Being homosexual, celibate, but still having a partner

[atassina]

One of the requirements of a plenary indulgence is voluntarily ceased to keep or claim any attachment to sin. How many of us on this thread have our own special sin that we won’t give up?

The OP has her sin. I have mine. Both of us struggle against this sin. She is not special because she likes women. I am not special because I have my own disordered attachment(s). Just give up sin. Give it up. Relinquish all attachment to sin.

 

[IntegraCatholic]

One of the requirements of a plenary indulgence is voluntarily ceased to keep or claim any attachment to sin. How many of us on this thread have our own special sin that we won’t give up?

Having attachment to sin and being unwilling to amend that sin are two entirely different things. Attachment includes proclivity to the sin, desire for it, etc., even if someone has every intention and the will to avoid the occasions. If someone does not will to give something up or is not making a firm effort to give something up, when it is a mortal sin, it makes the person unsuitable for absolution. If it is a venial sin, it is an abuse of the Sacrament, particularly for those who continue to confess it without any purpose to amend.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

So I assume it is your belief that it is good to stereotype protestants as wishy-washy and conservatives as greedy, but bad to stereotype homosexuals as unable to control their desires?

Sensitive much?

First, I didn’t say that protestants are wishy-washy. Protestant-style thinking is usually of an either/or variety. It’s either Christ OR Mary. It’s scripture OR tradition. Catholicism recognizes and celebrates the both/and. Christ AND Mary. Scripture AND tradition. Strike one.

Second, this is a quote from an economist who stated his opinion on modern conservatism. Can you deny that it’s not true, in some fashion, that modern conservatism is about justifying selfishness. Selfishness is defined as “too much concerned with one’s own welfare or interests and having little or no concern for others; self-centered.” Greed is defined as “excessive desire for getting or having, esp. wealth; desire for more than one needs or deserves; avarise, cupidity.” They are not the same thing. One can be selfish and not greedy. Modern conservatism is based on both greed (for the corporations) and selfishness (for the rank-and-file), in my opinion. It’s about the ideology, not the persons. Strike two.

Also, I don’t understand why you want to force God to have the same views as IntegraCatholic, whose opinion was generally not shared by most of the other posters.

Actually, it has more to do with this rather extreme view of how persons cursed with same-sex attractions are to live. Integra seems to think that persons so cursed should live alone in a small cell with a bible, a rosary and a candle and not have any social life. As a person who is so cursed, I heartily DISAGREE with Integra’s opinion.

 

[Sarabande]

I didn’t read the responses, so I might be repeating. Although I believe that it would be very difficult and could set one up to temptation, it can be and has been done. I know two homosexual men who converted to Catholicism and have lived in a celibate relationship with each other for decades - at least 20/25 years if not more. They are extremely devout. I imagine that their faith and support for each other keeps them celibate.

God bless you.

 

[Cable]

"Actually, it has more to do with this rather extreme view of how persons cursed with same-sex attractions are to live. Integra seems to think that persons so cursed should live alone in a small cell with a bible, a rosary and a candle and not have any social life. As a person who is so cursed, I heartily DISAGREE with Integra’s opinion. "

Where’d it say “live alone” and have no friends. Whether or not a former-lover roommate is or isn’t an occasion of sin was debated.

IMO, Christians w/ SSA are not any more, or any less, “cursed” than anyone else.

 

[IntegraCatholic]

Also, I don’t understand why you want to force God to have the same views as IntegraCatholic, whose opinion was generally not shared by most of the other posters.

And, of course, God has the same view as the the majority of posters on the Catholic Answers forums.

 

[NoAvailableName]

And, of course, God has the same view as the the majority of posters on the Catholic Answers forums.

That is not what I said. It seems a favorite pastime of many on here (and on message boards in general) to intentionally misinterpret other people’s posts if they find them objectionable.

I am not Catholic. Obviously, I don’t think God has the same view as the majority of posters on here.

The points I made were clear:

1. She provided no basis for her assumption that God feels the same way as IntegraCatholic.
2. She is a hypocrite for complaining about homosexual stereotypes, when she herself has chosen to stereotype Protestants and conservatives in her signature.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

That is not what I said. It seems a favorite pastime of many on here (and on message boards in general) to intentionally misinterpret other people’s posts if they find them objectionable.

I am not Catholic. Obviously, I don’t think God has the same view as the majority of posters on here.

The points I made were clear:

1. She provided no basis for her assumption that God feels the same way as IntegraCatholic.
2. She is a hypocrite for complaining about homosexual stereotypes, when she herself has chosen to stereotype Protestants and conservatives in her signature.

First things first. I’m not a she. I’m a he. At least last time I checked.

Second, I spoke to modes of thinking, not persons. Is it or is it not true that, as a rule, Protestants use either/or style thinking when it comes to theological matters.

Second, just listen and read to what conservatives say. "I don’t want my (insert resource here) to go to those (place unworthy social group here). Um…that’s selfishness in action.

I used to be a protestant and a modern conservative, so I know what I’m talking about. When I became Catholic, I saw the flaws in both things and no longer believe in them.

 

[NoAvailableName]

First things first. I’m not a she. I’m a he.

Sorry for the mistake.

Second, I spoke to modes of thinking, not persons.

Conservatives have conservative thoughts. Homosexuals have homosexual thoughts. Protestants have protestant thoughts. I don’t seen an important distinction here. Furthermore, IntegraCatholic made it clear he was talking to everyone, not just homosexuals… "Living together with someone to whom a person is attracted (generally, with the opposite sex at all, in your case, with your former partner) is always a near occasion of sin generally. That is, it applies to everyone. "

From an earlier post…

I can’t see [God] accepting and loving me in spite of my imperfections

We all have our own set of imperfections. As a Christian, you are simply asked to realize desires of the flesh, whether they be lust, gluttony, sloth, or something else, are inferior to the desires of the spirit. And even when we fail, Jesus is still there for the repentant sinner.

Second, just listen and read to what conservatives say. "I don’t want my (insert resource here) to go to those (place unworthy social group here). Um…that’s selfishness in action.

Conservatives give more money than liberals. See Conservatives are more giving And they think that they, and not the government, should decide which causes their money goes to. Well done, conservatives! Jesus asked us to give of our own time and talent, not to vote for politicians who will take another person’s money, skim some off the top, and then dole it out to their constituents and own favored interests while claiming their opponents are uncharitable.

I used to be a protestant and a modern conservative, so I know what I’m talking about.

You can’t assume that all protestants and conservatives think the way you did.

 

[IntegraCatholic]

The points I made were clear:

1. She provided no basis for her assumption that God feels the same way as IntegraCatholic

Well, “no basis,” that’s stating it a bit too forcefully. The underlying way you described this, “after all, it’s not what most people on here think,” as though that has any bearing on the mind of God at all, was a non sequitur.

 

[xyzpdq2000]

The one thing that seems to be missing from this discussion is scandal, which applies regardless of whether the couple is homosexual or heterosexual. The point is that it may not matter whether the couple is actively engaged in sinful behavior. If the situation is such that a average person would believe that two people are living together as a couple and are engaging in that behavior (even if they are not), that is a problem. Someplace in the bible (I think St. Paul, but don’t quote me), there is a comment regarding abstaining from meat sacrificed to idols. The concern was not that the Christian was worshiping the idol and engaging in sin, but rather that others may others might see this and misinterpret what the Christian is doing and think that it is OK. It talks about giving up something that is lawful for the sake of others whose weaker faith might be compromised.

 

[archangel04]

Hello everyone,
I am a 24 year-old lesbian and a recent convert to the faith. Deciding to become Catholic was a difficult and wonderful process (falling in love with the Faith but also realizing I had to let go of my sexuality). Ironically the person who introduced me to Catholicism was the lesbian woman I was falling in love with. We both new that we had a choice: continue to be sexually active with one another, or commit to and follow the teachings of the Church. As hard as it is to give up the desires of the flesh, we knew by reason and faith that our only choice was to follow God through the Church’s teaching. We have both been celibate for roughly a year. We have also been living together as companions (partners if you will). I believe this may be a rare phenomenon and this situation is not something that has been addressed by any church leaders to the best of my knowledge. I did however speak to a nun who said that although we are not committing a mortal sin by living together and loving one another, we may be putting ourselves into an “occasion of sin,” meaning we could easily be tempted into sin by our situation. The thing is, I think it would be more of an occasion for sin if I did not have this woman as my partner because she constantly supports me and encourages me to resist sin. If I were alone I would be much more likely to be impure. Plus, like many people I need to be close to someone in a relationship of love, trust, and commitment. I am wondering what other thoughtful Catholics think and feel about this. Please share any comments you might have or questions. God Bless!
p.s. I have two beautiful baby morning doves that have just hatched in a nest on my porch! Cool.

Sounds to me like a roomate? or even best friend? These is nothing wrong with living with somone of the same-sex as long as not homo-sexual acts occur. But I have to agree with the nun that you can put your self in temptation. I suggest that if moving out is not an option than pray the Rosary when you have the temptations or read scripture. We all need friends to support us, especially in men, men don’t realize how importants it is to have other male Catholic friends. I wish there were more poeple like you who can let their pride go to the side in order to follow Jesus. God bless and I will say a prayer for you and your friend (see sounds better when you use that term).

 

[Vitas]

Hi Turtlehawk13 , I have a very similar situation and was wondering if i could get your advice. please write back it would be most helpful.
-vitas

 

[Vitas]

yes this can be done. i’ve ben doing it with my partner-( and I call her my partner because we share a house, bills, a business, vehicles,joys, sorrows, etc. etc. etc.-) for over 3 years. After an 8 year “homosexual” relationship together.

I know God brought us together to be sisters in Christ. We got it a little confused at first, but the Holy Spirit wouldn’t give up on us. And it is so amazing the way He worked in our hearts together and individually.

Our pastor also warned us about the near occasion of sin. Not much of an issue for two middle aged,perimenopausal, overworked, sleep deprived, financially stressed, women concerned with the well being of aging parents and demanding dogs.Probably sounds like many women you know who aren’t “swinging from the chadeliers” !! (in spite of what many want to believe, beinng gay or lesbian isn’t necessarily one continuous orgy) any way on a serious note: the occasion to sin is something to be very concerned about. Each relationship and individual is different. Also consider seriously if what isn’t an issue for one might be for the other. Remember if you love someone you consider their well being as well.

Also be aware of the possibility of scandal. No not just folks being upset and gossiping. Who really cares. But scandal in the sence of someone not fully understanding your situation, having things appear to them that you are living against church teaching and still receiving the Sacraments and then potentially causing confusion and crisis of faith for that person. YES! WE ARE OUR BROTHER"S KEEEPER.

It takes a lot of work especially for those who’ve lived openly “out” lives. Everyone is called to build the kingdom by building relationships with other believers. We who have lived openly in sin-any sin- must take on the added responsibility of making sure our repentance and the redemptive power of God is seen in our lives so as not to cause scandal. In a way its part of our reparation for sin.

Finally, we are able to continue living together -AS SISTER’s IN CHRIST- because we have the prayerful support of family, Christian friends our pastor and bishops. I don’t reccomend anyone try this on their own. --More and more we are meeting “couples” who are hearing the call of the Good Shepherd and are walking away from that “life”. Please pray for all like us who are up against many odds but are determined to come home.

OP, I keep you and your partner in my prayers, please remember me in the charity of yours.

I am trying to find out if I can do the same thing, my story is complicated and quite long so I wont delve into that, but I am honestly seeking advice woman to woman, if you really care for someone can you do this and have it not be a sin, and actually grow with that person. Is this a possible vocation… please write me back going threw a hullabalu of a choice.

 

[Simon_James]

I am a gay, Catholic man living a life of celibacy for the love of God. I am 40, and for years I have wanted what you have: a celibate partner. (I have to admit I still look!) I am glad for you that you might have found a way to avoid the loneliness that I have had to suffer, but I have accepted it as part of my cross. I think that if you can avoid impurity you should keep your friend. If you would like to read about my story, you are invited to visit www.simonjamesonline.com. I wish a life of grace and blessing to you and you partner.

 

[edwest2]

The one thing that seems to be missing from this discussion is scandal, which applies regardless of whether the couple is homosexual or heterosexual. The point is that it may not matter whether the couple is actively engaged in sinful behavior. If the situation is such that a average person would believe that two people are living together as a couple and are engaging in that behavior (even if they are not), that is a problem. Someplace in the bible (I think St. Paul, but don’t quote me), there is a comment regarding abstaining from meat sacrificed to idols. The concern was not that the Christian was worshiping the idol and engaging in sin, but rather that others may others might see this and misinterpret what the Christian is doing and think that it is OK. It talks about giving up something that is lawful for the sake of others whose weaker faith might be compromised.

That is correct. People, even adults, see what others around them are doing. And they hear the excuses: we can’t afford to get married or who gets married anymore or It’s out business how we live or we’ve got two incomes and we’re having lots of fun and sex. I think one unspoken reason is the insane decision to create No-Fault Divorce. As one married, former Navy man, told me: “It got too easy.” And another thing, if young people went through the trauma of watching their parents divorce, they might consider it a good reason not to get married even if they’ve lived with that person and trust him.

So, in the beginning, at the start of the Orgasms are Good/Babies are bad, perverted Sexual Revolution in the late 1960s, all these freethinking individuals turned to other teachers, yet they all dressed the same, had their long hair at regulation length, talked the same and most used some illegal drugs and/or alcohol. The drug being pushed the most was marijuana.

bible.cc/1_corinthians/8-10.htm

bible.cc/1_corinthians/8-11.htm

bible.cc/1_corinthians/8-12.htm

bible.cc/1_corinthians/8-13.htm

Peace,
Ed

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

That is correct. People, even adults, see what others around them are doing. And they hear the excuses: we can’t afford to get married or who gets married anymore or It’s out business how we live or we’ve got two incomes and we’re having lots of fun and sex. I think one unspoken reason is the insane decision to create No-Fault Divorce. As one married, former Navy man, told me: “It got too easy.” And another thing, if young people went through the trauma of watching their parents divorce, they might consider it a good reason not to get married even if they’ve lived with that person and trust him.

So, in the beginning, at the start of the Orgasms are Good/Babies are bad, perverted Sexual Revolution in the late 1960s, all these freethinking individuals turned to other teachers, yet they all dressed the same, had their long hair at regulation length, talked the same and most used some illegal drugs and/or alcohol. The drug being pushed the most was marijuana.

bible.cc/1_corinthians/8-10.htm

bible.cc/1_corinthians/8-11.htm

bible.cc/1_corinthians/8-12.htm

bible.cc/1_corinthians/8-13.htm

Peace,
Ed

Philosophical question, when it is cultural to be a rebel does being an anti-rebel make you a rebel?

In regards to the sin of scandal

For scandal to exist it is therefore essential and sufficient, with regard to the nature of the act and the circumstances under which it takes place, that it be of a nature to induce sin in another; consequently it is not necessary that the neighbour should actually fall into sin; and on the other hand, for scandal strictly so-called, it is not enough that a neighbour take occasion to do evil from a word or action which is not a subject of scandal and exercises no influence on his action; it must be a cause of spiritual ruin, that is of sin, consequently that is not scandal which merely dissuades the neighbour from a more perfect act, as for instance, prayer, the practice of the Evangelical virtues, the more frequent use of the sacraments, etc. Still less can that be considered scandal, which only arouses comment, indignation, horror etc., for instance blasphemy committed in the presence of a priest or of a religious; it is true that the act arouses indignation and in common parlance it is often called scandalous, but this way of speaking is inaccurate, and in strictly theological terminology it is not the sin of scandal.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13506d.htm.

 

[michelleds]

I would add to Dakota’s post that some people are assuming scandal because of their own uncharitable assumptions. according to this line of thinking, two people of the same sex can’t live together because their neighbors will assume that they are engaging in homosexual sex.

Couldn’t the same be said of two opposite sex people going out on dates? I mean, that’s the message in the media and is certainly the norm now in our society.

What about working late with an opposite sex co-worker?

Or what about the man or woman who just “looks” gay? Can he or she receive sacraments or will others assume that he or she is actively engaging in sinful behavior?

What if it’s someone that you know used to commit some sort of sexual sin? should you assume that they are still sinning in that same way when you see them partake of the Eucharist?

is it up to you personally to plumb another’s soul?

“Scandal” as Dakota points out is a technical term where it is “essential and sufficient, with regard to the nature of the act and the circumstances under which it takes place, that it be of a nature to induce sin in another” and I don’t think that inducing another to make assumptions is what is being referred to.

 

[manualman]

Don’t be discouraged by the bickering. It just happens when humans actually think about things. Maybe it’s why so many people prefer NOT to think about things!

“Near occasion of sin” is not always objectively discernable. If YOU and your best friend / roomate (sorry, but the word ‘partner’ innately is going to cause scandal) have made it through the struggles of coming to grips with God and the deep seated incompatibility between His loving plan for human sexuality and homosexual contact, then you may NOT be living in such a ‘near occasion.’ On the other hand, insistance on a special status such as ‘partner’ for your friend might imply that there is still a sexual intimacy between you, even if have lately managed the willpower to keep the clothes on. You’re going to have to figure this out for yourself. Time will be the ultimate test. If you start slipping back, repent again and THEN remove yourself from the situation. But for now, it sounds like you’re managing. Just be aware that sexual intimacy is more than genital contact. Work on getting to the point where you are happy to describe her as your ‘best friend.’ If that term doesn’t seem enough to you, you may still be more vulnerable to temptation than you think.

I’m no expert, but I tend to think we oversimplify things in life. We want to put everybody into either a ‘hetero’ bin or a ‘gay’ bin. But if the Church is right about God’s plan for human sexuality, then that says to me that people attracted to their own sex probably have a wide variety of reasons, causes and degrees in that regard. One size doesn’t fit all. I certainly see no harm in you two being close friends, supporting one another in faith and accountability and living under one roof. Just beware of creeping sexual intimacy and work at establishing a variety of friendships in your life rather than exclusively spending time with your best friend. And, of course, keep your mind open to the possibility that living together might NOT prove to be the best thing for you in the long run. Time and God’s small voice will tell which way is the way to go, if you are listening.

 

[edwest2]

There was a time when people got to know their neighbors. I certainly knew mine growing up. We knew when brother and sister were living together, or two women, related or not. Today, in the “hey everybody, I’m gay and this is my husband/boyfriend” era, and with more actors and other celebrities coming out, scandal is only increasing.

Gay Pride events are for what? To show, in public, that you are gay (LGBT) and proud of it. The leadership in the LGBT community are publicly showing what their goal is: everybody who is gay will announce they are gay. What? You’re at a social gathering or a new couple moves in next door, and you say, “Hi. I’m Ed West. Nice to meet you.” “Thanks for the welcome, Ed. I’m Jim Smith and this is my husband, Ed Brown.”

glaad.org/resources/announcingequality?gclid=COHK7Ne9obICFSGHtgodRDAA_w

Peace,
Ed