Beginner question- Greek Orthodoxy

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I have been to Moscow a couple of times and St.Petersburg. My father is a priest so when he gets to go I tag along. Yes, a lot of people have very weird views of Russia.Russia is not the enemy as a lot of people think. I dont watch American news ( Fox, CNN,etc) I watch RT which is Russian news and world in English. The sad thing is they report more stories that you would not know by watching Fox, CNN, etc 👍
 
To me it seems like this “the Orthodox Church is tied to the government” thing is a canard employed by people who don’t know (enough) about Orthodoxy, and hence can’t approach it on its own merits. To read it from Roman Catholics is especially funny. I’m not meaning to insinuate anything about the current relationship between the Roman Catholic Church and the government of Italy, but reading up about the history of Church-State relations in the West should put to bed any idea that the Western Church has any higher ground to stand on, just because it is not connected to any particular national polity…nevermind the fact that it totally is: the French direct order of protection over the Maronites in Lebanon, for instance, or the traditional privileges of the RCC in Mexico leading to things like the War of Reform (as some felt the RCC had too much direct control over politics and education in the country, as well as being angered by the Church’s massive landholdings in a country in which so many were impoverished, landless peasants). And just as there are plenty of cases wherein the stereotypical Roman Catholic criticism of the Orthodox Church would actually also apply quite readily to the RCC itself, there are also plenty of cases wherein the stereotypical RC criticism of the Orthodox Church absolutely does not apply: Egypt, for instance, was never terribly kind to the native (Egyptian) Orthodox Church, save perhaps for a bit of time in which an OO-sympathetic empress, Empress Theodora, was able to exercise influence on Byzantine policy, and some relatively random (and ultimately quite inconsequential) charm offensives undertaken by Muslim rulers generally as part of pursuing some other policy generally quite unrelated to actually bettering the lives of Christians in particular, like when Nasser witnessed the apparition of St. Mary in Zeitoun in the 1960s and was moved to treat the Copts a little better in the context of building a pan-Arabist state that the Copts would otherwise be seen as a very real obstacle to (their numbers may be small and they may be marginalized, but their mere existence is a thorn in the side of both pan-Arabists and pan-Islamists, as they are neither). Similar stories could be told of the Orthodox Church in Syria (either varieties; the Islamists currently fighting to establish an Islamic state there certainly don’t discriminate, and more importantly, neither did past non-secular governments), or in the Orthodox Church in Albania (how do you think they fared as subjects of an officially atheistic state, or earlier as one tributary of the Ottoman Empire?), etc. It is certainly a mistake to think that because a church is organized along geographic lines (which has always been the case, by the way; note that St. Paul’s epistles are by and large written to the Church at a particular place: Corinth, Rome, Galatia, etc.) and may have a name that reflects that historical fact, then that means that the Church and the State are particularly close. This is true whether we’re talking about national/native Catholic or Orthodox churches…it’s probably just as terrible to be a Chaldean Catholic in Iraq right now as it is to be a Syriac Catholic or a Syriac Orthodox…or a Nestorian, for that matter… 😦

Let’s stop all this silliness.
 
Anybody who says the difference between Catholicism and Orthodoxy is merely political and not theological does not know anything about Orthodox theology.
 
to me it seems like this “the orthodox church is tied to the government” thing is a canard employed by people who don’t know (enough) about orthodoxy, and hence can’t approach it on its own merits. …let’s stop all this silliness.
PREACH! lol
 
The Catholic Church permits her faithful to receive Holy Communion in an Orthodox Church when they are unable to attend a Catholic Church; however, the Orthodox Church does not generally admit non-Orthodox to Holy Communion.
RyanBlack;9993270:
Both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox have basically the same beliefs about the Eucharist (although the Orthodox do not use the term “transubstantiation”), but are not in communion with each other, and are not in agreement on some matters of the faith. For these reasons, the Orthodox generally do not admit non-Orthodox to Holy Communion.
Following up from the explanation, should be grateful if more information can be given on this.

(a) Which Orthodox Church allows Catholics to receive communions with them and which don’t?

(b) Granted that both Orthodox and Catholic have about the same belief in the Eucharist that the latter is able to permit her faithful to receive Holy Communion in an Orthodox Church. What is noted here is the Catholic Church has made an exemption to allow her faithful to receive Holy Communion in a church that is not in communion with her – a serious factor that she is willing to overlook since a matter of communion is always a basis for sharing of Holy Communion. What difference in the belief about the Eucharist of the Catholic Church for the Orthodox Church to deny Catholics to Holy Communion or is it entirely because of them not in communion?

Thanks.
 
(a) Which Orthodox Church allows Catholics to receive communions with them and which don’t?
None of them do. To the extent that you might find otherwise, it is in response to pastoral need (e.g., there is no Catholic Church within X miles, as could be the case in some isolated areas of predominately Orthodox countries), not establishing any kind of precedent outside of those particular circumstances.
(b) What difference in the belief about the Eucharist of the Catholic Church for the Orthodox Church to deny Catholics to Holy Communion or is it entirely because of them not in communion?
Non-Orthodox may not commune in Orthodox churches because for the Orthodox, communion is visible evidence of unity of faith shared by all communicants; we share the chalice because we share the faith. If you do not confess the faith as we do (including getting baptized into the Orthodox Church), there is no way that we can commune with you.
 
None of them do. To the extent that you might find otherwise, it is in response to pastoral need (e.g., there is no Catholic Church within X miles, as could be the case in some isolated areas of predominately Orthodox countries), not establishing any kind of precedent outside of those particular circumstances.

Non-Orthodox may not commune in Orthodox churches because for the Orthodox, communion is visible evidence of unity of faith shared by all communicants; we share the chalice because we share the faith. If you do not confess the faith as we do (including getting baptized into the Orthodox Church), there is no way that we can commune with you.
Thanks. 🙂 That would leave me with one more question - for the Catholic Church to answer.
 
Ok, so we’ve established that the political alignment of the Orthodox Churches is misunderstood and not really a barrier to unification.

I’d like to refocus on the real theological differences between the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox. It seems to me that the Catholic Church views these theological differences as being minor enough to permit Orthodox faithful to receive communion, but for the Orthodox, Catholics are not welcome to partake. By no means am I criticizing the decision of the Orthodox Church to limit participation; the Catholic Church maintains that same expectation of most other Christian denominations (in fact, none other than Orthodox come to mind). All I’m suggesting is that the differences in theology are viewed differently by Churches that the authorities of the Churches would come to such different conclusions whether or not we share communion.

I know papal primacy/infallibility and the filioque are two issues that are often discussed, but very little would really change on a practical level if a congregation of Orthodox believers decided to become a part of the Catholic Church. In general, I have the impression that Orthodox faithful tend to be better catechized and more devout that Catholics. Maybe that’s just because the ones who talk about it are the ones who take it seriously? Or is this really the case? If so, what can the Catholic Church learn from the Orthodox about catechesis to improve our own?

Can someone explain the difference between excommunication and anethema(sp?) please?
 
It seems to me that the Catholic Church views these theological differences as being minor enough to permit Orthodox faithful to receive communion, …
That will answer my question for the time being. 🙂
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vluvski:
If so, what can the Catholic Church learn from the Orthodox about catechesis to improve our own?
There is always something positive that we can learn from our counterparts in other religions. We can always admire their strong point that we lack in our own. I think one of the reasons for being weak in our catechesis is simply because we do not take our faith in our religion seriously enough. It has to begin from there and the rest would come in place.
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vluvski:
Can someone explain the difference between excommunication and anethema(sp?) please?
Too lazy to look that up now for a proper definition. Hopefully others will fill in.:o
 
I know papal primacy/infallibility and the filioque are two issues that are often discussed, but very little would really change on a practical level if a congregation of Orthodox believers decided to become a part of the Catholic Church.
What are you basing this on? Because I think there are at least a few members here who have been Eastern Catholic before becoming Orthodox who might have a different opinion.
In general, I have the impression that Orthodox faithful tend to be better catechized and more devout that Catholics. Maybe that’s just because the ones who talk about it are the ones who take it seriously? Or is this really the case?
Both communions have their fair share of every type of person. Remember that you’re discussing the two largest bodies of Christians in the world. At some level, generalizations will break down.
Can someone explain the difference between excommunication and anethema(sp?) please?
As the form of the word implies, excommunication is removal from communion (usually temporarily, as a penance), but not being kicked out of the Church. Anathema is being kicked out of the Church, essentially.
 
I have opened a dialog at a primarily Orthodox forum to get an honest Eastern Orthodox perspective. One member said the following:
it also contradicts the ecumenical councils, which stated that after the after the doctrine of the Holy Spirit was confirmed, the subsequent councils each affirmed the Creed without the filioque, and confirmed that all manner and teaching concerning the Spirit was “full and complete.”
later on, to put a stamp on this when the filioque was being introduced, one of the popes put the Creed up on doors in tha Vatican without it, and Pope John VIII actually signed off on a council excommunicating anyone who added to the Creed.
Is this historically accurate? To what councils might he be referring so that I may look them up myself.

I already read parts of Vatican I regarding papal primacy and infallibility. I know there are other threads on that so I’m going to go there.

I’m getting way behind in my own threads. Ack! I so don’t have time for this…
 
What are you basing this on? Because I think there are at least a few members here who have been Eastern Catholic before becoming Orthodox who might have a different opinion.
Ok, that’s fair. Instead of stating my uninformed impression, I will ask, What would change on a practical level if an Orthodox congregation decided to join communion with the Catholic Church?
Both communions have their fair share of every type of person. Remember that you’re discussing the two largest bodies of Christians in the world. At some level, generalizations will break down.
Again, intended as a question more so than a statement of fact. Since we are talking about very large groups of people, let’s limit it to Catholics and Orthodox within the US.
As the form of the word implies, excommunication is removal from communion (usually temporarily, as a penance), but not being kicked out of the Church. Anathema is being kicked out of the Church, essentially.
Hmm, I had the two backwards, then, that excommunication was more grave than anathema.
 
What are you basing this on? Because I think there are at least a few members here who have been Eastern Catholic before becoming Orthodox who might have a different opinion.
Stop talking about me!

:p:D:D:D
 
I meant people who have actually become Orthodox, but hey…maybe I’m predicting the future by accident.
 
Ok, that’s fair. Instead of stating my uninformed impression, I will ask, What would change on a practical level if an Orthodox congregation decided to join communion with the Catholic.
I think this is a pertinent question and very much in context of the thread. I know very little about the Orthodox, perhaps next to nothing and therefore cannot contribute much (name removed by moderator)ut. But perhaps this will give more light about the question of the non-acceptance or acceptance of the Holy Communion that can be explored in more depth.
 
I think this is a pertinent question and very much in context of the thread. I know very little about the Orthodox, perhaps next to nothing and therefore cannot contribute much (name removed by moderator)ut. But perhaps this will give more light about the question of the non-acceptance or acceptance of the Holy Communion that can be explored in more depth.
Catholics can receive Holy Communion in The Russian Orthodox Church but the priests will not let them. I say this from experience with my father and other priests I know
 
What does that mean, ThatOrthodoxGuy? If they priests will not let them, then they cannot receive… :hmmm:
 
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