Being a lawyer for the poor?

[adawgj]

I’m thinking about becoming a lawyer after college. However I don’t want to do it for money. I mostly want to help those who cannot afford lawyers be represented.

Basically I would take cases practically for free.

Now is this possible?

 

[CaliLobo]

Of course. There are many opportunities to be a public interest lawyer, public defender, or to be court-appointed counsel for a case.

In addition, people around you are always looking for some legal help or another. Often it’s with battles that are very uphill. Like, how do I reverse a plea of guilty? (File a motion, but it will be difficult.) Can I use the security deposit to pay the final month’s rent? (Only if landlord agrees, but why would he?)

In addition, it’s not the poor that need more representation. I believe the underrepresented people today are the middle class. Most attorneys are not willing to take a lawsuit worth ONLY $10,000. But that’s around how much middle-class Americans tend to sue for, for their business and contract problems.

Paying back educational debt is an issue.

 

[adawgj]

Of course. There are many opportunities to be a public interest lawyer, public defender, or to be court-appointed counsel for a case.

In addition, people around you are always looking for some legal help or another. Often it’s with battles that are very uphill. Like, how do I reverse a plea of guilty? (File a motion, but it will be difficult.) Can I use the security deposit to pay the final month’s rent? (Only if landlord agrees, but why would he?)

In addition, it’s not the poor that need more representation. I believe the underrepresented people today are the middle class. Most attorneys are not willing to take a lawsuit worth ONLY $10,000. But that’s around how much middle-class Americans tend to sue for, for their business and contract problems.

Paying back educational debt is an issue.

Very true the middle class should be better represented.

Education funding will be an issue, better start saving while I still can.

 

[Exiled_Child]

I’m thinking about becoming a lawyer after college. However I don’t want to do it for money. I mostly want to help those who cannot afford lawyers be represented.

Basically I would take cases practically for free.

Now is this possible?

I recently read an extremely interesting article on a lawyer for the poor in San Francisco:
sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Tony-Serra-a-tireless-courtroom-Verbal-Warrior-5633280.php
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Serra
He has his faults to be sure, but his life story is super entertaining if nothing else!

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I’m thinking about becoming a lawyer after college. However I don’t want to do it for money. I mostly want to help those who cannot afford lawyers be represented.

Basically I would take cases practically for free.

Now is this possible?

Look up a documentary called “Gideon’s Army.” I think it’s available on Netflix and possible HBO GO.

 

[Petaro]

I’m thinking about becoming a lawyer after college. However I don’t want to do it for money. I mostly want to help those who cannot afford lawyers be represented.

Basically I would take cases practically for free.

Now is this possible?

It is a very good aspiration, however you have to eat! You have to pay off your uni fees, pay your rent buy a couple of good suits, rent, electricity, heating.
I would suggest you get good experience as a baby lawyer in a good firm, do some pro bono work for sure, but get experience in the areas you feel comfortable in. Law is a rich area where you can do great good by keeping your fees reasonable without working for nothing. You will learn that no one respects something they get for nothing.But may the Holy Spirit guide you in knowledge and wisdom and let charity to the poor be your professional honour.

 

[Auntie_A]

Very true the middle class should be better represented.

Education funding will be an issue, better start saving while I still can.

Also our elders need good lawyers to protect themselves from a number of abuses, especially financial abuse. Many people, including some families, deliberately or unknowingly, go after their elder’s money, leaving them vulnerable or broke at a point in their life when they need their savings.

We have elder law but people don’t honor those laws.

 

[on_the_hill]

I’m not a lawyer, but many of the people I work with are lawyers, and they represent a cross section of clients, from the destitute to the very wealthy.

First off, law school student loans are ridiculously burdensome. You’ll have to make enough money to pay them off, although there are state and federal loan forgiveness programs for serving in certain areas of the law.

Second, lawyer salaries are far from what they used to be.

Third, most lawyers I know give the same advice to college students who are considering law school: don’t do it. The money and opportunities aren’t there.

That being said, if you’re truly interested in helping poor/middle class people, you could consider working as a public defender. The average starting salary for a PD is in the high $30k range, so the payoff, especially with student debt, is barely worth it. Several years in, you can expect to crack $40k. However, you’ll get more than your fill of helping people. I’ve met with about a dozen public defenders who have years of experience. The caseload is insane, the hours unbearable, the pay is a pittance, training is negligible, you’ll show up your first day out of law school and be handed a stack of case files and have absolutely no clue about how to handle them (law schools teach Law, not the nuts & bolts of being a practicing attorney), and people’s lives and livelihoods will be your responsibility. As one chief PD said, “You won’t even know how to file a motion and you’ll be expected to be in court arguing your case.” In some jurisdictions, PDs are stretched across large geographic areas and literally use their cars as their offices.

And yet every single one of the PDs I’ve met are totally devoted to their vocation.

 

[captainrick]

Also our elders need good lawyers to protect themselves from a number of abuses, especially financial abuse. Many people, including some families, deliberately or unknowingly, go after their elder’s money, leaving them vulnerable or broke at a point in their life when they need their savings.

We have elder law but people don’t honor those laws.

There are lots of ways to help people without charging them, but still support yourself.

As a civilian lawyer I was a state attorney, enforcing health facility regulations, ensuring that the elderly in nursing homes received decent care, and prosecuting those who abused them.

As a JAG officer I provided legal assistance for soldiers and their families, which was of course free for them.

Good luck!

 

[marymary1975]

First off, law school student loans are ridiculously burdensome. You’ll have to make enough money to pay them off, although there are state and federal loan forgiveness programs for serving in certain areas of the law.

Second, lawyer salaries are far from what they used to be.

Third, most lawyers I know give the same advice to college students who are considering law school: don’t do it. The money and opportunities aren’t there.

That being said, if you’re truly interested in helping poor/middle class people, you could consider working as a public defender. The average starting salary for a PD is in the high $30k range, so the payoff, especially with student debt, is barely worth it. Several years in, you can expect to crack $40k. However, you’ll get more than your fill of helping people. I’ve met with about a dozen public defenders who have years of experience. The caseload is insane, the hours unbearable, the pay is a pittance, training is negligible,

And yet every single one of the PDs I’ve met are totally devoted to their vocation.

I am a lawyer myself and every point that on the hill has stated is the pure truth. I have to say that many people, hey including me back in the day, before starting law school or on their first year, had a similar feeling. They want to be lawyers to do “justice” or to help the poor. It doesn’t take too long to realize that reality is very very different. I don’t want to sound harsh but the idea is not realistic. First if you want to do justice you are in the wrong field. Sorry that is the truth. Second as on the hill stated, law school loans are ridiculously high, law school is very very expensive. I know too many unemployed lawyers and too many with salaries under 50k. Also usually payments for student loans are $1000.00 per month and the student loan companies usually will make you pay that amount even with low salaries. I know two people paying around $900 a month and their salaries are around 40-45k. And even if you are unemployed they do give you some forbearance but that is a kiss of death because the interest during that period sky rocket. And remember student loans are not dischargeable debt. You will get stuck with thrm until you die.

Also the fees for keeping yourself active in the bar are high too and even before that just taking a bar is ridiculously expensive. So before even thinking about helping the poor you will have to spend a lot and I mean a lot of money. Take that into consideration.

To anyone that says to me that they want to be a lawyer, I tell them unless you get a scholarship and you get accepted to a tier 1 law school ( a school with a high ranking) do not do it. If you get a super high score on the LSAT and get accepted to Standford or Yale or Harvard, well then you probably should because if you come out of the top 3 probably you would have jobs waiting for you. But anything oryher the top 5 law schools get a scholarship. Otherwise loans will kill you.

Now, most states do require to do some pro bono work which is very nice and there is lawyer of the day in which you can go and give advice to people for free. Many lawyers do that as part of their practice. They take regular clients and at the same time do pro bono. But taking all cases practically for free…totally unrealistic. Do you realize that Courts cost money too? That there are filing fees for everything, for every paper you do there is some kind of fee, there are court expenses, copying expenses and many many more. Who is going to pay that? Areyou going to put $400-$500 up front per case out of your own pocket without no remuneration for it? You will go bankrupt before you get to help anyone.

So I believe you need to re think in a more realistic way. On the hill is right about PD, and as I said there is pro bono work but I think before going into a career you need to look at the facts and reality and make a determination based on reality and if it is law, based on your lsat scores and the offers you get.

 

[marymary1975]

Very true the middle class should be better represented.

Education funding will be an issue, better start saving while I still can.

Oh and I just noticed you are in CA! CA has an even worst situation because California has the particular problem of having all these unnacredited law schools and all these online schools. Due to that the market for lawyers in CA is even worst. Oh and I am here giving a very important advice that you need: DO NOT…never EVER in your life…go to a non-ABA approved law school. NEVER!!!

I repeat unless you get accepted to Stanford or another university high ranked and get scholarships, it is not a good idea. The bar in CA is incredibly difficult and actually for next year they are modyfying the bar and making it even worst and their fees are high. You need to consider reality very carefully before jumping into this.

 

[Cone]

I’m thinking about becoming a lawyer after college. However I don’t want to do it for money. I mostly want to help those who cannot afford lawyers be represented.

Basically I would take cases practically for free.

Now is this possible?

How will you earn a living?

 

[SuperLuigi]

How will you earn a living?

:clapping:

That’s a great question.

 

[Auntie_A]

Also our elders need good lawyers to protect themselves from a number of abuses, especially financial abuse. Many people, including some families, deliberately or unknowingly, go after their elder’s money, leaving them vulnerable or broke at a point in their life when they need their savings.

We have elder law but people don’t honor those laws.

Work men’s comp law is another good way to help the struggling. Also immigration law. Be sure to learn a language or two, Spanish especially. Get your English, office, accounting, and managerial skills, too, so you can keep your practice. I have met many lawyers that can’t keep working because they messed up the business end. So even if money will not be a great goal for you, make sure that poor money management will not be your obstacle.

 

[signit]

How will you earn a living?

Legal service agencies that provide services for the poor do pay their attorneys (for example, from government funds); it’s just that the clients don’t pay.

And paid attorneys do pro bono work on the side here and there, like the attorney who helped my neighbor I posted about a few years ago who was cheated out of her house and evicted. He did quite a bit of work for her in his spare time and never charged a cent.

 

[Havard]

CA lawyer here, though I am now pursuing a different path with a religious vocation.

Here’s something to consider.

San Mateo County (Bay Area) has a successful Private Defender Program, which gives lawyers in private practice an opportunity to defend the indigent. In fact, the County outsources all indigent defense - there are no public defenders - to the local bar association, who pays out reasonable fees to private practice lawyers for their services.

It’s a great opportunity for lawyers to help those who couldn’t otherwise afford their representation.

 

[CaliLobo]

Hey OP,
I’m gonna say that everything on_the_hill and marymary1975 said is true, but if you have the genuine passion, then you should go for a career in law.

The passion must be genuine. It must be the type that says you don’t just want, but NEED this, and that you would be depressed if you don’t have it.

As the economy slumps, consumers become wiser, and technology obviates (makes unnecessary) the need for services that were needed before, the field of law is struggling, changing, and not as lucrative as it used to be.

But guess what? That’s true of every field. Every field is changing for the same reasons. Look at how retail of all kinds is struggling thanks to the Internet. Retail therefore has to change and create new competitive advantages to make itself relevant. (A lesson for the Church!)

In every field, some people make millions, and others barely survive. No field is more lucrative than another, from a broad perspective. Some plumbers make more than some lawyers. But do you have what it takes to be a good plumber? I’ve honestly told the handyman at my former apartment complex that his job is valuable, and I can’t do what he does.

When children become too expensive, divorce becomes too easy, and healthy food is more expensive than unhealthy food, we know that capitalism has reached its ugly limit. It will be up to young people to figure out new ways to survive and coexist economically.

The opportunities are there as long as you know that the big law firm model of summer positions leading to $160,000/year job offers is breaking down. It used to be that a summer position should lead to a job offer, and if you didn’t get an offer, it was a kiss of death to your resume that career counselors spent disproportionate time on. But now, thanks to the economy, many firms can’t offer those positions, for no fault of the intern! What can career services do about that?

The opportunities are there as long as you’re willing to be geographically flexible. I went all the way to New Mexico for a really good gig. I have another friend who could not find a job after two years, because he wasn’t geographically flexible. (He had bad grades from a mediocre school so what was he doing not being flexible?)

The opportunities are there if you’re willing to volunteer for a little bit. In big cities there are several ways to volunteer in family law, immigration law, and criminal law. As jobs are harder to get right away, and as school skimp on practical training, these volunteer gigs are actually very useful to the industry.

PM me if you want more advice, I’m happy to provide.

 

[adawgj]

It is a very good aspiration, however you have to eat! You have to pay off your uni fees, pay your rent buy a couple of good suits, rent, electricity, heating.
I would suggest you get good experience as a baby lawyer in a good firm, do some pro bono work for sure, but get experience in the areas you feel comfortable in. Law is a rich area where you can do great good by keeping your fees reasonable without working for nothing. You will learn that no one respects something they get for nothing.But may the Holy Spirit guide you in knowledge and wisdom and let charity to the poor be your professional honour.

Fortunately I have years to save up for law school. Experience would definitely be a good factor. From what it sounds like I will have to go to a cheap good law school.

 

[adawgj]

Hey OP,
I’m gonna say that everything on_the_hill and marymary1975 said is true, but if you have the genuine passion, then you should go for a career in law.

The passion must be genuine. It must be the type that says you don’t just want, but NEED this, and that you would be depressed if you don’t have it.

As the economy slumps, consumers become wiser, and technology obviates (makes unnecessary) the need for services that were needed before, the field of law is struggling, changing, and not as lucrative as it used to be.

But guess what? That’s true of every field. Every field is changing for the same reasons. Look at how retail of all kinds is struggling thanks to the Internet. Retail therefore has to change and create new competitive advantages to make itself relevant. (A lesson for the Church!)

In every field, some people make millions, and others barely survive. No field is more lucrative than another, from a broad perspective. Some plumbers make more than some lawyers. But do you have what it takes to be a good plumber? I’ve honestly told the handyman at my former apartment complex that his job is valuable, and I can’t do what he does.

When children become too expensive, divorce becomes too easy, and healthy food is more expensive than unhealthy food, we know that capitalism has reached its ugly limit. It will be up to young people to figure out new ways to survive and coexist economically.

The opportunities are there as long as you know that the big law firm model of summer positions leading to $160,000/year job offers is breaking down. It used to be that a summer position should lead to a job offer, and if you didn’t get an offer, it was a kiss of death to your resume that career counselors spent disproportionate time on. But now, thanks to the economy, many firms can’t offer those positions, for no fault of the intern! What can career services do about that?

The opportunities are there as long as you’re willing to be geographically flexible. I went all the way to New Mexico for a really good gig. I have another friend who could not find a job after two years, because he wasn’t geographically flexible. (He had bad grades from a mediocre school so what was he doing not being flexible?)

The opportunities are there if you’re willing to volunteer for a little bit. In big cities there are several ways to volunteer in family law, immigration law, and criminal law. As jobs are harder to get right away, and as school skimp on practical training, these volunteer gigs are actually very useful to the industry.

PM me if you want more advice, I’m happy to provide.

Thanks for the advice. Like I said I’m not in it for the money (just enough to keep me living decent). Geographically flexible would be a good idea. Especially the way jobs pop up more in different states.

 

[adawgj]

CA lawyer here, though I am now pursuing a different path with a religious vocation.

Here’s something to consider.

San Mateo County (Bay Area) has a successful Private Defender Program, which gives lawyers in private practice an opportunity to defend the indigent. In fact, the County outsources all indigent defense - there are no public defenders - to the local bar association, who pays out reasonable fees to private practice lawyers for their services.

It’s a great opportunity for lawyers to help those who couldn’t otherwise afford their representation.

Always nice to hear from a lawyer. Thanks for the advice.