Behold, It Was Leah!

[Ben_Masada]

Excuse me, Ben. It’s not on this thread! And I DID gave you my answer.
Nevertheless, you should not wait until someone answers your questions to your liking to come with actual, truly solid arguments. If you wait for somebody else before doing so, then you probably are more interested in winning the argument to the eyes of others than in the Truth. Sorry, that’s how it appears to me.

Okay Lapell, let us drop this issue and consider it a puzzle whose pieces have been lost. I consider it case closed.

 

[Wildkit]

And yours. You don’t see them, or maybe you don’t care much about the truth. You care about winning, but not much about your argument being true or not. Winning doesn’t mean always that you are in the truth!

Amen! Some like to run their mouth, control the diatribe. When we look for truths, they are not always hidden. But some do like control!

 

[Ben_Masada]

Amen! Some like to run their mouth, control the diatribe. When we look for truths, they are not always hidden. But some do like control!

**That’s not the point. The point is that the reader never has strenght enough to debate a book with the writer. **

 

[Lapell]

**That’s not the point. The point is that the reader never has strenght enough to debate a book with the writer. **

But YOU ARE a reader trying to debate a book with… other readers! Yourself, you are not the author, are you!

 

[Ben_Masada]

But YOU ARE a reader trying to debate a book with… other readers! Yourself, you are not the author, are you!

I am a member of the People who wrote the Bible. I mean, the Tanach. Credit must be given to whom the credit is due.

 

[Lapell]

I am a member of the People who wrote the Bible. I mean, the Tanach. Credit must be given to whom the credit is due.

Indeed. For the prime Author of the Bible is God Himself, through some Israelite authors. These authors are the authors. The People of God are not. But if they live according to what God asks of them, yeah, they are a living Bible, or TaNaKH, in themselves. Then, yes. But only then. Only then they deserve the credit. If you only talk the talk without walking the walk, why the talk then?
And we as Christians are members of the Church who gave the world the New Testament, and in the beginning they were all Jews and were called differently, as you said: the Nazarenes. Some called their faith the Way. Until they were called Christians.

 

[Lapell]

Let’s face it, though: I am not the author of the Gospel, nor of the rest of the New Testament, no more than you are the author of the TaNaKH. And we students of the Sacred Scriptures should be careful not to declare ourselves righteous teachers of the faith revealed to our predecessors.
(Judaism is also a faith, since the Jewish People claims to have received their TaNaKH from a revelation, or an unveiling, of Adonai Almighty their God, rather than just having imagined how the god or the gods must be like ancient people such as the Mesopotamians, the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Hindous have…

 

[Lapell]

Indeed. For the prime Author of the Bible is God Himself, through some Israelite authors. These authors are the authors. The People of God are not. But if they live according to what God asks of them, yeah, they are a living Bible, or TaNaKH, in themselves. Then, yes. But only then. Only then they deserve the credit. If you only talk the talk without walking the walk, why the talk then?

I read somewhere that one of God’s commandments to the Jewish People specifically is to write one copy of… was it just the Torah or the TaNaKH? I would tend to think it was said “the Torah”, although “the TaNaKH” would probably seem to be much better. But you see, all of the 613 commandments (mitsvoth) are all contained in, or derived from the Torah. I understand that commandment as meaning: “Be yourself a living Torah, or a living TaNaKH”. I would add: “With your whole heart, soul, mind and strength”.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I read somewhere that one of God’s commandments to the Jewish People specifically is to write one copy of… was it just the Torah or the TaNaKH? I would tend to think it was said “the Torah”, although “the TaNaKH” would probably seem to be much better. But you see, all of the 613 commandments (mitsvoth) are all contained in, or derived from the Torah. I understand that commandment as meaning: “Be yourself a living Torah, or a living TaNaKH”. I would add: “With your whole heart, soul, mind and strength”.

That’s Torah. Some of our Rabbis say that’s a great commandment to copy a Torah or to support someone, as he copies a Torah.

 

[Lapell]

And if you are doing what the Torah asks of you, you are indeed “making a copy of the Torah” in the best possible. For what good would you copy the text in a scroll of your own if you don’t practice God’s Commandments which are written in the Torah?

 

[Lapell]

Indeed. For the prime Author of the Bible is God Himself, through some Israelite authors. These authors are the authors. The People of God are not. But if they live according to what God asks of them, yeah, they are a living Bible, or TaNaKH, in themselves. Then, yes. But only then. Only then they deserve the credit. If you only talk the talk without walking the walk, why the talk then?
And we as Christians are members of the Church who gave the world the New Testament, and in the beginning they were all Jews and were called differently, as you said: the Nazarenes. Some called their faith the Way. Until they were called Christians.

 

[Ben_Masada]

And if you are doing what the Torah asks of you, you are indeed “making a copy of the Torah” in the best possible. For what good would you copy the text in a scroll of your own if you don’t practice God’s Commandments which are written in the Torah?

And you want me to stop making a copy of the Torah to become a Catholic. Does it make any sense at all? I can’t abandon the Faith of Jesus for the one of Paul.

 

[Lapell]

And you want me to stop making a copy of the Torah to become a Catholic.

Where do you get that notion, Ben? Where did I say that you have to stop making a copy of the Torah? I never said that kind of thing!!
Become a living Torah in your own life, that’s what I said. In addition to writing your copy of the Torah if you will. Only, don’t forget to become yourself with your own life a living copy of the Torah, otherwise you would be living your Judaism only on the surface.

 

[Lapell]

** I can’t abandon the Faith of Jesus for the one of Paul.**

You mean you can’t abandon Judaism for Christianity!
First, you can’t tell for sure what was Jesus’ Faith. What we know about Jesus of Nazareth we know it from the New Testament, though in the light of the TaNaKH. But you discard from the New Testament most of its content, so you can’t actually tell it for sure even though you have been telling us what you think it was (or what you want us to believe you think it was…)
Secondly, your faith wasn’t even called “Judaism” until just a few hundreds years ago.
Thirdly, Paul got his faith from the resurrected Jesus Himself. Until then, he used to be a zealous Jew who thought those following Jesus and claiming him to be the Son of God (God the Son) were plain blasphemers.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Where do you get that notion, Ben? Where did I say that you have to stop making a copy of the Torah? I never said that kind of thing!!
Become a living Torah in your own life, that’s what I said. In addition to writing your copy of the Torah if you will. Only, don’t forget to become yourself with your own life a living copy of the Torah, otherwise you would be living your Judaism only on the surface.

**You speak about me as if you live with me, and see that I am a hypocrite and do not observe Torah. Where is this coming from? I never doubt the Catholic way you live. What I am concerned is about what you know of the Scriptures and not how you live your religious life. So, let’s discuss what we know and not what we do. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

You mean you can’t abandon Judaism for Christianity!
First, you can’t tell for sure what was Jesus’ Faith. What we know about Jesus of Nazareth we know it from the New Testament, though in the light of the TaNaKH. But you discard from the New Testament most of its content, so you can’t actually tell it for sure even though you have been telling us what you think it was (or what you want us to believe you think it was…)
Secondly, your faith wasn’t even called “Judaism” until just a few hundreds years ago.
Thirdly, Paul got his faith from the resurrected Jesus Himself. Until then, he used to be a zealous Jew who thought those following Jesus and claiming him to be the Son of God (God the Son) were plain blasphemers.

**That Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he resurrected started with Paul, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone.

If Jesus’ faith was not Judaism, I want to believe it. If you help me to convince the others here that Jesus was not even a Jew, I have nothing to stay here for. I will leave you guys in peace and never return to the forum. I am here only because you yourselves claim that Jesus was Jewish and make of him a Greek demigod.**

 

[Lapell]

**You speak about me as if you live with me, and see that I am a hypocrite and do not observe Torah. Where is this coming from? I never doubt the Catholic way you live. What I am concerned is about what you know of the Scriptures and not how you live your religious life. So, let’s discuss what we know and not what we do. **

If you already observe the Commandments, and therefore are already making yourself a living Torah, well I am happy for you. Still, there is always room for improvement, isn’t there?
As for not discussing what you do, allow me to still mention what you are doing by telling things like Peter being a Nazarene and Paul a Christian and them not preaching the same things until Paul preaches Jesus as Messiah and Son of God is at best a big mistake. Preaching an error is a no-no as far as God is concerned, isn’t it? Or is it?

 

[Lapell]

**That Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he resurrected started with Paul, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone.

If Jesus’ faith was not Judaism, I want to believe it. If you help me to convince the others here that Jesus was not even a Jew, I have nothing to stay here for. I will leave you guys in peace and never return to the forum. I am here only because you yourselves claim that Jesus was Jewish and make of him a Greek demigod.**

I told you that the faith of the Jews had not been called Judaism back then. What Jesus exactly believed, how do YOU know for sure? I was not talking of a religion, but on the set of details of Jesus’ beliefs. For one thing, the New Testament certainly shows him as being convinced he is God the Son as well as the Messiah. It’s a consistent thing. You call this claim a lie, and you put it on the Gospel writers, claiming that it was not Jesus’ claim. But it’s an error at best!

 

[Lapell]

**That Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he resurrected started with Paul, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone.
**

Oh, no Ben! Read Peter’s speech in Acts 2. He certainly proclaims Jesus’ Messiahship and Resurrection…

 

[Ben_Masada]

If you already observe the Commandments, and therefore are already making yourself a living Torah, well I am happy for you. Still, there is always room for improvement, isn’t there?
As for not discussing what you do, allow me to still mention what you are doing by telling things like Peter being a Nazarene and Paul a Christian and them not preaching the same things until Paul preaches Jesus as Messiah and Son of God is at best a big mistake. Preaching an error is a no-no as far as God is concerned, isn’t it? Or is it?

You are still to prove that what I say is a mistake.