Being a traditional Catholic in a Novus Ordo parish

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pnewton said:
You can find many uses of the word novus back when it was actually novus. Let me ask this. If a woman married a widower, how do you think she would respond to being called the man’s new wife that year? How do you think she would feel about this if she was called the man’s new wife after twenty years of marriage?
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Respectfully, I think that’s a poor analogy. Please get back to me when the Novus Ordo has been around for almost 1,600 years. Compared to that, 40 years is a drop in the bucket.

Besides, I think you missed my point, which is that the pope himself called it the “Novus Ordo,” (so there’s no harm in using that term) and then there’s the apparent contradiction: is it a new rite (Paul VI) or just the ordinary form of the same Roman rite (Benedict XVI)?
 
Both the Tridentine/Traditional/Latin/Extraordinary, and the Novus Ordo/Ordinary done in the local language, can have abuses that can cause weakening of the Faith.
catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/03/03/cardinal-bad-masses-weaken-the-faith/

If for any reason a Priest or parishioners do not follow the GIRM (General Instruction for the Roman Missal) talk to your Pastor. If that does not work, talk or send an email to your Diocese Bishop.
usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml (Novus Ordo)
or
1962 Missal (which is available through Catholic catalogs) (Latin)

As we all know, it is against the Third Commandment and the First Precept of the Church to miss Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of obligation. (a mortal sin)

Per Pope Benedict, each Priest (not the local Bishop) can determine if he wants to say Mass in the NO form and/or Latin form.
This is usually based on enough interest to have both Forms in his own Parish.
Remember that many Priests over the last 45 years have not been trained in the Latin form and this would require a special effort on his part. Training is available.

For those who may have spiritual concerns, try this on a daily basis:
divineoffice.org/

Let us always remember in love, charity, and obedience that both Forms of the Mass are approved and therefore correct.
Pope Benedict in his wisdom recognizes the need for both Forms of the Mass to meet the spiritual needs of his people.

The newly approved Liturgy effective in the US on Nov 27, 2011 will bring some of the language closer in the two forms.
usccb.org/romanmissal/

God bless our Pope, Bishops and Priests. Pray for them daily.
What would we do without them ! 👍
 
ANNE_2 said:
Per Pope Benedict, each Priest (not the local Bishop) can determine if he wants to say Mass in the NO form and/or Latin form.
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The NOM (or the OF) can be partially or fully said in its “Latin form.” It was promulgated in Latin. In fact, you may frequently hear the Pope say the NOM in Latin.
 
SouthpawLink said:
Respectfully, I think that’s a poor analogy. Please get back to me when the Novus Ordo has been around for almost 1,600 years. Compared to that, 40 years is a drop in the bucket.
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Why 1600 years? You are not under the misconception that Jesus instituted the Tridentine Mass in the upper room are you? Maybe this explains why you still think my analogy is poor. I guess even after everyone who lived in the sixties is dead, you still think it is new. :rolleyes:

I can retire now and I was a child in the sixties. I think the fact that the Church has dropped the term should ring our clue phone. Or we can keep quoting decades old official statements.
 
Well this is what I do. I will either attend an EF Mass in the Diocese(Allentown) next to mine, which is the only EF Mass close to me. And is about 17(one way) miles away. Or I will attend, more frequently, one of the local UGCCs’ or Ruthenian Churches. I have also been allowed, by the Byzantine Catholic clergy, to attend a local Orthodox Church’s Saturday night Vespers, since they don’t offer a Saturday night Vesper service. This is to allow me to practice the Byzantine tradition more fully. And to learn more about it. I know how you feel. The OF Mass (aka NO), is no longer an option for me in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia. They are all the same, with the same abuses. One example: I attended Easter Mass at a local NO parish this year, mainly because I work grave yard shift, and I needed to get to an early Mass. The Mass was filled to the brim, the music was guitar contemporary, and the sermon from the priest, who was an Oblate of St. Francis de Sales, talked about a Quaker and quoted from a Baptist preacher. I guess none of the centuries of Catholic Saints were worth quoting from. I sent the pastor an e-mail about what I felt of his Easter Mass, and it went in one ear and out the other. Basically, we need to cater to everyone, so forget about the rubrics and the faith passed on. I’ll leave it there!. I’ll pray that you find a good parish!!.
 
bkovacs said:
The Mass was filled to the brim, the music was guitar contemporary, and the sermon from the priest, who was an Oblate of St. Francis de Sales, talked about a Quaker and quoted from a Baptist preacher. I guess none of the centuries of Catholic Saints were worth quoting from.
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For Jesus Christ and for the Church (at least since Vatican II) the gentiles and the non Catholics are important persons too. Why is it abuse to follow Jesus Christ and the Church in a sermon which is not regulated by any rubrics?
 
Because lazlo, when I go to a Catholic Mass, I want all things Catholic!. Even the sermon preached to be about the Catholic faith, and things quoted from “Catholic” Saints, Doctors of the Church, ect… If I wanted to here quotes from protestants, than I would go to a protestant service.
 
laszlo said:
Catholic means to follow Christ and the hierarchy, not to your own judment.
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Your right there!. Tell that to the protestants. And those who like to quote from them, and follow their examples.
 
pnewton said:
Why 1600 years? You are not under the misconception that Jesus instituted the Tridentine Mass in the upper room are you? Maybe this explains why you still think my analogy is poor. I guess even after everyone who lived in the sixties is dead, you still think it is new. :rolleyes:

I can retire now and I was a child in the sixties. I think the fact that the Church has dropped the term should ring our clue phone. Or we can keep quoting decades old official statements.
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Sixteen-hundred years is not two-thousand years, so I’m not sure why you’d think that.

Anyway, the Mass started to be said in Latin in the third century, and it was solidified by the sixth century. The Roman Canon remained unchanged from the time of Pope St. Gregory the Great (d. 604) until Pope John XXIII introduced St. Joseph into it in 1962. That’s 1,360 years without change.

“No pope has added to or changed the Canon since St. Gregory,” says Benedict XIV (De SS. Missæ Sacr., 162: Catholic Encyclopedia, Canon of the Mass).

And again, my question is left unanswered: is the NOM a new rite (Paul VI) or a different form (Benedict XVI) of the same Roman rite?
 
SouthpawLink said:
And again, my question is left unanswered: is the NOM a new rite (Paul VI) or a different form (Benedict XVI) of the same Roman rite?
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Pope Benedict XVI answered your question:
The Roman Missal promulgated by Paul VI is the ordinary expression of the ‘Lex orandi’ (Law of prayer) of the Catholic Church of the Latin rite. Nonetheless, the Roman Missal promulgated by St. Pius V and reissued by Bl. John XXIII is to be considered as an extraordinary expression of that same ‘Lex orandi,’ and must be given due honour for its venerable and ancient usage. These two expressions of the Church’s Lex orandi will in no any way lead to a division in the Church’s ‘Lex credendi’ (Law of belief). They are, in fact two usages of the one Roman rite.
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sanctamissa.org/en/resour…ontificum.html
 
I agree with you, Bkovacs. Its why our little group of Catholics is fighting so hard for the 1962 Mass. and we have been approved by our local pastor.
 
Monica, I haven’t read through all the replies, so forgive me if I am repeating something.

I wouldn’t say that I have gone through exactly what you’re going through, but something similar. In my undergrad days, I was privileged to be part of a very orthodox, dynamic Newman Center. I and many, many of my friends experienced a similar “famine of the spirit” when graduating and moving onward to parishes that seemed lukewarm by comparison.

I would encourage you to really take it to prayer (as I am sure you are doing). I am sure you are supremely thankful for the time that you have been so abundantly nourished in your present locale. Perhaps now God is calling you forward to share the spiritual nourishment you have received in order be that leaven in your parish back at home. Someone has to do it, right? 😉

I say this more as a self-condemnation than anything (so feel free to take it or leave it), but I know for me it became easy to look primarily for places for me to “be fed” rather than looking for opportunities to feed others. We need to be on guard for that. Again for myself, I feel that it made it easy for me to shirk my responsibility to be a Witness of the Gospel because I was still in the “learning” stage but never moving beyond that to share what I learned.

Certainly, I wouldn’t advocate joining the most liberal, wacked-out parish you can find to engage in some good, ol’-fashioned banging-your-head-against-the-wall. However, you said your parish back home is not horrible nor rife with liturgical abuse, so I don’t think that’s the situation you will find yourself in.

In any case, it’s just something to consider. God bless!
 
Monica4316 said:
thanks for the prayers 🙂

I think that if a person has an opportunity to go to a Latin Mass parish, they should… but if their only option is Novus Ordo, that doesn’t dispense them from fulfilling their Sunday obligation, and it’s always better to have the Sacraments 🙂

God bless 🙂
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It is this kind of mentality that I find so frustrating in many of these discussions.
Its not that they would like to worship themselves in this way but that they would try to force it on everyone.

I have spent most my life in vernacular Mass and yes I have noticed some Churches have lost many beautiful statues etc and some who have not. Recently I went to a cathedral to send some time doing the Stations of the Cross because I thought having the carvings of the scenes in front of me would help me meditate better. When I got there each station had been replaced by a small crucifix marker ( + ) . This actually forced me to meditate internally and really try to Imagine each scene for myself which I was able to do Quite easliy so the change did not affect my devotion at all . I understood why each marker was an ( + ) as Christ had not been Crucified at every station. Yes I do think it a pity that such beautifull carving were removed but the removal did not affect my devotions in the end and made me realise I could just as easily do them at home to so no excuse for not doing them more often. So a change yes but no diabolical consequences for me.

If what my mother tells me about some of the Latin Traditional masses in the past if mobile phone video recording were availabe in the 1930’s ; Men all crowded at the back door chatting rushing off as soon as they returned from Communion. Women in the pews mostly reciting rosaries through the majority of the mass instead of focusing on the Eucharist were the norm in the little parish church she attended. Hardly the iconised Ideal.

If the early Apostles took this one size fits all approach to Catholicism there would only have been 1 gospel but clearly they understood that they needed to explain the story of Christs life according to the audiences they were writing for hence 4 gospels. Are we now in our wisdom to decide which one we prefer and ditch the other 3 if we are to like this about how we worship at mass.

I love the Idea of having Latin Mass available for those who find it helps them; just like I loved hearing a mass lately in Irish at the same Cathedral above as the stations took longer than I thought and I inadvertantly found myself in a private mass,( and then thought it would be wrong to leave after the mass started) organised for the leaving year class in the local Irish Speaking school. I didn’t understand a word but I knew it was a proper Mass and I recognised Amazing Grace when they sang it still sounded beautiful.

Getting back to what I was talking about; but I hate the Idea that these lovers of Latin
would force it on everyone and deny others the privalege they would have for themselves of worshiping respectfully in the vernacular. Of course If you oppose any of these Traditionalist you are immediately confronted with the charge of being a Modernest by some and by so doing say by implication of the term that you are somehow a pro abortionist , Gay marriage promoting, heratic. The same charge if you see no reason that girls can’t serve at the alter or any other incidental to the faith issue they are promoting.

True Unity in the Church can’t be achieved with this type of love for your brothers and sisters and if the apostles had taken this approach we male first borns would still be circumcised, the bible would be still in Hebrew or Greek (forgive my lack of scholarship for not knowing which is original) and the Christian ceromony to commemorate the Eucharist would still be in Hebrew or Greek as spoken in the synagogues of ancient Israel.
ETC, ETC, ETC but to the horror of some at the time it moved forward with time. Let our
1st Pope speak…

1 Peter 4:8-11 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)

But before all things have a constant mutual charity among yourselves: for charity covereth a multitude of sins.Using hospitality one towards another, without murmuring,As every man hath received grace, ministering the same one to another: as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.If any man speak, let him speak, as the words of God. If any man minister, let him do it, as of the power, which God administereth: that in all things God may be honoured through Jesus Christ: to whom is glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen.

both those who opperate in the so called camps of Traditionalists and modernests should maybe ponder on Apostle John’s words about Diotrephes

3 John 1 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)
I had written perhaps to the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the pre-eminence among them, doth not receive us.For this cause, if I come, I will advertise his works which he doth, with malicious words prating against us. And as if these things were not enough for him, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and them that do receive them he forbiddeth, and casteth out of the church.

Paul speaks…

Colossians 3:11 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)
Where there is neither Gentile nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian nor Scythian, bond nor free. But Christ is all, and in all.

In these troubled times let us all strive within the boundaries of the Truths of Our faith to hold together in mutual love and respect for one another. Rather than a house divided on itself. For it is in this Unity of Spirit that through Christ we can repulse the real enemy that would speak with one forked tounge a message for each audience in order to sow division.

Enjoy your Latin Mass and let us also enjoy our vernacular Mass but let both our prayer go up as a beautiful rainbow of colour to our ONE LORD AND GOD. 👍
 
Monica,

I feel the same way. My time at the university I spent my entire time at an OF parish. It wasn’t until I learned of a Tridentine Mass or now an EF Mass that my curiosity got the best of me and I decided to make the 30 minute trip. I instantly felt the same way you do…I loved THIS Catholicism and this was where I felt home. You always heard of it and we had studied the Gregorian chant in music class but it was nowhere to be found, until I discovered its use in the EF Mass. I attended that Mass exclusively and made the trip until the priest was moved. 😦 The Mass ended but will be returning this Sunday on May 1! The only problem is I will be graduating this May and my time here will be short so I can only enjoy this Mass for a bit as there is no such Mass available in my home town.

Your post is genuine. People for whatever reason have the need to shoot down and rate post like these low out of whatever reasoning. There are others out there like yourself. Stay close to the Church no matter the Mass and if you can’t bring the Mass to your home town…move 🙂
 
Hi everyone,

well the time has come and I have moved back home, and can’t attend the FSSP parish anymore. Today I went to the Novus Ordo for Divine Mercy Sunday. I didn’t go to my home parish but another church, that was holding a Divine Mercy celebration. The church was beautiful, the Mass was good, so was everything about the Divine Mercy Sunday… however… I couldn’t get past some things… I realized I got so used to the Latin Mass that it was very difficult to concentrate… i almost knelt for the Sanctus and other parts, kept on messing up the order of things, etc, - I was really distracted by the fact that a lady read the first 2 Scripture passages… I know that might sound critical but the thing is - I’m so used to the priest doing everything in the Latin Mass. It was a huge distraction for me. I kept on getting tempted to uncharitable thoughts and that distracted me from the Divine Mercy message and Communion, - I’m even afraid I received unworthily or at least without proper recollection 😦 my last Communion at the Latin Mass church was so beautiful. In addition, I felt really uncomfortable without my veil, but when I put it on, I felt like everyone was staring at me and that i was a distraction for people, so I took it off…

I’m really disappointed, because I love Divine Mercy, it’s one of my favourite devotions, I was really looking forward to this Feast Day, and the church was beautiful… I just can’t get used to Novus Ordo 😦 I’m having a lot of difficulty with it. I can’t wait to be able to go to Latin Mass again. 😦
 
Monica4316 said:
Hi everyone,

i almost knelt for the Sanctus
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That threw me in for a loop too. They kneel after the Sanctus.
I’m having a lot of difficulty with it. I can’t wait to be able to go to Latin Mass again. 😦
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You’ll get used to it Monica. In the meanwhile stay focused on Christ during the mass. You said yourself the mass was beautiful.

If it is his will, God will open up a door for you.
 
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