Before the reading of the Gospel

[FidesSpesCarita]

Immediately after the priest says “The Lord be with you” and the congregation says “And also with you”, the priest and the congregation makes the sign of the cross on the forehead, lips and chest.

My question is: is this spelled out in the rubrics?

The GIRM instructions for a Mass without a deacon says this:

1. At the ambo, the priest opens the book and, with hands joined, says, Dominus vobiscum (The Lord be with you), and the people respond, Et cum spiritu tuo (And also with you). Then he says, Lectio sancti Evangelii (A reading from the holy gospel), making the sign of the cross with his thumb on the book and on his forehead, mouth, and breast, which everyone else does as well. The people say the acclamation Gloria tibi, Domine (Glory to you, Lord). The priest incenses the book, if incense is used (cf. below, nos. 276-277). Then he proclaims the Gospel and at the end says the acclamation Verbum Domini (The gospel of the Lord), to which all respond, Laus tibi, Christe (Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ). The priest kisses the book, saying quietly, Per evangelica dicta (May the words of the gospel).

But for a Mass WITH a deacon it says

1. If incense is used, the deacon assists the priest when he puts incense in the thurible during the singing of the Alleluia or other chant. Then he makes a profound bow before the priest and asks for the blessing, saying in a low voice, Iube, domine, benedicere (Father, give me your blessing). The priest blesses him, saying, Dominus sit in corde tuo (The Lord be in your heart). The deacon signs himself with the Sign of the Cross and responds, Amen. Having bowed to the altar, he then takes up the Book of the Gospels which was placed upon it. He proceeds to the ambo, carrying the book slightly elevated. He is preceded by a thurifer, carrying a thurible with smoking incense, and by servers with lighted candles. There the deacon, with hands joined, greets the people, saying, Dominus vobiscum (The Lord be with you). Then, at the words Lectio sancti Evangelii (A reading from the holy gospel), he signs the book with his thumb and, afterwards, himself on his forehead, mouth, and breast. He incenses the book and proclaims the Gospel reading. When the reading is concluded, he says the acclamation Verbum Domini (The gospel of the Lord), and all respond, Laus tibi, Christe (Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ). He then venerates the book with a kiss, saying privately, Per evangelica dicta (May the words of the gospel), and returns to the priest’s side.

Does anyone have any better info on this that they could pass on?

Preferably with links to primary sources.

TIA,

FSC

 

[laszlo]

This is the inline rubrics from the New Translation of the Mass, very similar to the inline rubrics of the 1920 Missal

The Deacon, or the Priest:
A reading from the holy Gospel according to N.
and, at the same time, he makes the Sign of the Cross on the book and on his forehead, lips, and breast.
The people acclaim:
Glory to you, O Lord.

nccbuscc.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf

Then turning to the Gospel side of the altar, the priest says:
V. The Lord be with you
R. And with thy spirit
He then traces the Sign of the Cross, first upon the altar or the book, and then upon his forehead, lips, and breast, and says:
The beginning of the holy Gospel according …

When I was little child I learned from my grandfather that while I sign myself I say

I understand this with my mind, I acclaim this with my lips, and I carve this into my heart.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

This is the inline rubrics from the New Translation of the Mass, very similar to the inline rubrics of the 1920 Missal

The Deacon, or the Priest:
A reading from the holy Gospel according to N.
and, at the same time, he makes the Sign of the Cross on the book and on his forehead, lips, and breast.
The people acclaim:
Glory to you, O Lord.

nccbuscc.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf

Then turning to the Gospel side of the altar, the priest says:
V. The Lord be with you
R. And with thy spirit
He then traces the Sign of the Cross, first upon the altar or the book, and then upon his forehead, lips, and breast, and says:
The beginning of the holy Gospel according …

When I was little child I learned from my grandfather that while I sign myself I say

I understand this with my mind, I acclaim this with my lips, and I carve this into my heart.

So, it is not in the rubric for the congregation to follow suit? (Not saying that I feel it is wrong, just not in the rubrics.)

It is my understanding that it is not in the rubric for the people to do the same (forehead lips, breast) but that it has become so ubiquitous that it should be followed. Somewhat akin to the way europeans are somewhat astonished the first time they see a parish priest preceded by the Crucifix since in most of the rest of the world only Bishops have that privilege.

 

[laszlo]

So, it is not in the rubric for the congregation to follow suit? (Not saying that I feel it is wrong, just not in the rubrics.)

It is my understanding that it is not in the rubric for the people to do the same (forehead lips, breast) but that it has become so ubiquitous that it should be followed. Somewhat akin to the way europeans are somewhat astonished the first time they see a parish priest preceded by the Crucifix since in most of the rest of the world only Bishops have that privilege.

Here is the GIRM (the EWTN claims this is for the universal Church)

Introductory Rites

1. Once the congregation has gathered, the priest and the ministers, clad in their vestments, go to the altar in this order:

a. a server with a lighted censer, if incense is used;

b. the servers, who, according to the occasion, carry lighted candles, and between them the cross-bearer, if the cross is to be carried;

c. acolytes and other ministers;

d. a reader, who may carry the Book of the Gospels;

e. the priest who is to celebrate the Mass.

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/GIRM.HTM

Yes, there is no rubrics for the triple cross of the faithful, that is only tradition. In the good old times there were no rubrics for the laity at all, they were considered spectators only.

 

[Barbkw]

youtube.com/user/EWTN#p/u/97/pxXXSoTDn58

Cursur over to 19:30.

I heard this Gospel Prayer on the Journey Home.

Former Presbyterian, Denise Bossert was teaching at a Catholic gradeschool and a Brother explained to her what Catholics were doing (by jesture and in prayer) before hearing the Gospel.

“May this story of our Lord’s life, death and Resurrection
stay on our mind and on our lips
that we may be quick to share it with others
and may it be on our hearts
to burn with the Holy Zeal.”

I wish our parish would project that Gospel prayer up on the wall so that everyone could learn this beautiful prayer.

 

[FrDavid96]

So, it is not in the rubric for the congregation to follow suit? (Not saying that I feel it is wrong, just not in the rubrics.)

It is my understanding that it is not in the rubric for the people to do the same (forehead lips, breast) but that it has become so ubiquitous that it should be followed. Somewhat akin to the way europeans are somewhat astonished the first time they see a parish priest preceded by the Crucifix since in most of the rest of the world only Bishops have that privilege.

It took me a while to understand the question.

Just to be sure, are you asking the following:

There are different rubrics for the congregation (at that point) for a Mass with a deacon versus a Mass without a deacon? Is that it?

If that’s indeed the question, the answer is that the congregation does the same thing (same action) regardless of whether a priest or a deacon proclaims the Gospel. As far as the action is concerned, there’s no difference.

Those particular sections of the GIRM are meant to provide rubrics for the priest or for the deacon. That’s the distinction being made–not a distinction for what the congregation does. Paragraph 175 (with a deacon) is only intended to provide directions for the deacon. The fact that the clause “which everyone else does as well” is absent doesn’t mean that the congregation does-not-do-this when the deacon proclaims the Gospel–it just means that it isn’t necessary to repeat the same directions for the laity in that particular paragraph which addresses the deacon’s actions.

If it was indeed the intention of the Church to say that the actions of the congregation are different when a deacon proclaims compared to when a priest proclaims, such a distinction would have been clearly made–which it is not.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

It took me a while to understand the question.

Just to be sure, are you asking the following:

There are different rubrics for the congregation (at that point) for a Mass with a deacon versus a Mass without a deacon? Is that it?

If that’s indeed the question, the answer is that the congregation does the same thing (same action) regardless of whether a priest or a deacon proclaims the Gospel. As far as the action is concerned, there’s no difference.

Those particular sections of the GIRM are meant to provide rubrics for the priest or for the deacon. That’s the distinction being made–not a distinction for what the congregation does. Paragraph 175 (with a deacon) is only intended to provide directions for the deacon. The fact that the clause “which everyone else does as well” is absent doesn’t mean that the congregation does-not-do-this when the deacon proclaims the Gospel–it just means that it isn’t necessary to repeat the same directions for the laity in that particular paragraph which addresses the deacon’s actions.

If it was indeed the intention of the Church to say that the actions of the congregation are different when a deacon proclaims compared to when a priest proclaims, such a distinction would have been clearly made–which it is not.

My question is more, “Is it mandated that the laity make the sign of the cross in a similar manner to the priest?”

This is just an academic issue for me, not anything very important. I am just having a hard time finding the correct answer.

 

[FrDavid96]

My question is more, “Is it mandated that the laity make the sign of the cross in a similar manner to the priest?”

This is just an academic issue for me, not anything very important. I am just having a hard time finding the correct answer.

The answer is YES. The laity still make the 3 crosses, regardless of whether the Gospel is being proclaimed by a priest or a deacon. The only difference, of course, is that the laity don’t make the cross on the actual book.