Before we were born.

[latin_rite]

Is there a passage in the OT or NT. Which states or indicates, that God considers us to have a soul or to even be in existence.
I recall. a passage where God or Jesus said. I knew you before you was born. Or something to that effect. Any help much appreciated.

 

[MarkThompson]

Is there a passage in the OT or NT. Which states or indicates, that God considers us to have a soul or to even be in existence.
I recall. a passage where God or Jesus said. I knew you before you was born. Or something to that effect. Any help much appreciated.

You’re thinking of Jeremiah 1:5, I believe:

[BIBLEDRB]Jeremiah 1:5[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[latin_rite]

Is there a passage in the OT or NT. Which states or indicates, that God considers us to have a soul or to even be in existence.
I recall. a passage where God or Jesus said. I knew you before you was born. Or something to that effect. Any help much appreciated.

Thanks for the response mark. Even though i messed up my post. It should have read
“Is there a passage in the OT or NT. Which states or indicates, that God considers us to have a soul or to even be in existence. Before we were born.”

 

[FaustinaClare]

I’ve always wondered that myself. I’ve heard other people seem to think that since our souls were made by God to be eternal with him that we have always existed and will always exist in soul form. Only our physical bodies are temporary. I wasn’t sure what to think of that myself but whatever the Church decrees I’ll believe. It is kind of a nice thought, though, to think that we existed with God or at least in His mind before we were even born.

I know some people who have had NDE’s state that once they were in the "light’ that they were told their souls had always existed. Now I know they can’t be used as evidence since they are so controversial but it makes you wonder

 

[Azurestone]

Pre-existent souls is a heresy. Origen was condemned at the fifth ecumenical council in 553 for this reason, which happens to be why he will never be named a saint.

 

[otjm]

It (the pre-existing soul) is also part of LDS religious beliefs. Not a path a faithful Catholic would want to go down.

We are humans, living in a world; we experience almost everything in terms of time. Time is a measure of change.

As God is unchanging, and outside of time (there is no such thing as time with God; all is present), when we try to speak of God, we do so in the words and images we know and understand - those of time and change. Right there we have a problem, as we are using “time” language to describe something which has no concept of time. When, however, we try to ascribe something to God, we are too often stuck with our “time” language, which does not adequately express what we are trying to say about God.

As God is outside of time, and therefore, all things (events, if you will) are present to God at once all together, then we can say that God knew us “from the beginning”. But with God, there is no “beginning”, as all is at once present to Him.

So when we read Scripture, we need to remember, when Scripture speaks of God, that we can end up “anthropomorphising” God, as if He were some person in time with us, as if He were “learning about us” as we aged. Not so. Scripture speaks truth (and Truth), but we can easily fall into a trap of putting God “into” time, as if He had a past, and a present, and a future. God has no past, present and future; He revealed Himself as the great I AM to Moses. Alas, Scripture, and human language, is constrained to use the words and concepts we know - which are “time” oriented and related, in trying to speak of something that is not time related.

 

[Vico]

Is there a passage in the OT or NT. Which states or indicates, that God considers us to have a soul or to even be in existence.
I recall. a passage where God or Jesus said. I knew you before you was born. Or something to that effect. Any help much appreciated.

There are some to show one life, and raising of the dead to the same body.

.aspcatholic****reincarnation

Hebrews 9:27 In this plain passage we read “as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.”
2 Kings 4:35-36 Elisha raised the woman from the dead, as the same person.

Mark 5:35-43 Jesus raised the woman from the dead, as the same person.
Luke 7:11-18 Jesus raised the young man from the dead, as the same person.
John 11:43-44 Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, as the same person.
Acts 9:36-43 Peter raised Dorcus from the dead, as the same person.
Acts 20:9-12 Eutychus was restored, as the same person.

 

[newyorkcatholic]

According to the Church, our souls are created in time, not pre-existing. However we DID always exist in the Mind of God, since every single created thing was always in the Mind of God … since is unchanging/eternal and omniscient.

 

[otjm]

According to the Church, our souls are created in time, not pre-existing. However we DID always exist in the Mind of God, since every single created thing was always in the Mind of God … since is unchanging/eternal and omniscient.

It might be better to say we do exist in the mind of God; using “did” gets back to time issues, which in turn lead people to think of “God in time”. Using “did” is as if God sees us in a sequence of events; rather, He sees us in a continuum; all things (our non-existence before creation, our creation, life, death, judgment) are as “at once”.

 

[Brendan]

Pre-existing souls is a heresy. It follows a Platonic thought which incorrectly places the ‘personhood’ of someone as their soul.

That is not a Catholic understanding. We are a union of soul and body, the joining of the two. The body is not simply a shell for our soul\person, but is integral to our personhood.

That is why Resurrection of the body is so important that it is even part of our Creed. It means that we were in Heaven as the people we are.

God knows us before we were born simply because God knows All, past present and future.

He created us at the time when a the matter of our parent’s union united to form a new body, animated by a new soul.

 

[newyorkcatholic]

It might be better to say we do exist in the mind of God; using “did” gets back to time issues, which in turn lead people to think of “God in time”. Using “did” is as if God sees us in a sequence of events; rather, He sees us in a continuum; all things (our non-existence before creation, our creation, life, death, judgment) are as “at once”.

Thank you for the correction. Of course I didn’t mean to say we were in the mind of God in the past, but that even when we did not exist, we were still in the mind of God, as we are and always will be, outside of time. I worded it poorly.

thanks

 

[otjm]

Thank you for the correction. Of course I didn’t mean to say we were in the mind of God in the past, but that even when we did not exist, we were still in the mind of God, as we are and always will be, outside of time. I worded it poorly.

thanks

Not trying to pick. It is extremely difficult to not trip over “time” language, as that is how we think.

 

[rwoehmke]

If I decide to build, say a chair, or make a pie, it exists in my mind and I “know” it before it is in fact physically present. Not?

 

[otjm]

If I decide to build, say a chair, or make a pie, it exists in my mind and I “know” it before it is in fact physically present. Not?

Maybe Plato would agree with you, as you have a universal pie or chair in your mind. However, you do not have the pie or chair you will make in the future in your mind, but rather an image of what it will be like. Not exactly so, but recognizably so.

 

[FirstCalled]

That passage is specifically referring to the particular prophet. It is common for Pro-Life advocates to use this passage to show that we are human beings with a soul at conception, not before.
We exist from conception, not before. God is eternal, we were created at a specific time/place. Being that he is within all time, at the same time, HE knows about us from, well, forever in our terms, but we do have a specific time of creation.

 

[callmeChris]

Here is one that I have loved so much that I even have it on my signature
The spirit of God made me, and the breath of the Almighty gave me life.-Job 33:4