Behold, It Was Leah!

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Lapell said:
I told you that the faith of the Jews had not been called Judaism back then. What Jesus exactly believed, how do YOU know for sure? I was not talking of a religion, but on the set of details of Jesus’ beliefs. For one thing, the New Testament certainly shows him as being convinced he is God the Son as well as the Messiah. It’s a consistent thing. You call this claim a lie, and you put it on the Gospel writers, claiming that it was not Jesus’ claim. But it’s an error at best!
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In that case, Jesus was not a Jew. It’s absolutely not Jewish for a Jew to claim that he was god. This is a Greek custom, not Jewish.
 
Lapell said:
Oh, no Ben! Read Peter’s speech in Acts 2. He certainly proclaims Jesus’ Messiahship and Resurrection…
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**Okay, read Acts 2:14. That introduction to a Jewish audience is not from a Jew. A Jew would never start talking to the Jews by saying, “You who are Jews here in Jerusalem, listen to what I have to say…” Besides, Peter was a Jewish man. He would never accused his fellow Jews with having crucified Jesus because he knew who did it. (Acts 2:36) That speech was written by a Gentile and never delivered. Not in Jerusalem, of course! **
 
Of course the introduction was not done by a Jew. That was Luke. And Luke’s Gospel was meant for non-Jewish audiences? Should they have been left out because they were not Jews, even though they were God-fearing Gentiles. The Gospels and the rest of the NT were not intended only to Jesus’ disciples of Jewish origin, but to all!
Hence the mentions which would not be needed for disciples of Jewish origin.
 
Ben_Masada said:
In that case, Jesus was not a Jew. It’s absolutely not Jewish for a Jew to claim that he was god. This is a Greek custom, not Jewish.
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Actual Greeks? Maybe the kings… and not only the Greek
kings, but also the pharaohs, the Babylonian kings and the Roman Caesars. So the “custom” was not really “Greek” per se! As for Israelites and Jews… they would have had to be God to claim to be God, which they of course were not… except this Jesus!
 
And the rather more discreet ways he showed it to the disciples. Nothing like the Greek or the Roman way, with all the self-centeredness… more like the God of the Jews, who do care about the people.
 
And in Ezechiel, didn’t God say something about coming Himself to tend His sheep?
 
Ben_Masada said:
** If you help me to convince the others here that Jesus was not even a Jew, (…) **
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I thought that to you he was a Jew? Why should I “help you convince the others here that Jesus was not even a Jew”, when while among us Jesus WAS a Jew? If he was not a Jew while He was in the form of a man, then who was he?
 
Why “help me convince the others here” rather than “show me” or “prove it”, Ben?
 
Lapell said:
I thought that to you he was a Jew? Why should I “help you convince the others here that Jesus was not even a Jew”, when while among us Jesus WAS a Jew? If he was not a Jew while He was in the form of a man, then who was he?
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For me, Jesus was a Jewish man. For you, he was a Greek demigod.
 
Ben_Masada said:
For me, Jesus was a Jewish man. For you, he was a Greek demigod.
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No, Ben, for me, He is the Logos of Adonai Elohenu made flesh, taking the form of a Jew. Nothing to do with a so-called “Greek demigod”. Your God was revealed to Moses in a burning bush at a certain period of time. Did the people immediately believe him, Ben? A great number of them did NOT!!! Emphatically, NO, they didn’t, even though he never claimed to be equal to God! Even when God showed in many ways that He really sent him and confirmed Moses’ mission.
 
Do you think that when the Mashiach comes every Jew (and every man, for that matter) will recognize Him as such and will follow Him in everything? Even though I’d wish very much that they do, I doubt it very much.
 
Lapell said:
May your God show you the Truth, since you won’t believe us at all…
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How could I believe you? You don’t have the Truth. Jesus said that the Truth is the Word of God. (John 17:17) And the Psalmist says that the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. (Psalm 147:19,20) That’s the reason why I can’t believe you.
 
Ben_Masada said:
How could I believe you? You don’t have the Truth. Jesus said that the Truth is the Word of God. (John 17:17) And the Psalmist says that the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. (Psalm 147:19,20) That’s the reason why I can’t believe you.
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What Jesus said is: “I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” That’s how He said it, we didn’t make it up as you seem to think!
 
Ben_Masada said:
How could I believe you? You don’t have the Truth. Jesus said that the Truth is the Word of God. (John 17:17) And the Psalmist says that the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. (Psalm 147:19,20) That’s the reason why I can’t believe you.
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If you quote what Jesus said as the Gospels report it, please use the SAME wording. dear Y.!
 
Lapell said:
What Jesus said is: “I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” That’s how He said it, we didn’t make it up as you seem to think!
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So, you are telling me that he did not say in John 17:17 that the Truth is the Word of God. I did not know thate French Bibles were different from other Bibles.
 
Ben_Masada said:
So, you are telling me that he did not say in John 17:17 that the Truth is the Word of God. I did not know thate French Bibles were different from other Bibles.
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You are refering to Jesus’ famous sacerdotal prayer in the whole of John 17. In the French version it says:“Ta parole est la v/erit/e.” (Litt. “Your Word is the Truth”… not quite the same thing, Y.! (I use Y. even though you said your first name starts with J., for in Israel they must probably call you by a name beginning with Y rather than with J) What I told you Jesus said you will find in John 14, 6. And in John 11, 25 He tells Martha, Lazarus’ sister: “I am the resurrection and the life”. These passages you caqn’t simply dismiss them like that, they are part of the Gospel.
 
Lapell said:
You are refering to Jesus’ famous sacerdotal prayer in the whole of John 17. In the French version it says:“Ta parole est la v/erit/e.” (Litt. “Your Word is the Truth”… not quite the same thing, Y.! (I use Y. even though you said your first name starts with J., for in Israel they must probably call you by a name beginning with Y rather than with J) What I told you Jesus said you will find in John 14, 6. And in John 11, 25 He tells Martha, Lazarus’ sister: “I am the resurrection and the life”. These passages you caqn’t simply dismiss them like that, they are part of the Gospel.
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They are interpolations by the Hellenistic Gentiles who wrote the gospels and believed in Physical resurrection. Jesus was Jewish and Jews don’t believe in physical resurrection. It contradicts the Scriptures. The resurrection we believe is according to Ezekiel 37:12.
 
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