Being critical of others

[kalt]

In another thread, someone was criticized for fighting in a war.

Are you critical of others’ behavior in bad times?

Do you find yourself being critical of the average German’s behavior during WWII?

Do you think that the Muslims living under the Taliban should do more to save those who are murdered unjustly, because of the Taliban’s wacky laws?

Should the Iraqis have stepped in when Hussein was killing their neighbors?

Should more Hutus have helped their Tutsi neighbors?

Well, what about you?

What have you done to help your own neighbors? What have you done to help starving people around the world.

Are you sipping coffee while reading this? Have you had too much food today? (If you’re an American adult, chances are that you are overweight.) Do you have a widescreen TV? Cable TV? HDTV? How many TVs? How many phones?

Your lives aren’t on the line and you so so little. Do you think it’s fair to be critical of others, whose lives are/were on the line, of doing too little?

You do so little. What are the chances that you would make a huge sacrifice in a life/death situation. If, in a safe time and place, you can’t give up the extras to save your neighbor, what are the chances you would put your life on the line to save him?
What, do you think, would bring about that 180?

If you are you a Xian, do you believe that having multiple TVs, several phones, too much food (so much that heart disease in this country is an epidemic) and other such over-consumption is in line with your religion?

Does having all of this while others starve bother you?

What do you owe your neighbor? What are you morally allowed to keep for yourself?

Where do you draw the line?

Americans give a lot, but we have a lot. Do we really give as much as we should?

BTW, I was saying “you”, but I include myself in that universal you.

 

[b_justb]

Those called to live in extreme poverty should do as they are called to do.

In the USA there is not a zero sum balance. Person X’s prosperity does not require Person Y’s poverty. Person X and Person Y can both be prosperous at the same time. In fact the more prosperity more persons have the less poverty there is and the more chances of charity being lived out.

Charity should not be measure in how much welfare we give, but rather on how many people don’t require it.

St. Paul’s Epistle to the Christians in Philippi 4:11-13 Not that I complain of want; for I have learned, in whatever state I am, to be content. I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound; in any and all circumstances I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and want. I can do all things in him who strengthens me.

You can own a million things and not be owned by any of them, and you can be poorer than poor and be the most greedy person on the planet. It’s not about what you own or don’t own.

Examination of the conscience is always good.

 

[Verisimilitude]

In another thread, someone was criticized for fighting in a war.

Are you critical of others’ behavior in bad times?

I am critical of myslef in both good and bad times, so yes to a degree I am of others as well.

Do you find yourself being critical of the average German’s behavior during WWII?

Governments do things in the name of the people often without the peoples consent. The average Germans in 1933 bears some responsibility for the results in 1945, yes.

Do you think that the Muslims living under the Taliban should do more to save those who are murdered unjustly, because of the Taliban’s wacky laws?

Yes, but it would be difficult because both use the same book and 1400 years of Islamic history to carry out the wacky laws. I am begining to believe many Muslims accept such government because they think it authored by God.

Should the Iraqis have stepped in when Hussein was killing their neighbors?

Yes.

Should more Hutus have helped their Tutsi neighbors?

Yes.

Well, what about you?

I have my own problems.

What have you done to help your own neighbors? What have you done to help starving people around the world.

I do not molest or wrong them personally. The forced taxation of Americans to give aid to others is a crime upon Americans.

Are you sipping coffee while reading this?

No, I do not drink coffee. I prefer water.

Have you had too much food today? (If you’re an American adult, chances are that you are overweight.)

I have the opportunity to have too much. I lost 30 lbs about 4 yrs ago and so far have kept almost all of it off since.

Do you have a widescreen TV? Cable TV? HDTV?

Yes.

How many TVs? How many phones?

Two each.

Your lives aren’t on the line and you so so little. Do you think it’s fair to be critical of others, whose lives are/were on the line, of doing too little?

I lose my job at the end of the month and need to find another, but if it made me go hungry it still would not be reason to steal. I have two nephews in the two wars now so in some ways my own is on the line. Regardless of the circumstance we are in (good or bad) we still have a responsibility to love neighbor as self.

You do so little. What are the chances that you would make a huge sacrifice in a life/death situation. If, in a safe time and place, you can’t give up the extras to save your neighbor, what are the chances you would put your life on the line to save him?
What, do you think, would bring about that 180?

I like to think there is a fair chance I would personally. I can do nothing about the rape of a woman, unknown and 100 miles away from me but if walking past the alley I saw it of course I would intervene despite any personal risk.

If you are you a Xian, do you believe that having multiple TVs, several phones, too much food (so much that heart disease in this country is an epidemic) and other such over-consumption is in line with your religion?

No, not neccessarily.

Does having all of this while others starve bother you?

My starving with them would not make me feel better though they say misery loves company.

What do you owe your neighbor? What are you morally allowed to keep for yourself?

First I owe him his own freedom to make his own choices as I demand them for myself. I can morally keep what is rightfully mine.

Where do you draw the line?

When the ‘good’ I want to do is surpassed by the bad unintended consequences of my intention.

Americans give a lot, but we have a lot. Do we really give as much as we should?

If left up to the individual rather than government mandated I think more ‘good’ would make it to those in need.

BTW, I was saying “you”, but I include myself in that universal you.

Understood. Individual liberty and individual responsibility are sometimes thwarted by the collective nature of secular government. Judas complained about the oil used on Jesus rather than sold to help the poor, and He said the poor will be with us always.

It is like when on an airplane and they tell you in case of an emergency to put on your own oxygen mask first before helping others- even children. Why? Because if you who is most capable to take care of yourself don’t, you will have no opportunity to help others.

 

[Sham7]

I sincerely disagree with the view that having alot of things(thus justifying having alot of things) somehow is ok as long as the possessor does not let them be its Lord. I agree in priniciple, but in reality it does not work. The more things contributes to more distractions from Our Lord and His way.

I do believe there may be exceptions to the rule, but I think that Jesus has given us an example to have very little and stay focused on our heavenly Father. Let’s face it, alot of the materials stuff occupies our time and thus takes us away from Our Lord and his way. You can argue this until the cows go home, but it is common sense, so end of argument for me.

Jesus loves us all both rich and poor, but He has a special place for the poor. “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they shall inherit the earth”. Very few truly poor people are hard hearted and selfish when you compare that with the rich.

I feel that those who possess alot and even what they consider alot(more so Republicans in my experience) are
always looking for ways to justify their choice to possess things. One of the contributors to this blog motivated me to share my view. I urge the justifiers to strive to be real.

It saddens me how brainwashed we are by our media with regard to things. Jesus was no materialist in the sense of abusing the ownership of things.

I too pray for myself and others with regard to the degree that things control and possess us!

Amen,
sham7

PS Maybe time to get rid of some stuff and help Catholic charities to redistribute some of our bounty? Hope so
Cathoic relief services probably really needs our help at this time with the Mynamar disaster, so, let’s just do it, ok? tks

 

[Rocky]

I think that Sham is right in that having a lot of things can take us away from spending time rightly–especially with the Lord. I spend way too much time just reading this forum! But not having enough can also put just as many obstacles in the way of spending time with the Lord. Everyone is challenged.

I do not agree with Sham that one political party over another is more concerned with the poor. Political parties are made up of people, and there are good people in all political parties who want to help the poor. We can debate all day the best way to do this. But I think debating it on a religious forum is not proper.

 

[b_justb]

If being in poverty is such a great way to be closer to God, why are we constantly helping them to not be poor? Isn’t that spiritually counter productive?

Being extremely poor moves your focus away from matters spiritual because you are worried about how to feed your family.

I agree Jesus was no materialist and we all recall how he told the rich guy to go sell all he had and give it to the poor.

We also know how Jesus chided his followers that tried to say the woman that anointed Him with expensive oils was being fiscally irresponsible.

So there is a balance taught in the whole of Scripture about this, yes? I think we can all agree to that, yes?

My first response to this thread was rather measured, because I think it’s beyond ludicrous to point the accusatory critical finger at any one other than ourselves. And I don’t think anyone should be put on the spot to explain if they have served their fellow man by military service, public service, and the like, or how many TV’s they have.

I have found in my personal experience that those that seek to force people into wealth redistribution either by guilt, or federal mandate, will draw the line just above where they are. If they own 2 TV’s then 2 TV’s should be the maximum anyone should own. You wont hear about a guy that owns 3 TV’s coming up with a wealth redistribution plan that says we are only allowed 1 TV, so he’s the first in line to give 2 of his to people that have none.

I’ve been poor. My parents spent about 3 years in a chicken coop with my brother and I when we were kids. Did that draw us closer to God? No. Did it make us want and desire material things instead? Yes. Rather the opposite in reality than what is loftily expressed philosophically, in my personal experience.

I knew this guy that was single dad in the US Army. The children’s mother abounded her 2 kids with him and took off to be a drunken floozy. He could not get WIC because he was a man. He made about $60 more than the maximum allowable to get food stamps. He didn’t have a car and rode a bike everywhere. He was a pretty poor guy who never complained about his financial status or the burden of raising 2 kids that weren’t even his (he was a Republican by the way ). He never took a hand out because he believed, as a Republican he wasn’t a Christian, in personal responsibility. The guy had all sorts of problems, but he endured with pretty much a smile on his face. Personal choice and personal responsibly are two strong planks in the Conservative movement, of which he was and still is staunchly ensconced. Not everyone is poor by choice, but many are poor by their own design. The repercussions of the choices they have made in their life.

Help the poor? You bet. Let’s help them not be poor. Let’s not help them remain poor by being enslaved to subsistence living by giving them welfare. Education, I think, is the biggest and best way to do that. Not by giving people TV’s or cell phones.

 

[Sham7]

Helping the poor comes in alot of different ways. Teaching one to improve their lot may be the best assuming that one can execute the way. For those who cannot they need to be fed, bathed, counseled, hopitalized, transported, prayed for, and much much more. I would mention that this includes the mentally ill, the disabled, the dislocated(Katrina, tsunamis, etc), and others who have been downtrodden by no fault of their own and in some cases even some who have been selfish and created their station on this earth. We definetly are not responsible for them, but we have a moral imperative by Jesus to care for them and help them out of love. Helping them by teaching them to improve their lot is not the only way although at some point I agree it is the best when that poor person is able to execute that way.

Amen,
sham7

 

[ralphinal]

In another thread, someone was criticized for fighting in a war.

Are you critical of others’ behavior in bad times?

It depends

Do you find yourself being critical of the average German’s behavior during WWII?

The ones who went along happily, yes. The ones who went along to save themselves or their families, there but for the Grace of God go I. Those who said nothing, yes and no.

Do you think that the Muslims living under the Taliban should do more to save those who are murdered unjustly, because of the Taliban’s wacky laws?

Yes, because they are selling us a line that that whole thing was forbidden in Islam. Why did they not riot like they would if a woman was in a swimsuit?

Should the Iraqis have stepped in when Hussein was killing their neighbors?

See the German statement

Should more Hutus have helped their Tutsi neighbors?

NOt sure about how to answer this. Let’s start by not killing each other and go from there.

Well, what about you?

What have you done to help your own neighbors? What have you done to help starving people around the world.

Alot and not enough. The poor will always be with us.

Are you sipping coffee while reading this? Have you had too much food today? (If you’re an American adult, chances are that you are overweight.) Do you have a widescreen TV? Cable TV? HDTV? How many TVs? How many phones?

Your lives aren’t on the line and you so so little. Do you think it’s fair to be critical of others, whose lives are/were on the line, of doing too little?

You do so little. What are the chances that you would make a huge sacrifice in a life/death situation. If, in a safe time and place, you can’t give up the extras to save your neighbor, what are the chances you would put your life on the line to save him?
What, do you think, would bring about that 180?

If you are you a Xian, do you believe that having multiple TVs, several phones, too much food (so much that heart disease in this country is an epidemic) and other such over-consumption is in line with your religion?

Does having all of this while others starve bother you?

What do you owe your neighbor? What are you morally allowed to keep for yourself?

Where do you draw the line?

Americans give a lot, but we have a lot. Do we really give as much as we should?

BTW, I was saying “you”, but I include myself in that universal you.

We can all do more, but even if we all sold what we had and gave it to the poor, they would be poor again. We need to do more to help others make a life for themselves

 

[Sham7]

We are lead by Jesus to give to the poor in all different creative ways we can come up with as that is what giving in love will create. Jesus never qualified his directive for us except that we have a heart of love in all things with regard to loving Him, ourselves, and others(especially the poor).
He did not say that just because we gave everything and there still would be poverty that we should not give or limit our giving. Yes, we should all do more and more and more and at some point we will all be poor or all be very rich . You get it?
Well, it is worth getting!

Luv ya all,
sham7

 

[kalt]

I just want to be clear, since some have taken this to the extreme.

When I was talking about helping starving people, I was talking about giving what is extra.

Americans are fat. So many of us have multiple everything–TVs, computers, phones, even cars!

These are things that don’t contribute to the individual’s wealth. They are expenses, not investments.

How much do we really need? And would not buying this extra stuff really make us poor?

Would giving the money you would spend on yet another computer make you any poorer than you would be if you bought computer? In mere months the thing is just about worhtless.

You eat too much food, and you hurt yourself. Would it make you poorer to feed someone else instead?

I agree with those who said that simply giving things to poor people doesn’t make them rich. But wouldn’t education help?

But thinking more about what Americans have, I think we’re also a nation of people in debt. People have these things, but they haven’t yet paid for them.

If you’re going to take on debt for some thing, wouldn’t it feel better to have done something good?

I have one computer, one phone at home, one cell phone that my spouse and I share. We have one TV.

We’re not an electronic family, BUT I spend money on things that I don’t really need. I like these things, and I would have a terrible time giving them up.

Anyway, that’s what I’m talking about. Giving up the extra things to help other people. Our lives aren’t on the line, and still we don’t help. We won’t give up our extras, even when we know people are starving.

What’s wrong with us?!!!