty about slandering my Dad? Just kidding. And then “LOL” could be seen as a lie too, because hardly anybody is really rolling on the floor laughing.

 

[baltobetsy]

Oops do I now also have to feel guilty about slandering my Dad? Just kidding. And then “LOL” could be seen as a lie too, because hardly anybody is really rolling on the floor laughing.

Glad you can laugh at yourself! And it would not be slander, but detraction. But it’s really NEITHER!!!

Betsy

 

[Kathrin]

Did I confuse the words even though you tried to teach me?

But I think I meant slander because I didn’t mention that he finally did give me two little pieces (sounds like I am a doggie) .

Yeah laughing at myself feels ok I guess.

Today was not such a good day. But I still feel generally it’s better.

 

[RosaryFan]

… i’d rather get second opinions…

Ok, simple story, the question is to avoid lying.

My Dad’s cutting cucumbers. I ask if I can have a piece. He says there may not be enough. I go get something else saying I was just thirsty anyway (cucumers are good when you’re thirsty!)

Then second thoughts. I didn’t just ask for the cucumber because I was thirsty, or hungry for that matter. Like we associate things with other things, I associate cucumbers with a place where I think they grow a lot of them, and where I happen to go on vacation next month. So asking for the cucumber was also a way of making an association, of saying: See I really like it there!

Now I didn’t say this to my Dad, because it was embarrassing. We usually don’t say such things do we? I kind of hinted at it later but I don’t think he even really listened.

In a case like this, do I have to tell my whole motivation? Is it ok to make associations like that, without wanting to say them out aloud? Since I first said I was just thirsty, did I lie?

And most of all: Do I have to go explain it all to my Dad, kind of bare my innermost reasons why I might have asked for a piece of cucumber? That would be embarrassing. But if necessary, it’s necessary. May be an exaggerated scruple thought, or a real issue. I am not sure.

Any second opinions, dare I ask?

Kathrin

You are overthinking this waaaaaaaaay too much and you are definitly too scrupulous! I don’t think you need to say anything to your father. Heavens! If we all said what was exactly on our minds to all the people all the time, there would never be a moment of silence in our lives!

 

[ready]

… i’d rather get second opinions…

Ok, simple story, the question is to avoid lying.

My Dad’s cutting cucumbers. I ask if I can have a piece. He says there may not be enough. I go get something else saying I was just thirsty anyway (cucumers are good when you’re thirsty!)

Then second thoughts. I didn’t just ask for the cucumber because I was thirsty, or hungry for that matter. Like we associate things with other things, I associate cucumbers with a place where I think they grow a lot of them, and where I happen to go on vacation next month. So asking for the cucumber was also a way of making an association, of saying: See I really like it there!

Now I didn’t say this to my Dad, because it was embarrassing. We usually don’t say such things do we? I kind of hinted at it later but I don’t think he even really listened.

In a case like this, do I have to tell my whole motivation? Is it ok to make associations like that, without wanting to say them out aloud? Since I first said I was just thirsty, did I lie?

And most of all: Do I have to go explain it all to my Dad, kind of bare my innermost reasons why I might have asked for a piece of cucumber? That would be embarrassing. But if necessary, it’s necessary. May be an exaggerated scruple thought, or a real issue. I am not sure.

Any second opinions, dare I ask?

Kathrin

If you weren’t deliberately trying to deceive your father in saying what you said then you weren’t lying and I wouldn’t worry about it. If you feel you were deliberately trying to decieve him then tell your father about your true reason with a sorry smile.

 

[Kathrin]

If you weren’t deliberately trying to deceive your father in saying what you said then you weren’t lying and I wouldn’t worry about it. If you feel you were deliberately trying to decieve him then tell your father about your true reason with a sorry smile.

Was I trying to deceive my Dad?
Here’s about how my mind tries to answer this question:
(Sorry, my mind can get quite technical)

I wasn’t deliberately, consciously trying to deceive him. It went so fast anyway.
Or was I??
Thing thing about just being thirsty I also said so he wouldn’t feel bad about not having enough cucumbers. My real message was: “No it’s ok I’m sorry I don’t need a piece.”
But the reason behind asking for the cucumer piece was also the association with the place I want to go to. And having to tell that to my Dad (“you know, I really asked for the cucumber piece because I wanted you to make that assoociation too”) would be quite embarrassing.
So, maybe I also, consciously or subconsciously, I said the thirsty thing, because I didn’t want to go into that whole association thing, because it would be too embarrassing and also complicated, not something you can really put into words somehow. So does that mean I was trying to deceive him?
On the other hand, I WAS thirsty.
I saw him starting to prepare the cucumbers and my mind may have gone something like this: Nice, cucumbers, I could ask for a piece, my Dad knows they grow cucumbers where I’m going and maybe he’ll make the association too and feel my connection to that place more. Weird thought, not easy to put into words. Not something I would say to my Dad, because either he makes the association or not, if I say it in so many words it’s not the same.
I WAS also thirsty. I DO also like to have a piece of juicy cucumber when I am thirsty.
Then my Dad said there may not be enough.
I regretted having asked (as I said, I ask often when I happen to be there when somebody cuts vegetables or something) and didn’t want him to feel bad. I said “I was just thirsty anyway, I can also take a strawberry from the refrigerator or drink some water.”

Then I started thinking about, did I lie?
I actually did correct myself, I said something like “you know I wasn’t really just thirsty if I had been just thirsty I should have just drank some water.”
I don’t know if he was listening because I don’t think it mattered to him, and we were several people and I think noise going on.
I even started talking to my aunt who was there too about our upcoming trip so that I had the opportunity to say “ha they have cucumbers there (smile) that’s why I wanted some cucumber too” But since I was embarrassed it was more like a joke, and my Dad was concentrating on the cooking so I am not sure if he heard it.

So did I deceive him?
Consciously?
Was I really thirsty?
Do I have to explain the association thing to him even though if put into words it might sound really weird?
It’s a weird thought anyway somehow. Not easy to explain. A kind of wanting other people to make the same associations I do without telling them. Do we all do that? Kind of talking without so many words? Is it bad? Is it deceiving?

Ok, maybe I don’t have to tell everything that’s on my mind.
But then since then I said “I was just thristy” that may have turned the whole thing into a lie. Even though I was thristy, if I remember right. But not “JUST” nthirsty. The phrase meant: “Don’t worry I don’t really need a piece there were other reasons I asked for the piece”. But having to tell all the reasons would be really weird.
Yikes, see that’s how my mind works.
So was I deceiving?
Ok, and if I was, was my kind of mentioning it later already enough clarification? Or was I deceiving again, because since I was embarrassed it probably sounded more like a joke, and my Dad may have been too concentrated on the cooking to really take it in.

Just forget about it?
Or start it again? Bare the way my mind works to my Dad?

Kathrin

 

[baltobetsy]

Just forget about it?

YES!!!

Betsy

 

[ready]

Sometimes we semi-voluntarily say things on the spur of the moment that make us feel confused and guilty afterwards because we have a delicate conscious or are scrupulous We do our best to answer a question but sometimes our response isn’t quite good enough. It sounds like you were trying to be nice to your father without having to reveal anything more on the subject of the cucumbers. You then tried to clarify your response but felt like it was still an act of deception because of your having elaborated jokingly - I think that’s what you said, anyway. Two things you can do now is you can forget about the incident or you can evaluate the way you speak to your father and decide if more straightfowardness is more desirable in the future - or maybe it was a freak thing only that can happen to all of us sometime or another. I think you should do both. I don’t think you were trying to be dishonest with your father but in the end it may have been somewhat of a distortion, as you now feel guilt over it. We usually only feel guilt when we feel we may have been unfaithful to God, ourselves and/or others. Here’s an example for you: One girl who is always so nosy and gossipy (I try to avoid her) asked me my feelings about a friar. What sort of question is this is she asking me?! Of course I can not speak anything harmful. I anwered the question to the best of my ability at the time but didn’t get to answer the question the exact way I wanted to in order that I may protect the friar community and myself (like you did, you tried protecting your father and yourself). After I said what I said I knew it was a most definite over-estimation of whomever I was thinking of (if it even was the right friar I was thinking of). On the spur of the moment, that was the best answer I could come up with. I wasn’t totally satisfied with it, but I didn’t want anyone hurt and that’s all I could say on the spot. The woman gossips and I wouldn’t want her to spread around town unfavorable words or tell the friar anything unfavorable. I did my best and avoid people like that so things like that don’t happen. With you: try to be as straightforward as possible with as much charity as possible. If you fail a lot and feel dishonest with God a lot in conversations, get a spiritual director to help you. You sound very consciencious. If you are faithful to God in your normal everyday activities there shouldn’t be need for major alarm. Just make perfect love and honesty your goal always.

 

[Kathrin]

A friend of mine has said that the way I overanalyze language, language doesn’t work anymore. Meaning it makes things more complicated instead of simpler. Well. I have heard or read somewhere that we lie I don’t remember how many times every day, without really being aware of it.

I become aware of little maybe-lies often.

Two examples of today: I told somebody I I am working at this place this month, afterwards I don’t know.
Ok that is true, I may be working at the same place or at a different place or I don’t know where, so that was true. BUT I did know that I am also going on vacation next month. So that I DID know. Only didn’t mention it. Maybe in order not to make since complicated or in any way disquiet that person. However I had mentioned it before. I then made sure I said “oh and when I’m on vacation next month I’ll send you guys a postcard”. Still I somehow had the feeling I had said something wrong.

Later today, in the evening after mass, I thought about asking the priest about something I had missed at mass. But wasn’t sure should I ask or not. He came out of the church and went on his way home, by foot. I stood further down the street by the corner and still wasn’t sure should I ask or not. I kind of played around with my cellphone because I didn’t want him to see that I am wavering. So somehow I deceived him. Is something like this lying too? And is it worse when it’s a priest??

Kathrin

 

[Cristiano]

Kathrin overall you did nothing wrong and cut yourself some slack. However, next time tell your dad the truth. It would be a gift to him. As a parent I know how it is important to me when my child shares this kind of thoughts. By exposing our inner selves we show vulnerability and thus trust in the parent. This is what relationships are about. Show your love.

 

[baltobetsy]

Kathrin, your scruples have deceived you into thinking that you are not permitted to have any privacy at all in your thoughts. That you leave no motive unexpressed. That you omit not a single tiny detail of your thoughts and feelings when you say anything.

Does that sound like something you would require of someone else? Would that be reasonable, fair or kind? No, it would not be. And it is not being asked of you, either.

Betsy

 

[ready]

A friend of mine has said that the way I overanalyze language, language doesn’t work anymore. Meaning it makes things more complicated instead of simpler. Well. I have heard or read somewhere that we lie I don’t remember how many times every day, without really being aware of it.

I become aware of little maybe-lies often.

Two examples of today: I told somebody I I am working at this place this month, afterwards I don’t know.
Ok that is true, I may be working at the same place or at a different place or I don’t know where, so that was true. BUT I did know that I am also going on vacation next month. So that I DID know. Only didn’t mention it. Maybe in order not to make since complicated or in any way disquiet that person. However I had mentioned it before. I then made sure I said “oh and when I’m on vacation next month I’ll send you guys a postcard”. Still I somehow had the feeling I had said something wrong.

Later today, in the evening after mass, I thought about asking the priest about something I had missed at mass. But wasn’t sure should I ask or not. He came out of the church and went on his way home, by foot. I stood further down the street by the corner and still wasn’t sure should I ask or not. I kind of played around with my cellphone because I didn’t want him to see that I am wavering. So somehow I deceived him. Is something like this lying too? And is it worse when it’s a priest??

Kathrin

Don’t worry. As long as you are not deliberately trying to deceive a person with intent to leave them in error, it’s a natural part of life to answer a question one way one minute and answer the same question completely opposite because you construe the question differently the second time. Sometimes we say things that seem to contradict our previous statements but they really don’t.

I think you should just be o.k. with the way you dress. If you are dressed unchastely at any time, just change in to proper attire. But if you didn’t like your clothers that day with the priest because you felt they were ugly or unbecoming, don’t care what people think about your clothes or just walk in the opposite direction to avoid him. No need for theatre! - Though I’m sure most of us, if not all of us, have done something like that before.) Then you don’t have to worry about not acting naturally around people when you’re not dressed the way you really like. You made the appearance that you were busy to avoid talking with the priest - not a mortal sin. Maybe just an imperfection due to self-sonsciousness. Just try and be sincere with all your actions and don’t put up appearances if you can. If you turned the other way and walked in a different direction when you saw the priest to avoid him, maybe you would have felt better because you wouldn’t have been pretending anything, you would have just been outright avoiding him.