Being female

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As a female myself, I often wonder where to look to see what God wants me to do. Since original sin, men and women have been divided. God created us equal, however sin divided us as it divides everyone. Now we cannot understand each other.

Throughout history we have been fighting for equality. Today, I find that we still don’t have equality. Yes, legally we do, however culturally we don’t. We still have double standard for women, but we also have double standards for men. We say boys can’t cry, men must be physically strong, etc. In a way, we are weakening BOTH genders.

Then we have “girl power.” In TV shows, when the strength of a female is questioned, she will say,“Hey, I’m as tough as you are” and then that topic would be abandoned.
I write and I find it difficult to create female characters even though I am one! I find that the only image I can bring up of a woman is one who is weak and needs rescuing or one who is “manly” and tough but mean; just a man in a woman’s body. I find none of these acurate.
But it also leads me to wonder about real females. We don’t or we shouldn’t fall into one of these catagories. There is something more, something in between these two stereotypes.

Now often I hear people say that the ideal picture of a man is Christ, Christ on the cross. That is, a man who has sacrificial love. I agree, but then I wonder: How about women? Now the obvious person to look to is Mary! And yet, the more I look at Mary, the more I see of Christ himself. I see sacrifical love. A mother who suffered with her son, let her son do what he needed to b/c it was right, but loved him with all her heart to the end. I see sacrifical love again.

So my basic point is, not only should men look to Christ on the cross as an example of perfection, but women should too. I know men are called to love women as Christ loved the Church, but I also think women should too. I also think it should not only be love through sexuality, but love for all people. In general, I think being female is imitating Christ.

Any comments/ideas?

God Bless
 
I might not be a good person to speak to, since I’m a guy, but besides the Virgin Mary, my view of the ideal women is St. Monica.

Sure, she is a traditional woman, submissive to her husband and a super-loving mother, but she’s been a big influence on my life. I guess what I’m saying is, I don’t think your ideal woman should be based on whether or not she’s a girly housewife or really manly, but on how she changes the lives of others. The woman who is best at changing people for the better, should be your ideal woman, in my opinion.
 
I think part of the reason some of these double standards arose is because they are the direction that we naturally lean towards. For example, men are supposed to be physically stronger, but there’s nothing wrong with that double standard because men ARE physically stronger. Likewise, it’s OK for women to cry because they are the natural nurturers anyway.

What I’m trying to say is that there’s nothing wrong with these double standards because it’s the way God made us. It’s good that were not the same. We’re complementary. We are equal, but we are not the same. A nickel and five pennies are equal, but a nickel and a nickel are the same.

I know this isn’t the response you were looking for, but I felt the urge to say this.
 
I’m very interested in this topic. Perhaps the Early Church Fathers had something to say about women that will help us sift the wheat from the chaff?
 
I’m very confused about Corinthians.

Especially:

1 Cor. 7 “A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.”

Huh?? I believe, of course, that the Bible is 100% true, but I am just very confused.
 
Serafina17 said:
I’m very confused about Corinthians.

Especially:

1 Cor. 7 “A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.”

Huh?? I believe, of course, that the Bible is 100% true, but I am just very confused.
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You believe the Bible is 100% true. Yet, you are confused.

It is a good thing you are only worried about the book of Corinthians. Keep reading. You may have more areas that will lead to something.
 
Here are some quotes from St. Teresa of Avila that seem relevant to the discussion:

“We know only that we are living in these bodies and have a vague idea, because we have heard it, and because our faith tells us so, that we possess souls. As to what good qualities there may be in our souls, or who dwells within them, or how precious they are, those are things which we seldom consider and so we trouble little about carefully preserving the soul’s beauty.”

and get a load of this …

“About the injunction of the Apostle Paul that women should keep silent in church?
Don’t go by one text only.” 😉
 
Flame4 said:
As a female myself, I often wonder where to look to see what God wants me to do. Since original sin, men and women have been divided. God created us equal, however sin divided us as it divides everyone. Now we cannot understand each other.

Throughout history we have been fighting for equality. Today, I find that we still don’t have equality. Yes, legally we do, however culturally we don’t. We still have double standard for women, but we also have double standards for men. We say boys can’t cry, men must be physically strong, etc. In a way, we are weakening BOTH genders.

Then we have “girl power.” In TV shows, when the strength of a female is questioned, she will say,“Hey, I’m as tough as you are” and then that topic would be abandoned.
I write and I find it difficult to create female characters even though I am one! I find that the only image I can bring up of a woman is one who is weak and needs rescuing or one who is “manly” and tough but mean; just a man in a woman’s body. I find none of these acurate.
But it also leads me to wonder about real females. We don’t or we shouldn’t fall into one of these catagories. There is something more, something in between these two stereotypes.

Now often I hear people say that the ideal picture of a man is Christ, Christ on the cross. That is, a man who has sacrificial love. I agree, but then I wonder: How about women? Now the obvious person to look to is Mary! And yet, the more I look at Mary, the more I see of Christ himself. I see sacrifical love. A mother who suffered with her son, let her son do what he needed to b/c it was right, but loved him with all her heart to the end. I see sacrifical love again.

So my basic point is, not only should men look to Christ on the cross as an example of perfection, but women should too. I know men are called to love women as Christ loved the Church, but I also think women should too. I also think it should not only be love through sexuality, but love for all people. In general, I think being female is imitating Christ.

Any comments/ideas?

God Bless
Click to expand...
Exactly. Both men and women should look to Christ. Both men and women can share the same devotion to Mary.
 
Flame4 said:
As a female myself, I often wonder where to look to see what God wants me to do. Since original sin, men and women have been divided. God created us equal, however sin divided us as it divides everyone. Now we cannot understand each other.

Throughout history we have been fighting for equality. Today, I find that we still don’t have equality. Yes, legally we do, however culturally we don’t. We still have double standard for women, but we also have double standards for men. We say boys can’t cry, men must be physically strong, etc. In a way, we are weakening BOTH genders.

Then we have “girl power.” In TV shows, when the strength of a female is questioned, she will say,“Hey, I’m as tough as you are” and then that topic would be abandoned.
I write and I find it difficult to create female characters even though I am one! I find that the only image I can bring up of a woman is one who is weak and needs rescuing or one who is “manly” and tough but mean; just a man in a woman’s body. I find none of these acurate.
But it also leads me to wonder about real females. We don’t or we shouldn’t fall into one of these catagories. There is something more, something in between these two stereotypes.

Now often I hear people say that the ideal picture of a man is Christ, Christ on the cross. That is, a man who has sacrificial love. I agree, but then I wonder: How about women? Now the obvious person to look to is Mary! And yet, the more I look at Mary, the more I see of Christ himself. I see sacrifical love. A mother who suffered with her son, let her son do what he needed to b/c it was right, but loved him with all her heart to the end. I see sacrifical love again.

So my basic point is, not only should men look to Christ on the cross as an example of perfection, but women should too. I know men are called to love women as Christ loved the Church, but I also think women should too. I also think it should not only be love through sexuality, but love for all people. In general, I think being female is imitating Christ.

Any comments/ideas?

God Bless
Click to expand...
If you are looking for good female role models of women who followed Christ as you described, look at the lives and writings of women who became Catholic saints. Someone already quoted St. Teresa of Avila–what a great lady and she had a sense of humor too! Someone else mentioned St. Monica–another great example of womanhood. There are many, many more. Throughout the centuries, God has sent us saints who followed Jesus closely and imitated Him. Female saints are fabulous examples of real women at their best!

By the way, God wants you to become a saint. I can tell you that much, but you have to consult with Him for more specifics. 😉
 
Flame4 said:
As a female myself, I often wonder where to look to see what God wants me to do. Since original sin, men and women have been divided. God created us equal, however sin divided us as it divides everyone. Now we cannot understand each other.

Throughout history we have been fighting for equality. Today, I find that we still don’t have equality. Yes, legally we do, however culturally we don’t. We still have double standard for women, but we also have double standards for men. We say boys can’t cry, men must be physically strong, etc. In a way, we are weakening BOTH genders.

Then we have “girl power.” In TV shows, when the strength of a female is questioned, she will say,“Hey, I’m as tough as you are” and then that topic would be abandoned.
I write and I find it difficult to create female characters even though I am one! I find that the only image I can bring up of a woman is one who is weak and needs rescuing or one who is “manly” and tough but mean; just a man in a woman’s body. I find none of these acurate.
But it also leads me to wonder about real females. We don’t or we shouldn’t fall into one of these catagories. There is something more, something in between these two stereotypes.
Click to expand...
At the risk of angering Gloria Steinem, let me offer the following: I can’t answer all your questioning, but my personal view is that the two genders are NOT equal… meaning “interchangeable” or “the same.”

[quote=Dictionary.com]Equal: "The same as; …]
“If A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C.”
[/quote]

In my own opinion, a better term is “complementary.” A “whole” is not possible without all of its component parts; a “male” completes a “female,” just as a “female” completes a “male.” Neither entity is truly “complete” without its complementary half. Men and women need each other to fill natural, intentional vacancies in their complement.

Men play the role of providers bringing strength, support and stability; women are, by nature, nurturers bringing warmth, softness, and caring as their soothing attributes. In the metaphoric human “house,” men are the foundation, bricks, steel and lumber; women are the plaster, paint, trim and ornamentation.

Men bring home the “bacon,” women make it a meal. Men provide a house; women make it a home. Logic and reason rule men; emotion and compassion rule women.

These are simply observations from my own life experiences and observations. They might be old and out-dated, but then, so am I; (and yes, I do drive a Mercury). :rolleyes:
 
Ponyguy said:
At the risk of angering Gloria Steinem, let me offer the following: I can’t answer all your questioning, but my personal view is that the two genders are NOT equal… meaning “interchangeable” or “the same.”

In my own opinion, a better term is “complementary.” A “whole” is not possible without all of its component parts; a “male” completes a “female,” just as a “female” completes a “male.” Neither entity is truly “complete” without its complementary half. Men and women need each other to fill natural, intentional vacancies in their complement.

Men play the role of providers bringing strength, support and stability; women are, by nature, nurturers bringing warmth, softness, and caring as their soothing attributes. In the metaphoric human “house,” men are the foundation, bricks, steel and lumber; women are the plaster, paint, trim and ornamentation.

Men bring home the “bacon,” women make it a meal. Men provide a house; women make it a home. Logic and reason rule men; emotion and compassion rule women.

These are simply observations from my own life experiences and observations. They might be old and out-dated, but then, so am I; (and yes, I do drive a Mercury). :rolleyes:
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The Church herself expresses it best when she says that the two sexes are equal in dignity and complementary in natures. We can observe that women and men are equally valuable, and the Church tells us that they are equal in dignity, but we can also observe that men and women are very different. So while sometimes ‘equal’ is used to connote ‘sameness’, this would not be the appropriate interpretation of the word ‘equal’, because we need to separate inherent value of a person from their roles that may be manifested based in large part upon a different gender, different physical/emotional makeup.
Your own personal observations do tend to be reinforced when looking at large groups of men and women, so I think they generally are true both with respect to greater society but also within the microcosm of marriage. But of course we are all still individuals, and it is up to each of us to make the most of our particular abilities and talents. And some people may not fit such generalizations, nor have a desire to be married, and they shouldn’t feel incomplete or unacceptable for being the way God made them. Like my sister the tomboy, or a sensitive man, or a priest or religious person who never marries, or a person who remains single for other reasons.
 
Ponyguy said:
Logic and reason rule men; emotion and compassion rule women.
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Among most humans, apparently.

I suppose this is why I’ve considered myself a Vulcan female …
since the age of three, in fact.
My approach to life tends to be far more logical than emotional,
yet I find that logic need not rule out compassion.

Live long and prosper,

T’Sinde
 
I don’t think women are any where near equal to men, even legally. I get paid less than a man for the same job, and from what I understand of the law, its not supposed to happen, but they really can’t stop it happening!

I think its the sins of the flesh that have truly divided us, I mean, a guy sleeps with lots of ladies he’s a “stud” and people are impressed, a woman does it and well, most of the words used to describe her woudl be censored here. Subsquently, women have sought equality on the sexual front, ie. abortion et cetera, which has only provided us with further pain and furhter division between the sexes.

I think God gave us a male and a female role, Jesus as the male, Mary as the female.

As a side note, I have no problem writing strong female characters in my widdle speils, of course, what I write is so horrifically violent as delicate characters wouldn’t last. Perhaps that’s what you should try, write something about an alien invasion and man kind fighting back, with only the strong surviving. Its a cliche, but it might help you belt out something staunch for a lady.
 
vera_dicere said:
I think God gave us a male and a female role, Jesus as the male, Mary as the female.
.
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This is not correct.

Jesus is God, and so is for all humans.

Mary is NOT God, and yet is, as a saint, Mother of the Church, etc., for all humans both male and female.
 
I understand your frustration. It is difficult sometimes to find our true place in this world. As for as writing, I have been trying to write a fantasy book for a couple of years and my main protagonist is a woman who is strong, fights, etc but she must to help her people. Yet she is also vulnerable too. All women, just like all men are different and we can’t really be pigeon-holed. Some women are more logical and analytical in thinking. Others are more emotional.

I have never been the “girly” girl type. I have been a tom boy as a kid and grew up to be a nerdy geek :). We are all different so I don’t know if there is an “ideal”. However, all of us should follow Our Lord’s example and Our Lady’s.
 
A few weeks back a woman wrote regarding feeling that the Church did not make her feel equal to men. She was truly sad.
I have not seen the printed study workshop myself, but have heard that “Women of Grace” is a very good program for your Church, a group of your Catholic friends, or by yourself.
This is featured on EWTN.
This is the web site for your perusal. Hope its helpful.
lhla.org/
 
I think one of women’s greatest strengths is that women are considered morally superior to men.

This stereotype keeps getting proven false, as more and more women get into higher business careers and elected office. But overall, at the end of the day, women have this “moral superiority” thing going.

I also wouldn’t expect to find justice in this life. It’s an ideal. I think the word “equality” is easy to say, but it all depends on what aspects of gender you look at to compare against the other gender. In some cases, women really are superior to men, in others not at all. I’m not sure it’s the right ideal to try to globally apply.
 
vera_dicere said:
I don’t think women are any where near equal to men, even legally. I get paid less than a man for the same job, and from what I understand of the law, its not supposed to happen, but they really can’t stop it happening!

Be careful what info you read about this. I’m not certain about new zealand, but in the US the stat that is thrown around is that women earn 76 cents of each dollar a man earns. While this is close to true in the most basic terms, it doesn’t really tell the picture. When you factor for different careers chosen, industries chosen, length of time they work, how many hours they work, maternity leaves, danger of jobs chosen, and other factors, the difference disappears. When you factor for this, women earn somewhere between 97-99 cents that men earn.

Be careful when you hear stats, there is usually an agenda behind it.
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. . . the 76 cents number has been casually tossed around for over 20 years.

Much has changed.

As the above note indicates, when economists start comparing like to like, in serious fashion, the discrepancy starts to disappear pretty quickly.

It will be interesting, now that women are the majority of college graduates, whether or not women will care at all about egalitarian justice if they eventually make $1.10 for every $1 a man earns.

Probably not.
 
Captain_America said:
. . . the 76 cents number has been casually tossed around for over 20 years.

Much has changed.

As the above note indicates, when economists start comparing like to like, in serious fashion, the discrepancy starts to disappear pretty quickly.

It will be interesting, now that women are the majority of college graduates, whether or not women will care at all about egalitarian justice if they eventually make $1.10 for every $1 a man earns.

Probably not.
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I don’t know of any employer who would advertise any job with the salary given as “Men–$12/hr, Women–$10/hr” That would be such an easy win for an EEOC complaint. No, I think the figure must come from aggregates and statistics, not from identical jobs which actually pay less for women than men.

When I first started work, though, back in the 1970’s, my job during the training period had a base pay which was more for marrieds than singles. The reason was that married–men in this case–had a family to support. And it wasn’t illegal.
 
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