Being asked to make "collection calls" for Mass request stipends?

[Anesis]

I work in a large, wealthy parish. I’m a new employee at this parish, but not new working for the Church. I am also a convert of 4 years, so maybe I’m a little more touchy about these things.

However, it was my understanding that when someone requests a Mass for a deceased loved (or special intention in honor of a living person) that the stipend was actually an offering. I know that in some countries, this is the only income for those parish priests, so this offering is very important to them. However, that is not true of most American parishes since they do receive a regular salary.

At my previous parish, I would schedule the Mass, then the person almost always asked if there was an offering or if they could donate anything in appreciation & I would accept the $10. If they didn’t, I didn’t say anything either. We also would only accept requests for the rolling year (never more than 12 months out from the date because that’s Canon law). I had the benefit of working with a deacon who is a well respected Canon lawyer and the judicial advocate for the tribunal, so I actually earned a lot about Canon law.

However at this parish, they let people schedule 2 years in advance, which is not only against the Canon, but it also upsets people who make a request in January only to find the whole yr is already booked. I’ve tried to speak to the business mgr about it, but she won’t budge because “it’s the way it’s always been”. But it seems to me, people don’t like it and I’m the one to whom they complain.

What really bothers me is that she wants me to track down people who requested Masses but didn’t “pay” and remind them to “pay” for the Mass. This really makes me feel uncomfortable. I know the financial offering is also meant to be a sacrifice on their part, but I don’t want to be put in a position where someone can’t afford it and is embarrassed if I call them up to remind them or worse, they don’t even ask at all, thinking it’s only for the wealthy. And I certainly don’t want it to appear that we’re “selling” Masses (a lot of people come in and say they want to “buy” a Mass and it makes me cringe inside).

It’s not the pastor asking me to do this, it’s the bus mgr and she is very set in her ways. The pastor depends on her & trusts her 100% but she’s actually put me in awkward situations before by asking me to do things that I know aren’t Canonically sound & then the pastor asks me why I did those things. It really puts me on the spot when I have to tell him the she told me to do it. I feel it makes me look like I have poor judgment. Maybe I should stand my ground, but like I said, I’m new and I don’t want to start off on the wrong foot & she reacts poorly.

Any thoughts on the “collection calls” she’s asking me to make? I don’t know the people, so I have no idea of their financial status, it just seems wrong to call someone to tell them to pay for a prayer they requested for their loved one.

 

[TheLittleLady]

never more than 12 months out from the date because that’s Canon law

Canon citation? This will help enforcing the policy where I work!

Any thoughts on the “collection calls” she’s asking me to make?

Wow! In my years working for parishes, this is a new one.

I understand that some parishes are struggling financially more than usual right now. Maybe advise making an easy “donate now” button on your website and social media.

I would send an email, citing the Canon and the Catechism on Simony. “I do not feel comfortable violating the law of the Church by treating Mass as ‘accounts receivable’.”

Escalate to the Pastor if you need to. You are protecting the parish by standing up for what is right. Financial improprieties are nothing to ignore!!

Honestly, this is so off-putting that I would contact the Diocese if both Manager and Pastor still insist.

I once had to notify the Diocese of a fundraiser that was violating State Law, I cited the law so they could research. They thanked me and sent out a correction to every parish in the Diocese.

 

[puer.dei]

You’re going to have to talk to the pastor about this. It sounds like he’s already aware that she’s asked you to do some dodgy things in the past.
You could frame it as wanting to be sure he’s OK with it, because this could make not just the parish look bad, but him as the pastor, since he’s in charge.

And really, if he goes along with this, I’d be looking for another job. You shouldn’t have to take the flak for this women’s bad decisions.

 

[1ke]

You need to tell the pastor about both of these things. Ultimately the mass offerings are his responsibility, and he needs to be following canon law. You are absolutely correct on both counts and cannot make ‘collections’ calls on mass intentions nor take offerings that go beyond what can be said 12 months.

I would guess the pastor is not aware that this has been happening. If he’s actually condoning it, then that’s a horse of a different color. You would then need to talk to the dean of the deanery or the curia office.

 

[TheLittleLady]

“I need to buy a Mass”

Our response “you cannot buy a mass. You may request a Mass and make a donation. The usual donation is $10.”

 

[Anesis]

Canon citation? This will help enforcing the policy where I work!

Sure! It’s Canon 953 - “No one is permitted to accept more offerings for Masses to be applied by himself than he can satisfy within a year.”

To everyone else who responded - thank you! I really appreciate your responses and thoughts on this. I try to stay balanced when dealing with things like this, realizing that a lot of cradle Catholics (like my manager) are not familiar with the WHY behind a lot of the traditions of the Church. I don’t want to come across as a know-it-all, or like I’m being “legalistic” but on the other hand, I feel like I am trying to preserve the sanctity of the faith by protecting the sacraments.

I can handle the people telling me that I’m stopping them from getting their child baptized because I tell them that they have to have at least one active, practicing godparent who has received all of their sacraments, are in good standing and if married, in a valid marriage recognized by the Church, they insist that “they’ve had a Jewish godfather before” or “do they really have to be Christian - Muslims believe in Allah and that’s the same, right?”

But when it comes to things like this, where someone is ordering me to do things that I know are wrong - I just can’t. I don’t feel comfortable “collecting” for “unpaid Masses”. The Mass Intention account is supposed to be kept separate from all other church accounts, balanced out at the end of each calendar year with any extra funds sent to the Bishop to distribute to poor parishes around the world (or another worthy cause). It’s not “income”. Mass Intentions are not supposed to be a quid pro quo transaction but people definitely are seeing them as such, which is why they declare they want to “buy” a Mass. From my point of view, they feel they’ve purchased the graces offered by the Eucharist they believe they can’t access themselves & using the priest as the purveyor & presume that the Mass is offered by the priest for the exclusive benefit of the donor. Like they own the Mass & we’re all guests. This desire for exclusivity is directly opposite to the inclusive sense of Christian life & I don’t think it will lead to anything good. There is a lot of magical thinking around Mass Intentions. But I’m just a lowly admin working in a parish that isn’t one I attend or have any connection to, so my thoughts are “suspect”.

I’ll just tell her no with a short explanation, then share with him my true feelings, and see what happens. There is a lot of inappropriate “catering to the parishioner” behavior happening there & he’s a triple-duty priest holding 3 very significant positions within the diocese, so I am certain he is unaware. I believe him to be a good priest who would not want this to be happening. I hope I’m not wrong. I will continue to pray about this but sadly, sometimes the silly politics and people’s egos overrule good sense and law so it’s possible she’ll make it very uncomfortable for me to work there.

Tldr: Thank you all for your suggestions and thoughts, I very much appreciate them!

 

[TheLittleLady]

I tell them that they have to have at least one active, practicing godparent who has received all of their sacraments, are in good standing and if married, in a valid marriage recognized by the Church, t

We literally hand out a sheet with the Canon law printed on it re baptismal/confirmation sponsors.

 

[1ke]

I can handle the people telling me that I’m stopping them from getting their child baptized because I tell them that they have to have at least one active, practicing godparent who has received all of their sacraments, are in good standing and if married, in a valid marriage recognized by the Church,

Well, you can also refer them to the priest because canon 872 says “insofar as possible” a person is to have a sponsor. So their lack of a suitable sponsor shouldn’t prevent the baptism from moving ahead.

The priest could assign a sponsor or allow the baptism to move forward without.

The family can refer to whomever they want as a “godparent” informally.

 

[InThePew]

Any thoughts on the “collection calls” she’s asking me to make? I don’t know the people, so I have no idea of their financial status, it just seems wrong to call someone to tell them to pay for a prayer they requested for their loved one.

There are a lot of rules around mass stipends and for good reason. While the business manager may not realise that stipends aren’t treated like ordinary income in the sense of a commercial transaction, I would be very surprised (and concerned) if the priest wasn’t aware. This is really a conversation you need to be having with him in a way that’s respectful towards the business manager but which highlights these concerns.

 

[tweedlealice]

There goes that typo problem, that happens. Phooey. I’ll try & fix it.
Fixing it required to cut & paste & trash my first attempt. Strange

 

[tweedlealice]

I had to call a list & ask for donations. I felt ill, by the time, I was done. I cried w some parishioners, who couldn’t donate, w their reason of insufficient funds. I promised myself NEVER to do that again.
A gentle reminder in the bulletin is a thought. As someone suggested, a donate button on your church site page. On that page, maybe they should put down the expenses of the parish. The collections received, etc. Never list the donations from each family. Though offering Gold memberships, or Silver memberships might be an idea. I’ve seen different TV Christian stations do something like that.,?? IDK
THANK YOU,FOR ANSWERING GODS CALL, TO WORK FOR HIM, IN THE CHURCH.
P.S. I think a talk w the Pastor, is important. Bring the Bus. Mgr. in as a meeting, after your first meeting, w the Pastor. “IF YOU HAVE OUGHT W YOUR SISTER, etc.”
Blessings
Dear God, let this post work

 

[1ke]

I had to call a list & ask for donations. I felt ill, by the time, I was done. I cried w some parishioners, who couldn’t donate, w their reason of insufficient funds. I promised myself NEVER to do that again.
A gentle reminder in the bulletin is a thought. As someone suggested, a donate button on your church site page. On that page, maybe they should put down the expenses of the parish. The collections received, etc

There is nothing wrong with stewardship efforts.

That isn’t what the OP is taking about at all, though. Mass offerings are entirely different.

 

[Annie]

What I would do is to write down everything questionable she has asked you to do and the results, with dates as much as possible.

So: Ms X asked me to do such-and-such. Pastor asked me why I did that, etc.

Then make an appointment with the pastor and explain what is happening now, as well as reminding him that similar things have happened in the past, offering him your list.

You can’t keep going through this each time the FM asks you to do something questionable.

 

[Shasta-Rose]

I don’t know if this is true in most churches, but in our church the donations for Masses go to the priest for what politicians would call WAM (walking around money). He can use it buy buy a hoagie if he’s on the road, or he can give it away, or whatever. Just a little discretionary income in addition to his regular income.

 

[Phemie]

I don’t know if this is true in most churches, but in our church the donations for Masses go to the priest for what politicians would call WAM (walking around money). He can use it buy buy a hoagie if he’s on the road, or he can give it away, or whatever. Just a little discretionary income in addition to his regular income.

They go to the priest in our parish too, but they are first deposited in a bank account that’s just for Mass stipends and are paid out to the priest once per month. Our present pastor doesn’t take those stipends, he just turns them over to the Parish’s general account. He belongs to a missionary order, not sure if thatks the reason or not.

 

[InThePew]

Same for us, although they’re supposed to be recorded to ensure that any outstanding obligations have been fulfilled and a second stipend for the day has to go to the seminary. Religious order priests however have to hand them over to their community bursar.

 

[poche]

If he is a professed religious then the money belongs to the community and its use is determined by the superior.

 

[InThePew]

If he is a professed religious then the money belongs to the community and its use is determined by the superior.

One of the advantages to diocesan priesthood! It’s often said that religious priests take the vow of poverty; diocesan priest live it - this though is a notable exception! All of you stipends are belong to us!

 

[OraLabora]

He belongs to a missionary order, not sure if thatks the reason or not.

Most likely. Most regular members of orders either directly or indirectly take a vow of poverty. For for Benedictines and Trappists it’s indirect based on the vow of Obedience, with the Rule stipulating that monks and nuns may not possess anything of their own. All income for regular members of orders is thus turned over to the order or community. This would not apply to Third Order members nor to secular or regular Benedictine oblates

 

[Phemie]

If he is a professed religious then the money belongs to the community and its use is determined by the superior.

I’m familiar with that but, OTOH, I’ve known religious who were allowed to keep up to $5K. In their case it was specific to their province, other provinces in their congregation did remit everything to their community and were given a stipend. It may have been set up this way before the internet and because of their location in isolated communities.