Behavior of average Evangelical vs. Catholic

[Jennifer123]

Perfect. Tradition tells us that the first churches didn’t have crosses either. We have some good archeological evidence of the first century churches: no crosses, no drawings, statues or paintings of Mary or the “saints” (all believers in the Way were considered “Saints”, by the way). The only images: A fish on the front door with the Greek symbols IXOYE which means, Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior. Evangelicals still use this symbol on their cars, homes, etc.

So I would say if Bill Hybels and Willow Creek don’t have a cross, that is actually rather first century Christian of them!

The early Church didn’t have crosses for fear of persecution! I have a hard time thinking that even with the struggles we have today that churches feel they have to hide the Cross for fear of death.

The fact that they had IXOYE just proves my point with regards to Willow Creek, that it is an aberration that IMHO amounts to “tradition of men”. It is an attempt to be all things to all men, but at what cost?

BTW - the Church still considers us all the be saints.

 

[JesusforMadrid]

Wrong. A well learned Catholic knows the bible better than any Evangelical, no matter how well the Evangelical thinks he knows the bible. The Bible is only part of Divine Revelation. We (Catholic Church) have the correct understanding when it comes to interpreting the Word of God. The Bible belongs to the Catholic Church so how could the Church not know the bible better than any Evangelical?

Even if there are Catholics who do not know the bible, that does not mean that Evangelicals know the bible better than Catholics in general. Since the bible is not for personal interpretation than you can’t say that Evangelicals know the bible better than Catholics no matter the numbers (how many Catholics vs how many Evangelicals “know” the bible).

Right. I don’t know where to begin.

I think I shall just leave you with a note from Jerome: Ignorance of the Scripture is ignorance of Christ.

God Bless

 

[AlegreFe]

I think I shall just leave you with a note from Jerome: Ignorance of the Scripture is ignorance of Christ.

Huh?

I know that ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. And Jerome is Catholic.
What gives?

 

[deb1]

Right. I don’t know where to begin.

I think I shall just leave you with a note from Jerome: Ignorance of the Scripture is ignorance of Christ.

God Bless

I think that you misread Algre’s post. He was not suggesting that a person not read scripture.

 

[AlegreFe]

I think that you misread Algre’s post. He was not suggesting that a person not read scripture.

JFM and most non-Catholics here usually misread my posts. Oh well, I just offer it up. (only a Catholic would understand that last statement).

I would never suggest that you should not read the bible.

btw, I’m a “she” and not a “he.” My name is in my siggy. I only know of one “male” Sandy, although there could be more of course.

 

[30miller]

JFM and most non-Catholics here usually misread my posts. Oh well, I just offer it up. (only a Catholic would understand that last statement).

I would never suggest that you should not read the bible.

btw, I’m a “she” and not a “he.” My name is in my siggy. I only know of one “male” Sandy, although there could be more of course.

Sandy Koufax - Hall of Fame pitcher for the Dodgers. One of the very very very few Jewish professional athletes.

Sandy - older son on the old Flipper TV series.

 

[RNRobert]

Sandy Koufax - Hall of Fame pitcher for the Dodgers. One of the very very very few Jewish professional athletes.

Sandy - older son on the old Flipper TV series.

I believe Lil Orphan Annie’s dog was named Sandy (not sure if it was a he or a she, though).

 

[lak611]

btw, I’m a “she” and not a “he.” My name is in my siggy. I only know of one “male” Sandy, although there could be more of course.

Sandy Alomar is another baseball player. He’s a catcher. He used to play for the Cleveland Indians when they were good back in the 90’s.

 

[Jennifer123]

Sandy Alomar is another baseball player. He’s a catcher. He used to play for the Cleveland Indians when they were good back in the 90’s.

You guys are too funny - and too smart!!

 

[30miller]

You guys are too funny - and too smart!!

Sandy Lyle - professional golfer who won both the Masters and US OPEN

 

[KatieD]

I think it’s a bit tough to generalize the behavior of either group - we all see good and bad behavior in both. However, I will say that as a cradle Catholic, I was never taught that other religions were evil or that their leaders were the anti-Christ. I was shocked, as you can imagine, when I married into my husband’s family of Mormons and evangelicals and had to start defending my faith against all sorts of misinformation and prejudice!

 

[Cat]

Please define “more Christian.”

I grew up evangelical Protestant and spent 40 years as an active member of evangelical churches. I converted to Catholicism in 2004.

Are you talking about alcohol consumption and other “visible” behaviors? In the past, I would have said that evangelicals don’t drink alcohol, but I have seen this change in the last ten years. Even my ex-Pentecostal parents-in-law drink now.

But is abstinence from alcohol “more Christian”?

Are we talking about movies, television, swearing, going to church, reading romance novels, eating too much, etc?

Are we talking about pre-marital sex, abortions, homosexuality, etc.?

Are we talking about giving money and our children to missions and the poor?

Are we talking about basic kindness and politeness? I hope not, because I’ve found throughout my life that many atheists are more kind and polite than many Christians.

What is “more Christian” anyway?

This is an excellent thread, very thought-provoking. For many years, I have grappled with the concept of being “in the world but not of the world” I personally think that there is very little difference in the way Christians live compared to the way non-Christians live, and that’s sad, IMO.

 

[MariaG]

Perfect. Tradition tells us that the first churches didn’t have crosses either. We have some good archeological evidence of the first century churches: no crosses, no drawings, statues or paintings of Mary or the “saints” (all believers in the Way were considered “Saints”, by the way). The only images: A fish on the front door with the Greek symbols IXOYE which means, Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior. Evangelicals still use this symbol on their cars, homes, etc.

So I would say if Bill Hybels and Willow Creek don’t have a cross, that is actually rather first century Christian of them!

I see, when you refer to the way a church “looks” you are referring to it’s outward trappings instead of the actual structure of leadership and how that leadership is to be chosen?

As has been pointed out, the reason that the only images that were publicly displayed were due to persecution. However, you are much mistaken when you say there were no other images.

Scripture records, (I do not have time to find the exact reference, I will do so later or hopefully one of my fellow forum Catholics will do so ), where believers, who were not present at the crucifixion, are told something like, “did you not see with your own eyes his death”.

Sorry for the butchering. But basically scripture tells us that images of Christ’s death WERE used and it is recorded in Scripture. I WILL get back and find this or someone else can, but respectfully, your belief that they only images of early Christians are wrong and can be shown to be wrong with Scripture.

As for the saint issue:

Believers in the Catholic church are also considered saints. But through the years, the Church has felt it is right and good to honor those warriors for God who were models of Christian behavoir, much in the same way OT “heros” like Abraham and Moses are honored. Consider the possibility if you did not know this, that all members of the Church are considered saints that there is much that you misunderstand about the teachings of the Catholic Church.

823 The Church . . . is held, as a matter of faith, to be unfailingly holy. This is because Christ, the Son of God, who with the Father and the Spirit is hailed as ‘alone holy,’ loved the Church as his Bride, giving himself up for her so as to sanctify her; he joined her to himself as his body and endowed her with the gift of the Holy Spirit for the glory of God."289 The Church, then, is "the holy People of God,"290 and her members are called "saints."291

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

I just spent some time looking for where in scripture it talks about believers seeing the images of Christ’s crucifixion and can’t find it. I could use some serious help.

 

[rtconstant]

Perfect. Tradition tells us that the first churches didn’t have crosses either. We have some good archeological evidence of the first century churches: no crosses, no drawings, statues or paintings of Mary or the “saints” (all believers in the Way were considered “Saints”, by the way). The only images: A fish on the front door with the Greek symbols IXOYE which means, Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior. Evangelicals still use this symbol on their cars, homes, etc.

So I would say if Bill Hybels and Willow Creek don’t have a cross, that is actually rather first century Christian of them!

Not true, the first centruy church used a wide array of symbols and pictures. The Good Shepherd, The Orante, The Chi Ro, The dove, the Alpha and Omega, The Phoenix and the Anchor which was a disguised cross. The symbols were more subtle to be sure (because of persecusion) but imagery and symbols were highly valued by the early the Chruch.

 

[Della]

I just spent some time looking for where in scripture it talks about believers seeing the images of Christ’s crucifixion and can’t find it. I could use some serious help.

It’s: Gal.3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

 

[MariaG]

It’s: Gal.3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

Thanks Della:thumbsup: You always seem to come through with the exact place in Scripture.

That was exactly the verse I was looking for.

 

[Della]

Originally Posted by Della
It’s: Gal.3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

MariaG:

Thanks Della You always seem to come through with the exact place in Scripture.

That was exactly the verse I was looking for.

It’s one of those verses I never really studied in my Assemblies of God Bible College. We never seemed to notice the part about “Jesus Christ…publicly portrayed as crucified.” Like other verses that support Catholic teaching, I never seemed to see it–a common experience of those who came into the Catholic Church from Evangelical/Pentecostal/Fundamental Christian bodies.

But, since reading them in the light of Catholic teaching, and remembering some of the key words and phrases I learned so well as a member of the A/G, I find it relatively easy to look them up–which is something I am both grateful for and owe to my Protestant background.

 

[prv]

I didn’t mean to offend anyone here. I have just been to a lot of evangelical churches and they seem to outwardly live more christian lives then catholics. They don’t swear as much, they generally seem to be nicer to eachother, on average they seem to spend more time reading the bible and praying. they also seem more chaste sexually.

I am not throwing flame bait out there just telling you my observations.

sometimes I think that in a lot of Catholic lives there is a huge disconnect with what happens at Mass and what goes on in their lives.

it is hard to be a catholic evangelist when all the catholics people know live un christian lives outside of mass.

“All the Catholics…”? Pretty big stroke of the brush, don’t you think?

BTW, I’m sure pretty much everyone here know Evangelicals as well as Catholics as well as everyone else who is ungodlier than the devil himself.

 

[JesusforMadrid]

Not true, the first centruy church used a wide array of symbols and pictures. The Good Shepherd, The Orante, The Chi Ro, The dove, the Alpha and Omega, The Phoenix and the Anchor which was a disguised cross. The symbols were more subtle to be sure (because of persecusion) but imagery and symbols were highly valued by the early the Chruch.

I’ll look into this. Thanks for that.