Being a lawyer- you have to lie?

[Elizabeth502]

Again, I think if the OP does her research, and picks & chooses, she will be fine. Depending on the field she settles in, she may have to continue to watch for pitfalls, just as those of us in different professions need to – maybe some of us just as much so, some of us less so (or even more so). Working in the world is not working in a convent or monastery. Not everyone in every profession will share the same moral high ground, let alone a Catholic social justice one.

For example, although my profession (education) is, like the law, based on ideals as its foundation, there are plenty of unethical pitfalls I find myself having to avoid & disassociate myself from. My boss often wants me to lie to parents, or shade the truth. (Same thing. ) He’s not a part of my conversations with parents; I tell it to them ‘straight up.’ And believe me, they are most appreciative. They say, ‘thank you for your honesty.’ I have to be honest with students in a way that many in my profession will not. Etc. And my expectations for my own performance are higher than that of many of my peers, because that is also part of morality/justice. (It’s part of the integrity of being in a profession.)

We all have to keep our moral rudders upright and in good repair against the countervailing winds.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

For you to make this claim would mean that you know all lawyers which I highly doubt you even know a minority people who make up the profession of lawyer in the United States let alone the world.

It just shows your ignorance. Love the ignore list.

 

[athair_siochain]

For you to make this claim would mean that you know all lawyers which I highly doubt you even know a minority people who make up the profession of lawyer in the United States let alone the world.

It just shows your ignorance. Love the ignore list.

Over a period of 3yrs I only managed to check out 50 lawyers, with the help of many friends, I did not find one who was not collecting rent, so this figure goes a long way to support what I said… I was shocked to find most of our lawyer politicians are landlords . they will work for better returns on their investments, rents are are based on the value of the investment, not the value of the comforts of the tenants. ,
Lawyers can say they dont lie. they have a choice of words to use , you only have to listen to lawyer politicians pulling the wool over peoples eyes…

The Title of this thread is not a lie,?

 

[FairyGirl]

Being a lawyer, you don’t have to lie.

 

[athair_siochain]

Both my dad and brother are lawyers. And they don’t lie.

You can present the truth from different points of view, but that’s not lying.

I mean, if a lawyer lies, especially in court, they can get in a bit of trouble. They are simply advocating for their clients - the trick is to not get any information that could sway the case against your client. So dont’ ever ask them if they “did it”. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and simply advocate for their best outcome. My dad always said if he thought or “knew” the client was guilty, he’d advise the client to plead guilty and then he’d argue for a more lenient sentence.

All professions have liars and cheats, but for some reason, people really don’t like lawyers./QUOTE

True but they dont spend years learning how to disassemble the truth, you cant change a apple into a orange, unless the apple is a disguised orange,

 

[LilyM]

Over a period of 3yrs I only managed to check out 50 lawyers, with the help of many friends, I did not find one who was not collecting rent, so this figure goes a long way to support what I said… I was shocked to find most of our lawyer politicians are landlords . they will work for better returns on their investments, rents are are based on the value of the investment, not the value of the comforts of the tenants. ,
Lawyers can say they dont lie. they have a choice of words to use , you only have to listen to lawyer politicians pulling the wool over peoples eyes…

The Title of this thread is not a lie,?

Wow. I know at least three (including myself) among the 8 or so in my own office who don’t collect rent. And at least two others from other offices. And the only reason I don’t know more is that I simply haven’t asked!

One of us has a skewed sample. I probably know more lawyers than you, so that’d suggest it’s less likely to be me than you.

As for ‘lawyers have a choice of words to use’, yes we do. So do you.

I bet if your beloved spouse pulled the old ‘honey, does my bum look big in this?’ question, or your beloved grandmother the old ‘how did you like my chocolate cake?’ you’d choose your words very very carefully even if you thought the clothing hideous or the chocolate cake horrible.

And what’s the worst that could happen to you if you either lie or are hurtfully honest to your spouse or grandmother? Nothing at all compared to what lawyers and politicians face if they either lie or are hurtfully honest.

 

[athair_siochain]

Wow. I know at least three (including myself) among the 8 or so in my own office who don’t collect rent. And at least two others from other offices. And the only reason I don’t know more is that I simply haven’t asked!

One of us has a skewed sample. I probably know more lawyers than you, so that’d suggest it’s less likely to be me than you.

As for ‘lawyers have a choice of words to use’, yes we do. So do you.

I bet if your beloved spouse pulled the old ‘honey, does my bum look big in this?’ question, or your beloved grandmother the old ‘how did you like my chocolate cake?’ you’d choose your words very very carefully even if you thought the clothing hideous or the chocolate cake horrible.

And what’s the worst that could happen to you if you either lie or are hurtfully honest to your spouse or grandmother? Nothing at all compared to what lawyers and politicians face if they either lie or are hurtfully honest.

What is wrong with being honest,

you said 50% of the lawyers in your office dont collect rent, maybe they will down the track. even you admitted 50% wow, that sure is proof that I am correct,

Landlords and moneylenders are parasites who legally own property that someone else (tenant/ borrower ) is financing. ,

 

[Cat_Herder]

Landlords and moneylenders are parasites who legally own property that someone else (tenant/ borrower ) is financing. ,

When you’ve worked all your life and built apartments with the expectation of using the rental income to put your kids through school and then to retire, you’ll understand.

 

[athair_siochain]

When you’ve worked all your life and built apartments with the expectation of using the rental income to put your kids through school and then to retire, you’ll understand.

I do understand, I can see the world through your eyes,

Those who will finance your kids higher education, and your early retirement, they are the victims who do the real work in our society.
Travelling the highways I have often seen signs on the back of motor homes.

“My Tenants are paying for my vacation” that,s pushing the greed thing too far, but what can you expect. it has been made legal to have others pay the price of blind greed,
We are getting of track hear. the thread is about Lawyers do they lie???

 

[LilyM]

True but they dont spend years learning how to disassemble the truth, you cant change a apple into a orange, unless the apple is a disguised orange,

Neither can a lawyer, metaphorically speaking, change an apple into an orange. Nor do they try to.

They can’t, for example, claim that their client is innocent if they know the client is not. Or claim an alibi that they know is false. Or claim that their client doesn’t have a criminal record if they do. Or claim that their client is of good character if they’re not. Now if they try any of this, the prosecution usually is every bit as well-informed as the defence, and can easily contradict false assertions.

If a lawyer does otherwise than tell the truth, then they are breaching the code of ethics of their profession. In other words they’re doing something lawyers are NOT supposed to do, something that they could in fact suffer grave consequences and be disbarred for. Yes, some do so, but that’s not to say all or most do.

By your logic, all priests must be pedophiles, since some of them tragically, in defiance of every rule and regulation and precept priests are taught, do abuse children. By your logic, all doctors must be murderers, since some of them, tragically, in defiance of every rule and regulation and precept doctors are taught, do coldbloodedly kill people.

What is wrong with being honest,

you said 50% of the lawyers in your office dont collect rent, maybe they will down the track. even you admitted 50% wow, that sure is proof that I am correct,

Landlords and moneylenders are parasites who legally own property that someone else (tenant/ borrower ) is financing. ,

What does any of this have to do with anything? It’s not as if it’s particular to lawyers as opposed to other professions, for starters. Neither does charging too much rent, bad though it is, have anything whatsoever to do with lying.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

What does any of this have to do with anything? It’s not as if it’s particular to lawyers as opposed to other professions, for starters. Neither does charging too much rent, bad though it is, have anything whatsoever to do with lying.

And, anyways, how do we define “charing too much rent”?

Why is it all of a sudden that property owners who rent out their properties are evil and dishonest?

 

[Cat_Herder]

I do understand, I can see the world through your eyes,

Those who will finance your kids higher education, and your early retirement, they are the victims who do the real work in our society.

Somebody has to build the apartments, my friend. It costs money.

If you let entrepreneurs do it, that’s capitalism. But you don’t like this arrangement. Here are the alternatives:

1. Let the government do it and own all the housing. This is communism. It has been done to death and it doesn’t work.
2. Have the tenants invest in a trust that owns apartments, or in a condominium development, so that they are co-owners rather than tenants. This is distributism and it is fair. It is also possible today. There are lots of condos and real estate investment trusts. The tenant just has to work hard and invest the money to buy a share.

 

[athair_siochain]

Well, I am planning on studying law and eventually becoming a lawyer. People have always told me lawyers need to lie constantly. Which makes me wonder (and I’m sorry if this makes me seems ignorant), would I be put in a position to have to lie all the time? And does this mean I should consider another career? I would rather work towards another career than have to ignore my moral beliefs.

Thanks and God bless.

Its rare for lawyers to commit purgery for the simple reason that lawyers generally do not make statements under oath, thats what witnesses do, instead lawyers make arguments based on the testimony of witnesses but they dont under oath.

A lawyer shall not “knowingly” make a false statement of material facts, the key word here is “knowingly”.
This protects the lawyers against allegations that they lied.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Its rare for lawyers to commit purgery for the simple reason that lawyers generally do not make statements under oath,

Lawyers are under a continuing oath as officers of the court.

The judge can and will investigate false statements made by lawyers to determine if there was a knowing misrepresentation to the court.

 

[LilyM]

Lawyers are under a continuing oath as officers of the court.

The judge can and will investigate false statements made by lawyers to determine if there was a knowing misrepresentation to the court.

Exactly so - I have a duty to the court, which IS a duty binding under oath/affirmation just as serious as a witness’ testimony, to be honest in what I tell the court.

In fact there are various times when a lawyer HAS to disclose to the court information which is unfavourable to his or her client’s case. At such times they have no option of either withholding the information or pretending they’re not aware of it or any other tricksiness, however much they or the client may want to do so.

 

[athair_siochain]

And, anyways, how do we define “charing too much rent”?

Why is it all of a sudden that property owners who rent out their properties are evil and dishonest?

There are over 800.000 blogs on greedy landlords, what does that say

 

[Cat_Herder]

There are over 800.000 blogs on greedy landlords, what does that say

That there are 800000 people who should chip in, buy their own estate and build their own tenement, or petition their Parliament/Legislature for reform, etc.

 

[AHapka]

Landlords and moneylenders are parasites who legally own property that someone else (tenant/ borrower ) is financing. ,

Then I assume you also have never rented a place to live, or ever lent a dollar in your life. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite and aren’t willing to stand up for what you believe in.

 

[AHapka]

Actually what always struck me as a former deputy sheriff was that I made more money then the DA’s in our county. Also, lawyers who primarily do traffic or public defender work aren’t too well paid, either.

 

[athair_siochain]

Then I assume you also have never rented a place to live, or ever lent a dollar in your life. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite and aren’t willing to stand up for what you believe in.

YOU SEEM TO FORGET we still live in a system controlled by landlords and money lenders. every individual even the landlords and money lenders pay rent and interest, everything you buy has rent and interest built in to the cost. even when you buy a loaf of bread, you could be helping to support a hundred landlords money lenders, the sad part is most lawyers are landlords or moneylenders. back to the loaf of bread , from a seed of wheat to the supermarket shelf, every step of the way, they are getting their cut, I might be taking this too far, all I ask is ,"How many landlords and moneylenders are involved " in creating the loaf of bread.

Nodding ones head to approve a false statement is lying.