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angel12
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It is not socially acceptable in my Catholic circles to question why someone doesn’t have an outside job.
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Irishmom2
Guest
“You can’t expect people to respect being jobless…”It’s socially acceptable and respected if you have young children to care for. If not, not so much. You can’t expect people to respect being jobless but you can expect people to keep their gosh darn mouths shut around you.
Why not? What are you saying?
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Werbenjagermanjensen
Guest
I’ve always taken a job to mean paid activities. The stuff I have to do at home to eat and not live in filth is important work, but it isn’t a job. I wouldn’t go around saying I have two full-time jobs because I cook and clean at home on top of the stuff I do to bring in money.
No offense but homemaking without children seems like the easiest job in the world. Not much going to change my mind there. All you have to do is complete the stuff that every adult has to get done whether they’re employed or not. You only have the mess of one other adult who is gone all day and helps out when they’re at home. It’s a pretty sweet gig if you can get it.
No offense but homemaking without children seems like the easiest job in the world. Not much going to change my mind there. All you have to do is complete the stuff that every adult has to get done whether they’re employed or not. You only have the mess of one other adult who is gone all day and helps out when they’re at home. It’s a pretty sweet gig if you can get it.
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Irishmom2
Guest
You make a lot of assumptions about people, and you have no real way of knowing what goes on in someone else’s home.
You assume that the other person helps out. Not always true.
You assume that cleaning up after one other person is all that people do.
Some people take over all of the home maintenance and repairs, yard work, painting, bill paying, running errands, and care for extended family members like parents and In-laws so they can remain in their own homes. All of that in addition to laundry, shopping, meal making and arranging family events.
You paint a picture with a very broad brush.
You assume that the other person helps out. Not always true.
You assume that cleaning up after one other person is all that people do.
Some people take over all of the home maintenance and repairs, yard work, painting, bill paying, running errands, and care for extended family members like parents and In-laws so they can remain in their own homes. All of that in addition to laundry, shopping, meal making and arranging family events.
You paint a picture with a very broad brush.
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katiecall87
Guest
Personally, I’ve never expected my husband to help out- outside of basic courtesies (like putting clothes in the hamper/just rinsing dirty dishes when done w them etc).
I think if a wife is pushing her husband to help out w chores, if she isn’t also working a job, is tacky/unreasonable.
To be honest… I HAVE seen it happen, but in normal situations…no…
All the same you’d be amazed at what some wives do day to day, even without kids, especially in a military environment. My husband isn’t military anymore, but back when he was- I shined his boots, kept his uniforms clean, ironed, and in regs. Stitched on rank… cut hair… kept track of appointments and briefings… had to go to spouse group meetings, tons of socially expected volunteer work, deal w the attitudes of other wives who think they personally ‘out rank’ you. The list goes on. Adding in children just increases the amount of dribble that you get sucked into doing.
My husband never expected me to do that stuff and even thought it was dumb- but it made him look better at work. I happen to know for a fact that in a lot of military environments things the wife does or doesn’t do affects the husband at work. I knew a lady once who got a speeding ticket and her husband got lectured for it. It’s super duper ridiculous.
But anyway- long boring tangent later… just saying that it’s hard to tell how much work a wife does. Sometimes you’re right and they really aren’t doing much and should probably do more on some level to support their partners. But a lot of times wives do so much it makes the husbands look like they have the easier end of the deal. It really just depends on the couple and what they have going on.
I think if a wife is pushing her husband to help out w chores, if she isn’t also working a job, is tacky/unreasonable.
To be honest… I HAVE seen it happen, but in normal situations…no…
All the same you’d be amazed at what some wives do day to day, even without kids, especially in a military environment. My husband isn’t military anymore, but back when he was- I shined his boots, kept his uniforms clean, ironed, and in regs. Stitched on rank… cut hair… kept track of appointments and briefings… had to go to spouse group meetings, tons of socially expected volunteer work, deal w the attitudes of other wives who think they personally ‘out rank’ you. The list goes on. Adding in children just increases the amount of dribble that you get sucked into doing.
My husband never expected me to do that stuff and even thought it was dumb- but it made him look better at work. I happen to know for a fact that in a lot of military environments things the wife does or doesn’t do affects the husband at work. I knew a lady once who got a speeding ticket and her husband got lectured for it. It’s super duper ridiculous.
But anyway- long boring tangent later… just saying that it’s hard to tell how much work a wife does. Sometimes you’re right and they really aren’t doing much and should probably do more on some level to support their partners. But a lot of times wives do so much it makes the husbands look like they have the easier end of the deal. It really just depends on the couple and what they have going on.
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Reuben_J
Guest
Just don’t tell that to my wife. Homemaker’s chores just never end. Even as the children are all grown up. And with the added involvement with some church activities, she’s even busier than I am. We love her so.
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catholicwifeforlife1
Guest
No, you wouldn’t because that infers paid employment. Though, you still can’t write off all the families that operate differently than yours.I wouldn’t go around saying I have two full-time jobs because I cook and clean at home on top of the stuff I do to bring in money.
In our household we have pets and my husband works long hours. I don’t expect him to do chores because he is exhausted when he gets home from work. His job is labor intensive and I like to make sure he has a nice environment when he comes home so he can relax (which is good for our marriage overall). On top of that, I have health concerns that I’m working on that currently prevent me from being employed. Additionally, I am in school working towards my degree.
But also, you can’t say that there isn’t that much to do if a wife stays at home. Unlike you (assumably) we don’t have a washer and dryer or a car. We rely on local transportation and laundrymats to get our chores done. And since we don’t get to spend that much time together because of my husband’s work schedule, the time we are together is spent being together, instead of cleaning. So, our house does get messy on a daily basis. Though, also on a daily basis, I clean the house which includes: folding clothes, making the bed, washing dishes, feeding the pets, making breakfast and dinner, cleaning the floors, scrubbing the bathroom, and shopping for household needs. And that’s not even mentioning the homework I have to do for my degree or how my health gets in the way.
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Allegra
Guest
All right. Here it is.
I work full time and still have to do ALL those things. Well, not take care of parents and inlaws. My parents and inlaws are all in decent health and still working themselves.
In fact, everyone in my family and my husband’s family works. And then they go home and make dinner, clean up, toss in laundry, say prayers with the children, make cupcakes for the bake sale, check their facebook, engage in marital relations, and fall asleep. This is the way it is for pretty much everyone I know.
It’s what my mother did. It’s what my mother’s mother did. It’s what my father’s mother did. It’s what my great-grandmothers did. It’s what all my aunties did (except for one whose husband eventually left her for a woman half her age). It’s what my sisters do. It’s what all my friends do. It is how IT is. No woman or girl I associate with in real life expects otherwise. Oh, they may get a few years hiatus when their kids are babies, though they’ll probably help out with the babies of a sister or friend to make a little on the side, but that’s only because childcare costs so darn much that if they did work, they’d basically be working for free! But no one actually expects that they will have the sort of life where all they have to do is look after their own home without even a single kid to mess it up!
If some childless woman has managed to work the system so all they have to do is mop their own parquet, mow their own lawn, and learn to crochet their own doilies, I say “more power to them!” But you’re not going to get too far trying to convince people that it’s the same thing as doing that AND holding a job too.
Everyone who has a household, has to take care of their household. It doesn’t matter if they are parents or how many jobs they have, they have to clean their house, pay bills, run errands, bathe the dog, and all of that. Who do you think does it for working women? Do you think they have a team of domestics or something? They have to dust the tchotchkes in their curios in the same 24 hours everyone else gets and they don’t usually expect a medal for it. When I lay down at night, and I look back at my day, I’m thinking of the time I spent with my family and difference I made for my students. I’m not thinking about what a great job I did cleaning out the fridge. It’s just not that important.
And in case people haven’t noticed, taking care of a home isn’t nearly the amount of work it was a couple generations ago. We have things like vacuum sweepers, Magic Erasers, convection ovens, washers and dryers, and wash and wear cotton. It’s not like you have to go out on the porch and scrub your husband’s skivvies on a washboard, hang them on the line, and then starch and iron those bad boys! I mean, you can if you want to, of course, but don’t expect people to throw you a party for it because that’s freakin weird!
I just don’t get complaining that people don’t heap respect on unemployed, childless women for doing a fraction of what everyone else has to do. It’s somewhat akin to complaining that no one understands how hard it is to win the lottery! Just be thankful that you are blessed enough to have that lifestyle!
I work full time and still have to do ALL those things. Well, not take care of parents and inlaws. My parents and inlaws are all in decent health and still working themselves.
In fact, everyone in my family and my husband’s family works. And then they go home and make dinner, clean up, toss in laundry, say prayers with the children, make cupcakes for the bake sale, check their facebook, engage in marital relations, and fall asleep. This is the way it is for pretty much everyone I know.
It’s what my mother did. It’s what my mother’s mother did. It’s what my father’s mother did. It’s what my great-grandmothers did. It’s what all my aunties did (except for one whose husband eventually left her for a woman half her age). It’s what my sisters do. It’s what all my friends do. It is how IT is. No woman or girl I associate with in real life expects otherwise. Oh, they may get a few years hiatus when their kids are babies, though they’ll probably help out with the babies of a sister or friend to make a little on the side, but that’s only because childcare costs so darn much that if they did work, they’d basically be working for free! But no one actually expects that they will have the sort of life where all they have to do is look after their own home without even a single kid to mess it up!
If some childless woman has managed to work the system so all they have to do is mop their own parquet, mow their own lawn, and learn to crochet their own doilies, I say “more power to them!” But you’re not going to get too far trying to convince people that it’s the same thing as doing that AND holding a job too.
Everyone who has a household, has to take care of their household. It doesn’t matter if they are parents or how many jobs they have, they have to clean their house, pay bills, run errands, bathe the dog, and all of that. Who do you think does it for working women? Do you think they have a team of domestics or something? They have to dust the tchotchkes in their curios in the same 24 hours everyone else gets and they don’t usually expect a medal for it. When I lay down at night, and I look back at my day, I’m thinking of the time I spent with my family and difference I made for my students. I’m not thinking about what a great job I did cleaning out the fridge. It’s just not that important.
And in case people haven’t noticed, taking care of a home isn’t nearly the amount of work it was a couple generations ago. We have things like vacuum sweepers, Magic Erasers, convection ovens, washers and dryers, and wash and wear cotton. It’s not like you have to go out on the porch and scrub your husband’s skivvies on a washboard, hang them on the line, and then starch and iron those bad boys! I mean, you can if you want to, of course, but don’t expect people to throw you a party for it because that’s freakin weird!
I just don’t get complaining that people don’t heap respect on unemployed, childless women for doing a fraction of what everyone else has to do. It’s somewhat akin to complaining that no one understands how hard it is to win the lottery! Just be thankful that you are blessed enough to have that lifestyle!
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catholicwifeforlife1
Guest
That’s great for you. You obviously have been blessed with great health. If you read my reply earlier you will have noticed that I said I have health struggles. Also, My MIL knows about them. (I left that part out in my initial post for privacy sake. But I think my vague description will suffice.)
Also, in the case of MILs, I think it’s just a very unclassy thing to criticize people who your son married. If they have something good going for them, I don’t see the point in tearing them down. It reflects more on the criticizer’s character than anyone else’s. Especially since homemaking was a thing for hundreds of years until feminism threw it overboard for the sake of copying men (but let’s not get started on that). I don’t think women have to be wonder women in order to be useful in the world.
For me at least, I pray endlessly about this and frankly God wants me where I am right now. I’m sure if he wants me somewhere else, he will lead me there.
Also, in the case of MILs, I think it’s just a very unclassy thing to criticize people who your son married. If they have something good going for them, I don’t see the point in tearing them down. It reflects more on the criticizer’s character than anyone else’s. Especially since homemaking was a thing for hundreds of years until feminism threw it overboard for the sake of copying men (but let’s not get started on that). I don’t think women have to be wonder women in order to be useful in the world.
For me at least, I pray endlessly about this and frankly God wants me where I am right now. I’m sure if he wants me somewhere else, he will lead me there.
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Reuben_J
Guest
God bless you for what a wonderful person you are.
Whether one is working or a homemaker, it is a choice. There are benefits in both. I refer to my post again, and I just want to reaffirm that a homemaker, provided one can afford it, is indeed a saintly occupation. You are the foundation of your family, which is the most important thing in our lives - the domestic church.
If you have an average home, then surely there are lots of things to do. I feel guilty to share here, for ours probably is bigger than average, but nevertheless having my wife a homemaker is really the thing I desire and what she wants. Thus it is a choice for us, and for the much good of us all in the family. Sure, we could hire a helper, and we have one coming in to help on a part time basis, but it is nothing like the wife being the ‘boss’ in the house, her territory.
What we want to do with our household is all up to us. It is good that you want to have some insight here.
God bless you.
Whether one is working or a homemaker, it is a choice. There are benefits in both. I refer to my post again, and I just want to reaffirm that a homemaker, provided one can afford it, is indeed a saintly occupation. You are the foundation of your family, which is the most important thing in our lives - the domestic church.
If you have an average home, then surely there are lots of things to do. I feel guilty to share here, for ours probably is bigger than average, but nevertheless having my wife a homemaker is really the thing I desire and what she wants. Thus it is a choice for us, and for the much good of us all in the family. Sure, we could hire a helper, and we have one coming in to help on a part time basis, but it is nothing like the wife being the ‘boss’ in the house, her territory.
What we want to do with our household is all up to us. It is good that you want to have some insight here.
God bless you.
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Irishmom2
Guest
I am not sure why you responded like this to me directly… But I understand that not everyone is a SAH wife/mom. I did not imply that anyone deserves a party for what they do.
I merely said that the person in the post I was responding to did not take into account that there are some people that have a lot on their plate even though they have no children to care for, and do not work outside the home. I in no way intended, nor intend to turn this into a working mom versus SAH spouse type conversation.
I merely said that the person in the post I was responding to did not take into account that there are some people that have a lot on their plate even though they have no children to care for, and do not work outside the home. I in no way intended, nor intend to turn this into a working mom versus SAH spouse type conversation.
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heidi_storage
Guest
Anyone who’s living a decent life and not hurting others deserves respect. Even lottery winners. There is no social position that ought to be held in contempt except criminal or otherwise immoral ways of living. Props to you for taking care of business the best way you can, but scorn hurts everyone, even those “blessed” with a particular lifestyle.I just don’t get complaining that people don’t heap respect on unemployed, childless women for doing a fraction of what everyone else has to do. It’s somewhat akin to complaining that no one understands how hard it is to win the lottery! Just be thankful that you are blessed enough to have that lifestyle!
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Allegra
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There’s a difference between not having respect for something someone does or doesn’t do and disrespecting or scorning someone as a person. I agree, no one should be disrespected or scorned, and the MIL in the OP, who is opening and actively disrespecting her DIL is doing wrong. You can respect a person for the good things that they do even if you are neutral on the baseline normal stuff that they do. Heck, you can respect someone for the good that they do even if you very much disapprove of many of the things they do. What’s more, you can even respect someone for being a child of God even if you have absolutely no respect for anything they do. You can have the expectation that people will respect you as a person and treat you with kindness even if they don’t celebrate every mundane, normal thing you do.
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Allegra
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I responded to your post because the things you listed as being “a lot of someone’s plate” are on everyone’s plate. They are normal things that every functional adult has to do whether they work or not. I feel that you are incorrect that that poster didn’t take in to account that homemakers have to clean their house and by groceries. I’m sure they do take that into account because it goes without saying. If you want to eat, you have to buy food. If you have a floor under you, you have to sweep it. Unless you are dealing with a disabling mental or health condition, that doesn’t constitute “a lot on your plate.”
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catholicwifeforlife1
Guest
Thank you for your encouragement. Your wife sounds like an amazing woman. God bless your family.
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Irishmom2
Guest
I guess you must have missed this part:I responded to your post because the things you listed as being “a lot of someone’s plate” are on everyone’s plate. They are normal things that every functional adult has to do whether they work or not. I feel that you are incorrect that that poster didn’t take in to account that homemakers have to clean their house and by groceries. I’m sure they do take that into account because it goes without saying. If you want to eat, you have to buy food. If you have a floor under you, you have to sweep it. Unless you are dealing with a disabling mental or health condition, that doesn’t constitute “a lot on your plate.”
"Some people take over all of the home maintenance and repairs, yard work, painting, bill paying, running errands, and care for extended family members like parents and In-laws so they can remain in their own homes. "
If you consider that nothing, that is your opinion.
Be happy then that you are a Wonder Woman of sorts that can do it it all, and aren’t like "those other people. "
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Clementine14
Guest
I spent a few months after I was married without a job (but actively looking for one). During that time, I did all of the housework, including bill paying, grocery shopping, cleaning, laundry, cooking, and so forth. I do have health issues that incapacitate me for several days per month. But I still had so much free time. I could go to the library and check out books. I could go out to lunch. I could take walks. I could watch TV. It was lovely. But I understand why people would wonder what someone who is at home does. (I admit I don’t really understand why floors and bathrooms would need to be cleaned every day, especially with no children in the house.) I do all of the above now, and care for my child full time and work part time, and it’s exhausting. I would trade any of the free time I had then for a job to have saved more so I didn’t have to work as much now.
At the time, I do think that my husband resented getting up and going to work every day, even though he never said anything and knew I was looking for full time work, which I eventually did find. I felt guilty and weird, and tried to make up for it by cooking elaborate meals and making sure his clothes were perfectly ironed. The thing is, he didn’t really care about any of that- he prefers to be financially stable. I guess my point is, maybe your mother in law is worried about her son having to carry the burden of being the sole breadwinner (and it is a burden). These days, unless one spouse makes a great salary, it’s very hard to live on one income. Especially if you want to own a home someday. I wonder, is your husband really on board, and does he think you are doing just fine financially? If so, he probably really does enjoy the ability to only focus on work, and the extra time he gets to spend with you without worrying about his own laundry or cooking. That can be a great thing if both people are on board. But, since you mentioned being in school, is there an expectation that you will use your degree for paid employment when you are done?
There is no excuse at all for your mother-in-law’s behavior. It is atrocious. She needs to keep her mouth shut, and keep her opinions to herself. But you haven’t really mentioned that your husband is sticking up for you, or taking her inappropriateness seriously. If he’s really okay with the way things are, he should be able to have a conversation with his mother, and make it clear that the two of you have decided together how to manage your own household, and that he will not tolerate any more badmouthing of you, whether he is around or not.
At the time, I do think that my husband resented getting up and going to work every day, even though he never said anything and knew I was looking for full time work, which I eventually did find. I felt guilty and weird, and tried to make up for it by cooking elaborate meals and making sure his clothes were perfectly ironed. The thing is, he didn’t really care about any of that- he prefers to be financially stable. I guess my point is, maybe your mother in law is worried about her son having to carry the burden of being the sole breadwinner (and it is a burden). These days, unless one spouse makes a great salary, it’s very hard to live on one income. Especially if you want to own a home someday. I wonder, is your husband really on board, and does he think you are doing just fine financially? If so, he probably really does enjoy the ability to only focus on work, and the extra time he gets to spend with you without worrying about his own laundry or cooking. That can be a great thing if both people are on board. But, since you mentioned being in school, is there an expectation that you will use your degree for paid employment when you are done?
There is no excuse at all for your mother-in-law’s behavior. It is atrocious. She needs to keep her mouth shut, and keep her opinions to herself. But you haven’t really mentioned that your husband is sticking up for you, or taking her inappropriateness seriously. If he’s really okay with the way things are, he should be able to have a conversation with his mother, and make it clear that the two of you have decided together how to manage your own household, and that he will not tolerate any more badmouthing of you, whether he is around or not.
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Allegra
Guest
Who do you think does those things for everyone else?
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Allegra
Guest
PS- If you think I’m claiming to be Wonder Woman, you are totally missing my point. Let’s go down your list. If working people don’t take care of their home, it falls into disrepair and they have an unsafe home. If working people don’t do their yard work, the county fines them and they might have a lean on their property. If working people don’t paint their house, they have to live with dull, fading paint. If working people don’t pay their bills they have any number of crises upon them. If they don’t run errands then their family can’t function. If they don’t at least arrange care for their elderly relatives, they will die. Do you think this is how most of the world lives? It isn’t. Everybody has to do all of those things, even if they are raising children and even if they work. They are obligatory. If you don’t do them, you get to live in rags under a bridge, begging for spare change. Even then, you have to actually go and buy the food somewhere and replace your cardboard from time to time. Expecting praise for stuff like that is silly. I think you are projecting your own insecurity on to me. I don’t look down on people who have the means to not work. As I said in my earlier post, “more power to them” as long as they aren’t doing it on the tax-payers dime and their spouse is on board with the plan. I just don’t see any reason to admire them for it.
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