(Being Catholic ⇒ "Being Fully Human") = Modernism?

[Joan_of_Ark]

Words are an inexact way of conveying knowledge. Timewasters, lawyers and the wicked can twist them to suit their goals.

… will do you much more good than fretting over the meaning of words in Church documents.

Forgot to say, …

What about YOUR words, Layman? …your words are “time wasters” too, yet you post your words here practically every day for people to consider.

Also I am not “fretting” over meanings of the words in Church documents … , I was just showing how an early Church Father thought that when we are in a state of sin, we are “not being human…’ to make a point to consider. That to use these words, does not mean one is a twisted and wicked “modernist”…in fact it may be just the opposite. You 'Traditionalists”. Are way way too worried about all the wicked enemies out there, to the point of creating more disunity than you THINK you are slaying.

 

[Layman]

My remarks, while they were in reply to your question, weren’t directed at you. Perhaps I should have used ‘one’, instead of ‘you’ e.g. " … will do one much more good than fretting over the meaning of words in Church documents. "

Here’s what I’m getting at.

There’s a certain kind of stilted language used in academia that looks to me more like it’s trying to hide meaning than reveal it. Or just to show how educated the author is.

e.g. “The faith community gathered in the worship space to celebrate the Liturgy of the Eucharist”

Translation: “We went to Mass”.

 

[Geremia]

I think its safe to say that when you hear someone harping on about becoming “more fully human” they are a modernist for sure, or al least their theology is tainted with modernism. Anyone who reads Pope John Paul II’s Books or speeches will recognise the repetitive use of this phrase and others such as rights of man, the dignity of man etc etc. There is nothing wrong with the latter statements in and of themselves, however when these phrases are used repeditively you can tell what sort of theology the person who is using them is promoting, and what sort of theological conclusions they come to.

Yes, e.g., Pope Leo XIII “balanced it out” when he said: “The world has heard enough of the so-called ‘rights of man.’ Let it hear something of the rights of God.” —Tametsi Futura Prospicientibus

I don’t know where John Paul II picked up this phrase “more fully human” - probably Jacques Maritain or someone like that. I don’t know any person that could be considered “not fully human”. A human is a human - period. If anyone who disagrees could provide an example of someone who is “not fully human” I would appreciate it, as I cannot undertand the logic behing this sort of humanist “theology”, if it could be called that.

Pope John Paul II is well-known for his personalism/phenomenological philosophy. Maybe that is what you are thinking.

As a side note I seem to remember Pope John Paul saying that “working” makes one “more fully human” - I would have to look up a reference though.

Probably Laborem Exercitens, but I don’t see anything like that there.

 

[Iotaunum]

…Iotaunum…I did mention JPII’s Theology of the Body. I guess I’m a “modernist” after all! Like JPII! I never though of him as a modernist either…o wait a minute… You must be a “Traditionalist” ! Now I get it!
Factions!! More disunity! we just love arguing with each other about who is right and wrong and good Catholics and bad Catholics…labeling each other, assuming the worse in each other! Assuming the worse in our own Shepherd, who the Holy Spirit gave to His Church to help in guiding us into fullness in Christ!

I don’t think that is being what God has made us to be! this is certianly not being the human beings God made us to be it’s like spitting in His face all over again. Hypocrites! We all better go to confession…get rid of those animalistic tendencies…get more human again.

Love,
J

I really didn’t want to reply to this comment and cause friction or whatever but I have a bad habit of not being able to keep silent when someone has posed a question or made a comment to me. I will not even get into Pope John Paul’s “Theology of the Body” here. You being a modernist I don’t know how you interpret “tradtionalist” - but if by that you mean that I hold Catholic theology and doctrine in the same sense as it was always understood, then I am a traditionalist (small t) but if you mean it in any other sense then I am not. I have no qualms at all in stating what I percieve to be facts and providing Church teachings which back them up. I understand that some (a lot nowadays) will disagree, but there is nothing to be gained by engaging in the intellectual dishonesty that “it doesn’t matter” or that I should refrain from doing so due to contrary opinion, however prevelant it is. Whatsmore I do not think that this is the cause of “More disunity”, nor am I “spitting in His (God’s) face all over again” by doing to. You are free of course to express your views to the contrary.

 

[Iotaunum]

Yes, e.g., Pope Leo XIII “balanced it out” when he said: “The world has heard enough of the so-called ‘rights of man.’ Let it hear something of the rights of God.”

Exactly - I will have to remember that quote. If only the Pope today were strong enough to make clear statements like Pope Leo, and not fear what “man” may think. That statement applies today more than ever, what with all the so-called “rights” humanity has now aquired.

 

[Joan_of_Ark]

one of my favorite bloggers , Scott P. Reichert wrote this today about Saints on his blog about the movie “There be Dragons” …and it made me think of this thread! I had to add it here as it relates so well to how I think on the issue of being “Fully Human”

Here are the words of Scott P Reichert:

The lesson of Josemaría Escrivá’s life is that we are all called to sanctity, and we can and should and must achieve it within the confines of our everyday life. The saints are not superhuman; rather, they are those who, by conforming their lives to Christ, have become human in the way God intended all of us to be.

 

[Geremia]

Here are the words of Scott P Reichert:

The lesson of Josemaría Escrivá’s life is that we are all called to sanctity, and we can and should and must achieve it within the confines of our everyday life. The saints are not superhuman; rather, they are those who, by conforming their lives to Christ, have become human in the way God intended all of us to be.

Grace builds on nature!

 

[Joan_of_Ark]

Grace builds on nature!

…to create the human in his fullness…the way God intended us to be…FULLY HUMAN
and this is not a modern concept it is as ancient as the Birth Death and Resurection of Christ, the first fruits.

Amen.